(sigh) another dog thread. Close call today. (long) (eta)

(sigh) another dog thread. Close call today. (long) (eta)

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

April 30th, 2012, 3:02 am #1

DS went to play at a friend's house. They went next door to play in friend's neighbor's yard. Neighbor has a terrier with a bad temperament (very unpredictable, has bitten friend before).

DS was lucky. He only got a warning nip. The dog's teeth scratched his leg. If this dog wanted to, it could have done real damage. It's a breed known for ability to jump and very tenacious, dominant personality. The owner gave ds permission to play with it, and I say that was bad judgment, since her dog has bitten and scarred children before.

I'm not happy that friend's dm let the kids go somewhere else, especially to a place where the dog is known to bite kids. I feel that when my son is her guest, she's responsible for him. I don't even know the names of these ppl. I don't know what's in their home (guns? drugs? porn? convicted sexual predator?). And this dm is also a teacher at my son's cdc! Surely she should know better!

I am sure I need to say something if/when ds goes over there again. Not sure what I should say, though. Your suggestions? And she has not gotten in touch with me at all about the dog incident. DS told dh as they were leaving. Friend's dm told dh she didn't know and would have said something. I guess she thinks that now that dh knows, that's enough.

BTW, tell you how laissez-faire this teacher is. She and her dh frequently leave town for the weekend and leave ds with 75yo widowed dgm who broke her hip last year. Three years ago, after several days with his dgm and not seeing his parents, we unknowingly invited him to spend the night. It was his parents' first night back in several days. He was just 7yo. He missed them and called home several times, wanted to go home. They wouldn't let him. I knew they parented their ds much differently than we parent, but since we have the cdc in common, I just thought they would be on the same page wr2 safety and responsibility.

Ok, know what? I know what I'm going to tell her, but I'm still open to suggestions. I'm going to tell her about the time ds was in a new acquaintance's house and picked up a gun on display and asked if it was real. DH and I have told him many times he is not to touch a gun if he sees one, and he went to it like it had a magnetic grip on him. This family has told me they agree with us on guns, so I think she'll understand that my ds is too impulsive to be allowed to go to a stranger's home when he's their guest. He also has been taught better wr2 this dog. We have a dog who is pretty dog-aggressive and untrustworthy, but ds consistently makes bad judgment calls. Perhaps his judgment is not out of line with his age, but still, they're bad judgment calls, and he frequently tests our rules, and would put himself, our dog, and other ppl and their dogs in harm's way.

eta: ds says the neighbor said the dog didn't mean it. bull. I have trained, shown, and lure coursed dogs since 1990. dogs mean what they do.





Keiki's Makuahine (Keiki's Mom) 51, dh 52
Keiki: b. 2002 after 3 months bedrest
Natural conception following ZIFT/chem. pg

Olivia: b. 1999 d. 1999
28-week preemie, ptl cause unknown
Natural conception after 1 mc

ttc since 1998
Last edited by goldiescholar on April 30th, 2012, 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 29th, 2006, 10:07 am

April 30th, 2012, 7:26 am #2

about biting kids but I still would never leave the dog alone with kids because you never know what the kids could do to the dog to provoke it. Biting can often be their only line of self defence

My dog will always be with me and if I have lots of kids coming, I put the dog over to my mum's house.

You can never be too careful with dogs
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Joined: August 21st, 2006, 3:29 pm

April 30th, 2012, 2:41 pm #3

DS went to play at a friend's house. They went next door to play in friend's neighbor's yard. Neighbor has a terrier with a bad temperament (very unpredictable, has bitten friend before).

DS was lucky. He only got a warning nip. The dog's teeth scratched his leg. If this dog wanted to, it could have done real damage. It's a breed known for ability to jump and very tenacious, dominant personality. The owner gave ds permission to play with it, and I say that was bad judgment, since her dog has bitten and scarred children before.

I'm not happy that friend's dm let the kids go somewhere else, especially to a place where the dog is known to bite kids. I feel that when my son is her guest, she's responsible for him. I don't even know the names of these ppl. I don't know what's in their home (guns? drugs? porn? convicted sexual predator?). And this dm is also a teacher at my son's cdc! Surely she should know better!

I am sure I need to say something if/when ds goes over there again. Not sure what I should say, though. Your suggestions? And she has not gotten in touch with me at all about the dog incident. DS told dh as they were leaving. Friend's dm told dh she didn't know and would have said something. I guess she thinks that now that dh knows, that's enough.

BTW, tell you how laissez-faire this teacher is. She and her dh frequently leave town for the weekend and leave ds with 75yo widowed dgm who broke her hip last year. Three years ago, after several days with his dgm and not seeing his parents, we unknowingly invited him to spend the night. It was his parents' first night back in several days. He was just 7yo. He missed them and called home several times, wanted to go home. They wouldn't let him. I knew they parented their ds much differently than we parent, but since we have the cdc in common, I just thought they would be on the same page wr2 safety and responsibility.

Ok, know what? I know what I'm going to tell her, but I'm still open to suggestions. I'm going to tell her about the time ds was in a new acquaintance's house and picked up a gun on display and asked if it was real. DH and I have told him many times he is not to touch a gun if he sees one, and he went to it like it had a magnetic grip on him. This family has told me they agree with us on guns, so I think she'll understand that my ds is too impulsive to be allowed to go to a stranger's home when he's their guest. He also has been taught better wr2 this dog. We have a dog who is pretty dog-aggressive and untrustworthy, but ds consistently makes bad judgment calls. Perhaps his judgment is not out of line with his age, but still, they're bad judgment calls, and he frequently tests our rules, and would put himself, our dog, and other ppl and their dogs in harm's way.

eta: ds says the neighbor said the dog didn't mean it. bull. I have trained, shown, and lure coursed dogs since 1990. dogs mean what they do.





Keiki's Makuahine (Keiki's Mom) 51, dh 52
Keiki: b. 2002 after 3 months bedrest
Natural conception following ZIFT/chem. pg

Olivia: b. 1999 d. 1999
28-week preemie, ptl cause unknown
Natural conception after 1 mc

ttc since 1998
KM,

I'm so sorry -- thank goodness your son is OK. I really have no words of wisdom, just sort of making a mental note for the future. I mean on the one hand I was certainly wandering around on my own by 10 and going to friends' houses without necessarily letting my mom know where I was. And in the same vein my mom was (and is) pretty safety conscious but one thing I don't think she did (as far as I know, I should ask her) was check on stuff like gun ownership, something I am very conscious of being a concern. OTOH I definitely see your point about kids testing limits and being impulsive (I wonder if it would help to tell your DS what he should do rather than should not do if, e.g., he sees a gun somewhere -- I know this supposedly helps with younger kids -- so rather than don't touch a gun if he sees one, to go get an adult (or whatever you think he should do, I haven't really thought through this one, I think that is what I would tell my 5 y.o.) if he sees one)? Gee whiz, and thanks for posting about this -- I'll be interested to see what advice others can offer.

Best wishes,
Alex
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Joined: February 16th, 2006, 1:10 am

April 30th, 2012, 2:46 pm #4

DS went to play at a friend's house. They went next door to play in friend's neighbor's yard. Neighbor has a terrier with a bad temperament (very unpredictable, has bitten friend before).

DS was lucky. He only got a warning nip. The dog's teeth scratched his leg. If this dog wanted to, it could have done real damage. It's a breed known for ability to jump and very tenacious, dominant personality. The owner gave ds permission to play with it, and I say that was bad judgment, since her dog has bitten and scarred children before.

I'm not happy that friend's dm let the kids go somewhere else, especially to a place where the dog is known to bite kids. I feel that when my son is her guest, she's responsible for him. I don't even know the names of these ppl. I don't know what's in their home (guns? drugs? porn? convicted sexual predator?). And this dm is also a teacher at my son's cdc! Surely she should know better!

I am sure I need to say something if/when ds goes over there again. Not sure what I should say, though. Your suggestions? And she has not gotten in touch with me at all about the dog incident. DS told dh as they were leaving. Friend's dm told dh she didn't know and would have said something. I guess she thinks that now that dh knows, that's enough.

BTW, tell you how laissez-faire this teacher is. She and her dh frequently leave town for the weekend and leave ds with 75yo widowed dgm who broke her hip last year. Three years ago, after several days with his dgm and not seeing his parents, we unknowingly invited him to spend the night. It was his parents' first night back in several days. He was just 7yo. He missed them and called home several times, wanted to go home. They wouldn't let him. I knew they parented their ds much differently than we parent, but since we have the cdc in common, I just thought they would be on the same page wr2 safety and responsibility.

Ok, know what? I know what I'm going to tell her, but I'm still open to suggestions. I'm going to tell her about the time ds was in a new acquaintance's house and picked up a gun on display and asked if it was real. DH and I have told him many times he is not to touch a gun if he sees one, and he went to it like it had a magnetic grip on him. This family has told me they agree with us on guns, so I think she'll understand that my ds is too impulsive to be allowed to go to a stranger's home when he's their guest. He also has been taught better wr2 this dog. We have a dog who is pretty dog-aggressive and untrustworthy, but ds consistently makes bad judgment calls. Perhaps his judgment is not out of line with his age, but still, they're bad judgment calls, and he frequently tests our rules, and would put himself, our dog, and other ppl and their dogs in harm's way.

eta: ds says the neighbor said the dog didn't mean it. bull. I have trained, shown, and lure coursed dogs since 1990. dogs mean what they do.





Keiki's Makuahine (Keiki's Mom) 51, dh 52
Keiki: b. 2002 after 3 months bedrest
Natural conception following ZIFT/chem. pg

Olivia: b. 1999 d. 1999
28-week preemie, ptl cause unknown
Natural conception after 1 mc

ttc since 1998
Maybe I missed a post of yours. If I'm reading this right...

Your ds goes to a friend and next door is a family with a threatening dog and an open gun case? hmmm, I'm not sure how you can stop them from going next door because that is a pretty logical move for boys playing outside. I probably wouldn't have a problem with that, but with the bity dog, geez. Our dog was like that and my Mom couldn't let him stay (fenced) in our yard if other kids were around. He was a german shepard and would lunge at any other child that seemed to threaten any of us. Kids playing looks like a threat to dogs. However, if someone were to say something to my Mom she would get defensive because she believed she had a good handle on the dog with other kids. My Dad's hunting rifles were in the house, too, but locked in a case with bullets locked in another area---still don't know where. We kids never went hunting, so never shot a gun and never touched them in any way. I think people get defensive about having guns in their house with children, too. So, how to address it? IDK. Anything you say could sound like an attack and if ds enjoys this child, you want to protect that relationship.

Can you go with? Is ds afraid of this dog and can you just say that in a casual way? Guess I'm not much help with ideas, but your fears are legitimate. Just don't know how much you can do about it and still have ds play with them.

Good Luck!




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Joined: February 20th, 2006, 11:35 pm

April 30th, 2012, 4:43 pm #5

DS went to play at a friend's house. They went next door to play in friend's neighbor's yard. Neighbor has a terrier with a bad temperament (very unpredictable, has bitten friend before).

DS was lucky. He only got a warning nip. The dog's teeth scratched his leg. If this dog wanted to, it could have done real damage. It's a breed known for ability to jump and very tenacious, dominant personality. The owner gave ds permission to play with it, and I say that was bad judgment, since her dog has bitten and scarred children before.

I'm not happy that friend's dm let the kids go somewhere else, especially to a place where the dog is known to bite kids. I feel that when my son is her guest, she's responsible for him. I don't even know the names of these ppl. I don't know what's in their home (guns? drugs? porn? convicted sexual predator?). And this dm is also a teacher at my son's cdc! Surely she should know better!

I am sure I need to say something if/when ds goes over there again. Not sure what I should say, though. Your suggestions? And she has not gotten in touch with me at all about the dog incident. DS told dh as they were leaving. Friend's dm told dh she didn't know and would have said something. I guess she thinks that now that dh knows, that's enough.

BTW, tell you how laissez-faire this teacher is. She and her dh frequently leave town for the weekend and leave ds with 75yo widowed dgm who broke her hip last year. Three years ago, after several days with his dgm and not seeing his parents, we unknowingly invited him to spend the night. It was his parents' first night back in several days. He was just 7yo. He missed them and called home several times, wanted to go home. They wouldn't let him. I knew they parented their ds much differently than we parent, but since we have the cdc in common, I just thought they would be on the same page wr2 safety and responsibility.

Ok, know what? I know what I'm going to tell her, but I'm still open to suggestions. I'm going to tell her about the time ds was in a new acquaintance's house and picked up a gun on display and asked if it was real. DH and I have told him many times he is not to touch a gun if he sees one, and he went to it like it had a magnetic grip on him. This family has told me they agree with us on guns, so I think she'll understand that my ds is too impulsive to be allowed to go to a stranger's home when he's their guest. He also has been taught better wr2 this dog. We have a dog who is pretty dog-aggressive and untrustworthy, but ds consistently makes bad judgment calls. Perhaps his judgment is not out of line with his age, but still, they're bad judgment calls, and he frequently tests our rules, and would put himself, our dog, and other ppl and their dogs in harm's way.

eta: ds says the neighbor said the dog didn't mean it. bull. I have trained, shown, and lure coursed dogs since 1990. dogs mean what they do.





Keiki's Makuahine (Keiki's Mom) 51, dh 52
Keiki: b. 2002 after 3 months bedrest
Natural conception following ZIFT/chem. pg

Olivia: b. 1999 d. 1999
28-week preemie, ptl cause unknown
Natural conception after 1 mc

ttc since 1998
Oh poor K! I'm glad that he didn't get hurt worse. That is very scary.

I guess I'd ask the parents of playdate to let me know before they were going to send DS to someone else's house and tell them specifically about DS's impusulsiveness. I'd also say no more to letting him go to that particular neighbor's house with the dog.

When DS has had playdates at our house, they sometimes play outside with the neighbor boys, even in the next-door neighbors' front and backyard (we have the type of neighborhood where kids run from yard to yard), but I'd never let them go into my neighbors' houses, even though I know my neighbors pretty well. Not just because I wouldn't want a child on my watch to go somewhere I wasn't, but probably even more for my neighbors' sake -- it seems rude to let a child they don't know come over and then they need to feel responsible for him. I'd probably tell them not to go across the street to the yard of of our friends who do have a dog (a nice one that is not agressive toward people) just because I don't know how their parents would feel, but that has never come up.

The parents of your DS's friend don't seem very attentive, and that might give me pause. DS does have one friend whose parents seem VERY lax about what their kids are exposed to and the mother is just a bit flaky (father seems okay). Their one boy is DS's best buddy and while I appreciate how much he loves DS, I won't just yet let DS spend the night there because of concern for what they might watch on tv or youtube or the internet.

I have to say that where we live it doesn't seem common to ask other parents whether they have guns in the house (perhaps because few people seem to own guns?) I think your post brings up a good point, though, because I would want to know if parents kept a gun in their house. I think my older son would probably be too scared of one if he saw it, but younger DS is all about guns and he doesn't understand at all that guns can really hurt people. Then again, he doesn't go to playdates without me there just yet.

When we had dogs I ALWAYS told parents we had the dogs, plus let them know we'd keep the dogs in the basement or in the backyard away from the kids. (One of our dogs had a damaged psyche and got nervous around people it didn't know; the other was pure sweetheart but somewhat neurotic and always looking for attention.)

Anyway, I think you're fine telling the parents about your concerns with DS's impulsiveness. Maybe just keep their playdates at your house for now?

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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

April 30th, 2012, 6:56 pm #6

about biting kids but I still would never leave the dog alone with kids because you never know what the kids could do to the dog to provoke it. Biting can often be their only line of self defence

My dog will always be with me and if I have lots of kids coming, I put the dog over to my mum's house.

You can never be too careful with dogs
Too many ppl here treat dogs like they're kids. They're animals, fgs.




Keiki's Makuahine (Keiki's Mom) 51, dh 52
Keiki: b. 2002 after 3 months bedrest
Natural conception following ZIFT/chem. pg

Olivia: b. 1999 d. 1999
28-week preemie, ptl cause unknown
Natural conception after 1 mc

ttc since 1998
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

April 30th, 2012, 7:01 pm #7

KM,

I'm so sorry -- thank goodness your son is OK. I really have no words of wisdom, just sort of making a mental note for the future. I mean on the one hand I was certainly wandering around on my own by 10 and going to friends' houses without necessarily letting my mom know where I was. And in the same vein my mom was (and is) pretty safety conscious but one thing I don't think she did (as far as I know, I should ask her) was check on stuff like gun ownership, something I am very conscious of being a concern. OTOH I definitely see your point about kids testing limits and being impulsive (I wonder if it would help to tell your DS what he should do rather than should not do if, e.g., he sees a gun somewhere -- I know this supposedly helps with younger kids -- so rather than don't touch a gun if he sees one, to go get an adult (or whatever you think he should do, I haven't really thought through this one, I think that is what I would tell my 5 y.o.) if he sees one)? Gee whiz, and thanks for posting about this -- I'll be interested to see what advice others can offer.

Best wishes,
Alex
and he didn't do it! The time he picked up the gun, I was in the room, but I don't want to kid myself into thinking that this made it ok in his mind. He picked up the gun and asked if it was real (it was an antique). He could have asked without touching. He could have asked me for permission. He must have known he would not get permission b/c when he was at a scout jamboree last fall, df and I did not give permission for him to shoot on the rifle range.

I do let him play in homes where the parents tell me that they carefully lock up the guns, if I know those parents well enough to trust them.

The dog issue is separate, but even more common. Dogs usually aren't kept locked away, and I've seen plenty of ppl let their dogs come running aggressively toward my dogs in the past. Because of my experience with training, I know what to look for, but most ppl don't want to believe their dogs have animal impulses. They get insulted, like Omissy said.




Keiki's Makuahine (Keiki's Mom) 51, dh 52
Keiki: b. 2002 after 3 months bedrest
Natural conception following ZIFT/chem. pg

Olivia: b. 1999 d. 1999
28-week preemie, ptl cause unknown
Natural conception after 1 mc

ttc since 1998
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

April 30th, 2012, 7:05 pm #8

Maybe I missed a post of yours. If I'm reading this right...

Your ds goes to a friend and next door is a family with a threatening dog and an open gun case? hmmm, I'm not sure how you can stop them from going next door because that is a pretty logical move for boys playing outside. I probably wouldn't have a problem with that, but with the bity dog, geez. Our dog was like that and my Mom couldn't let him stay (fenced) in our yard if other kids were around. He was a german shepard and would lunge at any other child that seemed to threaten any of us. Kids playing looks like a threat to dogs. However, if someone were to say something to my Mom she would get defensive because she believed she had a good handle on the dog with other kids. My Dad's hunting rifles were in the house, too, but locked in a case with bullets locked in another area---still don't know where. We kids never went hunting, so never shot a gun and never touched them in any way. I think people get defensive about having guns in their house with children, too. So, how to address it? IDK. Anything you say could sound like an attack and if ds enjoys this child, you want to protect that relationship.

Can you go with? Is ds afraid of this dog and can you just say that in a casual way? Guess I'm not much help with ideas, but your fears are legitimate. Just don't know how much you can do about it and still have ds play with them.

Good Luck!



but the gun incident showed me that ds immediately forgets/disregards our rules.

He did have permission to play with the dog, but the dog owner is a fool, and ds wasn't capable of knowing that.

Well, I'm just going to have to tell parents that my son is not allowed to go to homes I don't know yet. And I'm just going to have to drum that into his head, too. Thanks for sharing.




Keiki's Makuahine (Keiki's Mom) 51, dh 52
Keiki: b. 2002 after 3 months bedrest
Natural conception following ZIFT/chem. pg

Olivia: b. 1999 d. 1999
28-week preemie, ptl cause unknown
Natural conception after 1 mc

ttc since 1998
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

April 30th, 2012, 7:08 pm #9

Oh poor K! I'm glad that he didn't get hurt worse. That is very scary.

I guess I'd ask the parents of playdate to let me know before they were going to send DS to someone else's house and tell them specifically about DS's impusulsiveness. I'd also say no more to letting him go to that particular neighbor's house with the dog.

When DS has had playdates at our house, they sometimes play outside with the neighbor boys, even in the next-door neighbors' front and backyard (we have the type of neighborhood where kids run from yard to yard), but I'd never let them go into my neighbors' houses, even though I know my neighbors pretty well. Not just because I wouldn't want a child on my watch to go somewhere I wasn't, but probably even more for my neighbors' sake -- it seems rude to let a child they don't know come over and then they need to feel responsible for him. I'd probably tell them not to go across the street to the yard of of our friends who do have a dog (a nice one that is not agressive toward people) just because I don't know how their parents would feel, but that has never come up.

The parents of your DS's friend don't seem very attentive, and that might give me pause. DS does have one friend whose parents seem VERY lax about what their kids are exposed to and the mother is just a bit flaky (father seems okay). Their one boy is DS's best buddy and while I appreciate how much he loves DS, I won't just yet let DS spend the night there because of concern for what they might watch on tv or youtube or the internet.

I have to say that where we live it doesn't seem common to ask other parents whether they have guns in the house (perhaps because few people seem to own guns?) I think your post brings up a good point, though, because I would want to know if parents kept a gun in their house. I think my older son would probably be too scared of one if he saw it, but younger DS is all about guns and he doesn't understand at all that guns can really hurt people. Then again, he doesn't go to playdates without me there just yet.

When we had dogs I ALWAYS told parents we had the dogs, plus let them know we'd keep the dogs in the basement or in the backyard away from the kids. (One of our dogs had a damaged psyche and got nervous around people it didn't know; the other was pure sweetheart but somewhat neurotic and always looking for attention.)

Anyway, I think you're fine telling the parents about your concerns with DS's impulsiveness. Maybe just keep their playdates at your house for now?
I'd hate to not let him visit his friends' houses. I believe I'll coach him on an excuse for not going to a neighbor's house. But I imagine his willpower will be weak. You've seen how excited he can get when he's playing! (rolling eyes)




Keiki's Makuahine (Keiki's Mom) 51, dh 52
Keiki: b. 2002 after 3 months bedrest
Natural conception following ZIFT/chem. pg

Olivia: b. 1999 d. 1999
28-week preemie, ptl cause unknown
Natural conception after 1 mc

ttc since 1998
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Joined: May 3rd, 2005, 4:45 pm

April 30th, 2012, 8:23 pm #10

DS went to play at a friend's house. They went next door to play in friend's neighbor's yard. Neighbor has a terrier with a bad temperament (very unpredictable, has bitten friend before).

DS was lucky. He only got a warning nip. The dog's teeth scratched his leg. If this dog wanted to, it could have done real damage. It's a breed known for ability to jump and very tenacious, dominant personality. The owner gave ds permission to play with it, and I say that was bad judgment, since her dog has bitten and scarred children before.

I'm not happy that friend's dm let the kids go somewhere else, especially to a place where the dog is known to bite kids. I feel that when my son is her guest, she's responsible for him. I don't even know the names of these ppl. I don't know what's in their home (guns? drugs? porn? convicted sexual predator?). And this dm is also a teacher at my son's cdc! Surely she should know better!

I am sure I need to say something if/when ds goes over there again. Not sure what I should say, though. Your suggestions? And she has not gotten in touch with me at all about the dog incident. DS told dh as they were leaving. Friend's dm told dh she didn't know and would have said something. I guess she thinks that now that dh knows, that's enough.

BTW, tell you how laissez-faire this teacher is. She and her dh frequently leave town for the weekend and leave ds with 75yo widowed dgm who broke her hip last year. Three years ago, after several days with his dgm and not seeing his parents, we unknowingly invited him to spend the night. It was his parents' first night back in several days. He was just 7yo. He missed them and called home several times, wanted to go home. They wouldn't let him. I knew they parented their ds much differently than we parent, but since we have the cdc in common, I just thought they would be on the same page wr2 safety and responsibility.

Ok, know what? I know what I'm going to tell her, but I'm still open to suggestions. I'm going to tell her about the time ds was in a new acquaintance's house and picked up a gun on display and asked if it was real. DH and I have told him many times he is not to touch a gun if he sees one, and he went to it like it had a magnetic grip on him. This family has told me they agree with us on guns, so I think she'll understand that my ds is too impulsive to be allowed to go to a stranger's home when he's their guest. He also has been taught better wr2 this dog. We have a dog who is pretty dog-aggressive and untrustworthy, but ds consistently makes bad judgment calls. Perhaps his judgment is not out of line with his age, but still, they're bad judgment calls, and he frequently tests our rules, and would put himself, our dog, and other ppl and their dogs in harm's way.

eta: ds says the neighbor said the dog didn't mean it. bull. I have trained, shown, and lure coursed dogs since 1990. dogs mean what they do.





Keiki's Makuahine (Keiki's Mom) 51, dh 52
Keiki: b. 2002 after 3 months bedrest
Natural conception following ZIFT/chem. pg

Olivia: b. 1999 d. 1999
28-week preemie, ptl cause unknown
Natural conception after 1 mc

ttc since 1998
but I did want to say I have kinda flipped my opinion on dogs. I was definitely on the dogs-are-people-too opinion until my DS received a duck for his 7th birthday and the neighbor's dog ran out of the bushes and grabbed it right out of his hand and ran off with it. Needless to say, we did not find that duck again.
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