An Fw-190F Question

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An Fw-190F Question

Joined: December 15th, 2009, 1:19 am

November 14th, 2017, 12:18 am #1

I recently picked up the 1/32 Revell Fw-190F and Eagle Editions Sheet #91 for a future build. Everything seems to be in place except for some confusion over the camouflage.

Eagle Editions calls for an 83/75/76 camouflage for Chevron Triangle Green 1 of III/SG 10. Yet reading the Smithsonian title regarding the restoration of their Fw-190F the author stated it used 70/75 upper surfaces and presumably RLM76 elsewhere.

My question is was RLM70 ever applied to Fw-190Fs?
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Joined: May 19th, 2013, 1:56 pm

Wondered at that one myself.

November 14th, 2017, 12:50 am #2

I would never discount just about anything I see for late war Luftwaffe camo and paint. The flip side is don't believe everything you read either!

Comparing two different 190's to try to draw a conclusion at that time of the war is dangerous. There were several schemes, including 74/75/76, 75/83/76 and 81/82/76 that were all in use concurrently at that time, depending on the plant, batch and subtype. And tat is not even including substitutions due to wartime needs!

As for the NASM F-8, I am inclined to believe it. No real reason for it not to be 70, since it was a commonly available colour. The NASM does exceptional restorations and their research is generally excellent, so I am sure they checked the colours thoroughly. That aircraft was repainted and upgraded at least once, if not more, when in service, so I don't find it hard to believe that a late war upgrade would make use of a substitute paint colour. I have even seen a listing (Merrick?) that shows substitute combinations of colours to be used during the transition from old to new paints in late '44. This was to use up old paint stocks without reordering obsolete colours. It is quite possible that 70 was a substitute for 74 at that time.

Thanks!

Chris
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Joined: May 20th, 2013, 12:03 am

...on the other hand ...

November 14th, 2017, 1:19 am #3

I recently picked up the 1/32 Revell Fw-190F and Eagle Editions Sheet #91 for a future build. Everything seems to be in place except for some confusion over the camouflage.

Eagle Editions calls for an 83/75/76 camouflage for Chevron Triangle Green 1 of III/SG 10. Yet reading the Smithsonian title regarding the restoration of their Fw-190F the author stated it used 70/75 upper surfaces and presumably RLM76 elsewhere.

My question is was RLM70 ever applied to Fw-190Fs?
Jerry Crandall knows his stuff.

As has been said many times, no color photo,
go with what appeals to 'you' and let 'em
prove you wrong.

I just like airplanes
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Joined: May 19th, 2013, 1:56 pm

Did he disagree?

November 14th, 2017, 2:08 am #4

I would be inclined to take Mr. Crandall very seriously if he disagrees with what the NASM says. Not that any human being is infallible with this stuff, but he is as close as you will get!

Chris

PS: Just took a second look at all the posts here. Jerry and the NASM are talking about two different birds. As I said before, it is entirely possible for two planes from around the same time to be in totally different camo schemes. 75/83 seems to have been pretty common, but so were several others, plus a million exceptions to whatever rules you subscribe to!
Last edited by crcowx on November 14th, 2017, 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 27th, 2005, 7:41 pm

Reportedly, the NASM Fw 190F-8 had three separate camouflage schemes.....

November 14th, 2017, 2:32 am #5

I would never discount just about anything I see for late war Luftwaffe camo and paint. The flip side is don't believe everything you read either!

Comparing two different 190's to try to draw a conclusion at that time of the war is dangerous. There were several schemes, including 74/75/76, 75/83/76 and 81/82/76 that were all in use concurrently at that time, depending on the plant, batch and subtype. And tat is not even including substitutions due to wartime needs!

As for the NASM F-8, I am inclined to believe it. No real reason for it not to be 70, since it was a commonly available colour. The NASM does exceptional restorations and their research is generally excellent, so I am sure they checked the colours thoroughly. That aircraft was repainted and upgraded at least once, if not more, when in service, so I don't find it hard to believe that a late war upgrade would make use of a substitute paint colour. I have even seen a listing (Merrick?) that shows substitute combinations of colours to be used during the transition from old to new paints in late '44. This was to use up old paint stocks without reordering obsolete colours. It is quite possible that 70 was a substitute for 74 at that time.

Thanks!

Chris
which were discovered during the restoration process, and the museum had to choose which one to display on the completed aircraft. German paints are always such a charm to study because of their practice of using up old paints before using the newer ones, but then who really knows if that was bog-standard for all manufacturers? Some factories may have had better paint supplies since these were regional (northern and southern paint manufacturers tended to ship to the nearest factories). My guess is that they found RLM 70 on the airframe and chose that color scheme.
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Joined: May 19th, 2013, 1:56 pm

70/75/76

November 14th, 2017, 2:50 am #6

Was the final scheme on the plane and the one they restored it in. I believe it was initially built as an A-4, probably in a Mediterranean 79/76 scheme. Then rebuilt to F-8 standards in early '44.

I have to say, this was one well travelled and long lived airframe! It was done to F-8 standards in early '44 and then used in '44/'45 on the Eastern front. I am surprised it lasted that long and also that it was picked for evaluation, since it was such an old airframe. It seems to have lasted for at least two years when most such aircraft were lucky to last two months. Probably largely due to the German habit of rebuilding old aircraft.

Chris

PS: What was the third incarnation of this one?
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Joined: May 19th, 2013, 2:09 pm

A couple of observations.

November 14th, 2017, 12:59 pm #7

The NASM has restored other aircraft to a scheme that was not on the original. The most notable is the Ar 234.

Only two Fw 190s were in 79 as a topside color, and both were field painted.


The link below is to the NASM F-8 in what appears to be 74/75/76 (the green does not appear black enough to be 70). It is quite possible that as a ground attack aircraft it received a dark green (83?) application. This appears to be common on the late Fs. I cannot find anything about use of 70, but I don't have the book that the OP referred to.

https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-o ... -190-f-8r1

https://airandspace.si.edu/sites/defaul ... 00CP06.jpg
Last edited by samodeldad on November 14th, 2017, 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Steven “Modeldad” Eisenman

I really don't care, do U?

Zu Asche zu Staub
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Joined: May 19th, 2013, 2:09 pm

My understanding of the continued use of 70/71 was on the

November 14th, 2017, 1:01 pm #8

which were discovered during the restoration process, and the museum had to choose which one to display on the completed aircraft. German paints are always such a charm to study because of their practice of using up old paints before using the newer ones, but then who really knows if that was bog-standard for all manufacturers? Some factories may have had better paint supplies since these were regional (northern and southern paint manufacturers tended to ship to the nearest factories). My guess is that they found RLM 70 on the airframe and chose that color scheme.
81/82 scheme. Where old stocks of 70 could be used instead of 81 and 71 in place of 82.
Steven “Modeldad” Eisenman

I really don't care, do U?

Zu Asche zu Staub
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Joined: May 19th, 2013, 2:09 pm

Just realize you may be comparing two unrelated aircraft

November 14th, 2017, 1:26 pm #9

I recently picked up the 1/32 Revell Fw-190F and Eagle Editions Sheet #91 for a future build. Everything seems to be in place except for some confusion over the camouflage.

Eagle Editions calls for an 83/75/76 camouflage for Chevron Triangle Green 1 of III/SG 10. Yet reading the Smithsonian title regarding the restoration of their Fw-190F the author stated it used 70/75 upper surfaces and presumably RLM76 elsewhere.

My question is was RLM70 ever applied to Fw-190Fs?
I don't know the origins of the aircraft you're doing, it could be a factory F-8 or a remanufactured F-8. The aircraft at the NASM is said to be a remanufactured aircraft, so the paint used/available at the remanufacture facility could be different from what was used/available for the F-8 you are doing.

Also note that the EagleCal instruction say "Possibly 83". Which means at best Jerry believes it to have a dark green color.

BTW, the green on the NASM F-8 does not appear black-green.

Last edited by samodeldad on November 14th, 2017, 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Steven “Modeldad” Eisenman

I really don't care, do U?

Zu Asche zu Staub
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Joined: March 2nd, 2005, 5:54 pm

There were often exceptions...

November 14th, 2017, 1:37 pm #10

I recently picked up the 1/32 Revell Fw-190F and Eagle Editions Sheet #91 for a future build. Everything seems to be in place except for some confusion over the camouflage.

Eagle Editions calls for an 83/75/76 camouflage for Chevron Triangle Green 1 of III/SG 10. Yet reading the Smithsonian title regarding the restoration of their Fw-190F the author stated it used 70/75 upper surfaces and presumably RLM76 elsewhere.

My question is was RLM70 ever applied to Fw-190Fs?
...An early issue of FSM (1982, IIRC, need to dig it from the stacks), documented the in-service schemes the Smithsonian 190F (which started life as an A7) carried. It made a convincing argument for 70/75/76 as the last scheme it carried in Hungary.
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