Any good ideas to stop DS from talking back disrespectfully? (m)

Any good ideas to stop DS from talking back disrespectfully? (m)

cy2
Joined: February 16th, 2006, 6:45 pm

February 29th, 2012, 3:01 pm #1

Seems to have become the default whenever DS (10 1/3 yrs)isn't happy, which is pretty frequent nowadays.

I even got an email that he's talked back to his teacher a couple times. I need to coordinate with DH and school, but I'm thinking that I should have them send him home if he disrespects his teacher.

cy
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Joined: August 21st, 2006, 3:29 pm

February 29th, 2012, 3:28 pm #2

Cy,

I have not BTDT (DS is only 5 and while he does sometimes disrespect in his case I think it is mostly "in the moment" and not necessarily knowing what is "disrespectful" speech versus not. DH exacerbates this (not knowing) by talking disrespectfully to me, ostensible "in fun" but I am trying to get him (DH) to understand that it is not cute -- he has done it a long time and I have bugged him about it a long time but clearly to no effect -- and not OK to teach DS through observation. But I digress!).

Anyway, another book I read and really liked and have (already) had some success with for DS is "Have a New Kid by Friday." I forget who wrote it but the title is unusual enough I don't think you'll have trouble tracking it down? Basically it argues that you should withhold (semi-) special privileges if you're not getting the behavior you want, i.e., no we cannot go to the mall (or whatever) because you spoke to me disrespectfully earlier and that is not OK and I'm not going to do nice things for/with you if you don't follow house rules (treat me respectfully, etc.). It really moves away from the "instant consequences" paradigm and I have to say I have had good results with its approach the few times I have applied it to DS.

A nice thing about this approach is you do not necessarily have to get others on board with you (beyond a basic point). You can for example just revoke privileges even if you only find out after the fact that DS was disrespectful at school or whatever.

FWIW.

Best wishes,
Alex
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Joined: September 4th, 2004, 1:08 am

February 29th, 2012, 7:33 pm #3

Seems to have become the default whenever DS (10 1/3 yrs)isn't happy, which is pretty frequent nowadays.

I even got an email that he's talked back to his teacher a couple times. I need to coordinate with DH and school, but I'm thinking that I should have them send him home if he disrespects his teacher.

cy
My 10 y/o has just started doing this as well. I send him to his room for 10 minutes, maybe longer depending on the level of sassiness. Regarding the teacher, I would hope they would deal with it at school. Hopefully it is just a stage and possibly some boundary testing.
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Joined: December 29th, 2006, 10:07 am

February 29th, 2012, 8:21 pm #4

Seems to have become the default whenever DS (10 1/3 yrs)isn't happy, which is pretty frequent nowadays.

I even got an email that he's talked back to his teacher a couple times. I need to coordinate with DH and school, but I'm thinking that I should have them send him home if he disrespects his teacher.

cy
and I am trying to reign it in by withdrawing treats (like none of your favourite programmes or your favourite pudding)

I was shocked when he was disrespectful to my friend who was doing the nursery run (he told her "I don't have to go when you tell me so".) Thankfully, she put him in his place.
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Joined: August 30th, 2006, 9:39 pm

February 29th, 2012, 11:21 pm #5

Oh, both Mo & Cy, my heart goes out to you.

"Disrespectful" behavior can mean very different things at different ages, though.
Cy, I haven't btdt yet, but I'm not sure that sending him home is the best first solution. If there is something else going on that is bugging him, then sending him home doesn't really fix what else is going on (at school? with peers? with teacher?) and then becomes potentially reinforcing -- act out, get a free vacation day! With mom!

Mo, at 4 "disrepectful" is a normal process of differentiating oneself, testing boundaries, seeing if people really mean no when they say no. My DH always compared this age to his family dog, who always tested to see if today! was the day that begging from the table would magically be allowed. Every. day.

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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

February 29th, 2012, 11:39 pm #6

Seems to have become the default whenever DS (10 1/3 yrs)isn't happy, which is pretty frequent nowadays.

I even got an email that he's talked back to his teacher a couple times. I need to coordinate with DH and school, but I'm thinking that I should have them send him home if he disrespects his teacher.

cy
that could be a reward.

Do communicate with the school. Are they willing to offer some sort of "carrot" for well-behaved kids? For instance, do they have special after-school parties or even in-school parties that kids must earn?

Since disrespectfulness is his default mode when he's not happy, does he actually know what tones and words are better alternatives? It seems like this is something some kids have to keep re-learning as they grow up.

I'm not sure whether to encourage you to reinforce school discipline or not. I think that L&L has said that school should discipline school problems, and family should discipline home problems. Of course, home and family need to agree as much as possible. If you were to react indignantly and say, "How dare that teacher accuse my darling ds of being disrespectful," that would not be affirming the school's policies and values. (Nor would you ever do that.) But affirming is not the same as enforcing. The school surely has their own consequences, and I think it might be enough to let them handle it, at least for now. Naturally, if it comes to something like Oppositional Defiance Disorder, that's a whole different ballgame, and I don't know how families and schools work together with that.




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Joined: July 7th, 2009, 1:19 pm

March 1st, 2012, 3:15 am #7

Seems to have become the default whenever DS (10 1/3 yrs)isn't happy, which is pretty frequent nowadays.

I even got an email that he's talked back to his teacher a couple times. I need to coordinate with DH and school, but I'm thinking that I should have them send him home if he disrespects his teacher.

cy
if he might think he's being cute or silly as in some sarcasms? I would want to know the specifics before trying to figure out a solution. What exactly is he saying back to you and the teacher? Was it bad words or more tone of voice?

I think the kids are copying what they see on TV - some of the shows have lots of sarcasm and tones they they are using inappropriately. I've limited some of the shows (even on Disney Channel for this reason) that DD likes to watch. I even explained to her that it's a a show for TV it is for entertainment and not to be used in real life. I'm not sure if this is DS's case but I just thought I would mention to you.

DD knows what is acceptable "talk" and what is not... all I have to do is give her a "look" - now and and she realizes and stops.

I don't think I would have him sent home from school as might be viewed as a reward by DS and be used as a way to get out of school - and other issues with that, missing school work, making more "work" for you and then DS in the long run. Unless that is the school's policy?

Another thought - is he hungry or tired during the times this has occurred? I know DD and I have had some bad moments only to find out later that she realized she had not eaten was very tired .... (I'm that way too when I'm starving, tired and cranky!) Sometimes she does not express that she is tired, hungry or whatever and starts to demand things and not in a nice way. I sometimes need to give her reminders on how to politely ask for things. I have her rephrase whatever... Might be something to explore with DS?

Hugs ---
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cy2
Joined: February 16th, 2006, 6:45 pm

March 1st, 2012, 9:07 am #8

Cy,

I have not BTDT (DS is only 5 and while he does sometimes disrespect in his case I think it is mostly "in the moment" and not necessarily knowing what is "disrespectful" speech versus not. DH exacerbates this (not knowing) by talking disrespectfully to me, ostensible "in fun" but I am trying to get him (DH) to understand that it is not cute -- he has done it a long time and I have bugged him about it a long time but clearly to no effect -- and not OK to teach DS through observation. But I digress!).

Anyway, another book I read and really liked and have (already) had some success with for DS is "Have a New Kid by Friday." I forget who wrote it but the title is unusual enough I don't think you'll have trouble tracking it down? Basically it argues that you should withhold (semi-) special privileges if you're not getting the behavior you want, i.e., no we cannot go to the mall (or whatever) because you spoke to me disrespectfully earlier and that is not OK and I'm not going to do nice things for/with you if you don't follow house rules (treat me respectfully, etc.). It really moves away from the "instant consequences" paradigm and I have to say I have had good results with its approach the few times I have applied it to DS.

A nice thing about this approach is you do not necessarily have to get others on board with you (beyond a basic point). You can for example just revoke privileges even if you only find out after the fact that DS was disrespectful at school or whatever.

FWIW.

Best wishes,
Alex
Don't Shoot the Dog book. I liked some of the things it said. Thank you for giving me the specific pointer regarding permission to have a delayed consequence. I don't think I would've remembered that one. I may need to check it out again. . .

I can see where not having to get everyone to support this is easier than trying to get DH to agree. Over the last couple days I've gotten some nice cooperation from DH to be the "enforcer" (Thank you Don't Shoot the Dog!).

Instead of giving DS a whole extra set of chances after I've repeated myself at least 4 or 5 times, DH is cutting off the arguments and excuses and telling DS, "Just listen to your Mom and do whatever she says the way she wants you to do it." Voila, no triangulation and setting up more fights between DS and me or DH and me. I have to remember to reinforce that behavior so that DH becomes my "muscle" instead of another complication.

Thanks for the great suggestions! I'm buying my own copy of Don't Shoot the Dog and trying to remember it's a better way to get animals (including people) to actively do what I'd like them to do.
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cy2
Joined: February 16th, 2006, 6:45 pm

March 1st, 2012, 10:50 am #9

My 10 y/o has just started doing this as well. I send him to his room for 10 minutes, maybe longer depending on the level of sassiness. Regarding the teacher, I would hope they would deal with it at school. Hopefully it is just a stage and possibly some boundary testing.
parents have been complaining about the sassy/uncooperative attitudes they've been subjected to when the child turned 9 or 10.

I think this is normal behavior for this age, but in DS's case, we're also dealing with a huge impulse control issue. So far, if he catches himself and immediately apologizes AND quits from escalating, I have given DS other chances. Unfortunately with me he gets quite oppositional and can't help himself when he starts escalating into a full scale battle.

For example, if I tell him something repeatedly I usually end up raising my voice. He gets irritated and yells. Then he can easily proceed to splashing water all over the bathroom (if I'm telling him to hurry out of the shower) or deteriorating into trash talking with appropriate pauses for bad words which he cleverly changes (F'ing for the real word, cram for crap, etc.) or sometimes he just goes berserk and slams things or throws things or starts doing things that drive me nuts like walk along the back of our sofas, throw stuff on the floor, etc.

That's why thank goodness DH's relatively new role as enforcer has reduced the need for DS to conflict with me. When DS starts getting inappropriate, DH just instructs DS to do what I say. In the past DH would unwittingly fall into DS' trap and I'd get grief when DS would run to DH because he knew that DH was a softy and wouldn't back me up. Now the arguments fade even before they start.
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cy2
Joined: February 16th, 2006, 6:45 pm

March 1st, 2012, 11:04 am #10

Oh, both Mo & Cy, my heart goes out to you.

"Disrespectful" behavior can mean very different things at different ages, though.
Cy, I haven't btdt yet, but I'm not sure that sending him home is the best first solution. If there is something else going on that is bugging him, then sending him home doesn't really fix what else is going on (at school? with peers? with teacher?) and then becomes potentially reinforcing -- act out, get a free vacation day! With mom!

Mo, at 4 "disrepectful" is a normal process of differentiating oneself, testing boundaries, seeing if people really mean no when they say no. My DH always compared this age to his family dog, who always tested to see if today! was the day that begging from the table would magically be allowed. Every. day.
At 4, DS is probably learning how to exert his limits on others. Also there isn't as much disrespect just to infuriate you. He's literally like a scientist, trying on behaviors.

At 10, throwing tantrums, cussing, deliberately breaking things, slamming things around, that is really out of control 3 year old behavior with a better vocabulary. It's frustrating because DS can control his behavior when he's with others and not out to bug me. In fact, I get huge compliments about how thoughtful and sweet and proactive he is. Then it's like a switch goes off with me and he becomes a truly awful person toward me.

Also, the negative behavior becomes habitualized and it's even harder to break that cycle. So what started as bad behavior toward me has become a habitual response to someone who irritates him and now he's disrespecting the teacher.

Coming home is not a reward at all. DH makes DS stay in his room and sit on the bed without anything to do except think about how boring it is. He comes out only to eat and use the bathroom. On the other hand, all his friends are at school. Since it's a fairly expensive place, most of the learning is activity based and they have a lot of fun things to do.

Plus, DS is super sensitive to peer opinion. Being sent home for disrespect would be a big deal that he would want to avoid. He'd feel that it was unfair since other kids are disrespectful to the teacher (We know that this one isn't liked by the class), but it would definitely let him know that DH and I think this is very serious. He hates to miss school, so keeping him home and dinging his reputation is definitely something he wants to avoid.

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