Cons of NON MESH Repair!

Joined: January 13th, 2013, 7:42 pm

January 19th, 2013, 11:31 pm #11

wow! great reply jeff.osu!! thanks so much for that insight! I totally agree with all of it. You wouldn't happen to know of a extremely skilled surgeon in Las Vegas?? I have met with one who was referred and he seemed good, but it's really hard to tell. How would you say you go about finding a very skilled surgeon in hernia repair? Every place I call and ask if Dr. "So and So" is a hernia specialit they all answer, "well he is a general surgeon and all general surgeons specialize in hernia repair" Sick of hearing that! lol....
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Joined: January 13th, 2013, 7:42 pm

January 19th, 2013, 11:38 pm #12

@at Jess osu.....just realized you went to Peterson here in Vegas. I would go to him but I have insurance and to pay the 5k is a hard pill to swallow. Now I know 5k to have no mesh and no problems would make sense, but the more I read I am understanding that non mesh still can have the chronic pain problems, but it's just barely seen cause the procedure is barely done. Also my thought is cause recurrence is higher with non mesh(even though Peterson claims his recurrence levels are extremely low) what if in 5-10 years the hernia comes back.. then what?? Pay the money again assuming Peterson or another suture doc is still around. probably then I would have to just bite the bullet and do the mesh, so why not now I guess....but peterson is a very skilled surgeon and that alone is almsot worth the 5k...... but any suggestions jeff_osu?????

eddie
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jeff_osu
jeff_osu

January 20th, 2013, 2:34 am #13

Eddie,
It was hard for me to pay out of pocket considering I had insurance, but if I had gone with a lap. surgery with insurance I would still be paying thousands. The insurance covering 0% of 6,000 or covering 80% of 15,000 resulted in a difference of $3,000. I figured that is a small price to pay for a properly done hernia repair. Hopefully, my reasoning proves sound, and I can certainly understand wanting to pay as little as possible. Mine was more because it was a bilateral repair as well.

Here is a good place to start looking for a surgeon: http://americanherniasociety.org/find-a ... pecialist/
but you will largely have to just look around. I don't know of any in Las Vegas other than the surgeon I visited. Dr. Brown in California has been highly recommended to me as well as Dr. Billings in Washington. I spoke with Dr. Brown, he seems like a good guy. The patron of this board, Dr. Goodyear, is certainly highly-regarded. I haven't heard of any hernia specialists to steer AWAY from really. It's hard to sort through everything because there is so much marketing and conflicting statements, and then there are people who seem to be mentally disturbed that constantly post nonsensical information on all the boards. For legal reasons, I would stay in the US (unless you're going to the Shouldice clinic). If a surgeon in Europe botches it, your legal recourse is muddled.

If you go with mesh, I would steer away from the heavy stuff. Ask the surgeon what he is going to do about mesh contraction. It WILL contract to some degree over time. How is he going to tack it onto the body?

The bummer that most people seem to gloss over is that our bodies are forever altered by this. We can never slip or stumble for fear of a recurrence. I've asked myself what then as well. If my repair does fail, it will be worse than before. However, I just wasn't willing to take the chance with mesh. I wouldn't look at this as a decision that needs to be based on money, but a decision that is based on your future. I would bet that anybody experiencing severe, disabling PHPS would happily throw all the money they had at somebody who could fix it for them.
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Joined: March 3rd, 2007, 6:33 pm

January 21st, 2013, 10:09 pm #14

this last post was by me, forgot to log in and put my name...thanks! (and to RFE who is Howie Greene??, definitely not him)

eddie
I can assure you all, RFE is NOT Howie. RFE is a real past-patient of mine. Howie never was.
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Joined: January 31st, 2013, 5:11 pm

January 31st, 2013, 5:13 pm #15

Eddie,
It was hard for me to pay out of pocket considering I had insurance, but if I had gone with a lap. surgery with insurance I would still be paying thousands. The insurance covering 0% of 6,000 or covering 80% of 15,000 resulted in a difference of $3,000. I figured that is a small price to pay for a properly done hernia repair. Hopefully, my reasoning proves sound, and I can certainly understand wanting to pay as little as possible. Mine was more because it was a bilateral repair as well.

Here is a good place to start looking for a surgeon: http://americanherniasociety.org/find-a ... pecialist/
but you will largely have to just look around. I don't know of any in Las Vegas other than the surgeon I visited. Dr. Brown in California has been highly recommended to me as well as Dr. Billings in Washington. I spoke with Dr. Brown, he seems like a good guy. The patron of this board, Dr. Goodyear, is certainly highly-regarded. I haven't heard of any hernia specialists to steer AWAY from really. It's hard to sort through everything because there is so much marketing and conflicting statements, and then there are people who seem to be mentally disturbed that constantly post nonsensical information on all the boards. For legal reasons, I would stay in the US (unless you're going to the Shouldice clinic). If a surgeon in Europe botches it, your legal recourse is muddled.

If you go with mesh, I would steer away from the heavy stuff. Ask the surgeon what he is going to do about mesh contraction. It WILL contract to some degree over time. How is he going to tack it onto the body?

The bummer that most people seem to gloss over is that our bodies are forever altered by this. We can never slip or stumble for fear of a recurrence. I've asked myself what then as well. If my repair does fail, it will be worse than before. However, I just wasn't willing to take the chance with mesh. I wouldn't look at this as a decision that needs to be based on money, but a decision that is based on your future. I would bet that anybody experiencing severe, disabling PHPS would happily throw all the money they had at somebody who could fix it for them.
Hi Jeff,

thanks for sharing your experience. I am also considering Dr. Petersen. How is your recovery going now, 4 weeks or so after your surgery? , I hope it's going well and you're feeling better, I look forward to hearing back from you, thanks in advance~
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jeff_osu
jeff_osu

February 2nd, 2013, 8:50 am #16

I can assure you all, RFE is NOT Howie. RFE is a real past-patient of mine. Howie never was.
I think I am 6 weeks postop now. For the first month, it almost feels like it didnt work, but then everything starts feeling great in a hurry. I can sit at my desk for a full work day now without the pinched nerves (preop). This was my first and hopefully only surgery. No way around it, the first 2 weeks are rough, the next two a little less rough, and then at a month i felt 90% normal. I still get what feels like a pinch on my vas deferens high up in the canal, but it is intermittent and the frequency is decreasing. It is mild and brief. It is usually caused by me bending too much at the waist. Again, I hesitate to say I am Scot free until I am 3 months postop or more, but I don't currently have any reason to worry. The recovery is going exactly like he said it would, and mine was bilateral which I imagine is a little rougher than a single hernia.
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jeff_osu
jeff_osu

February 2nd, 2013, 9:01 am #17

Since I seem to be on the tail end of my hernia fiasco, I don't have any personal reason to post here so I may not see replies directed at me. Feel free to email me, and good luck!
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Joined: September 25th, 2013, 3:03 am

September 25th, 2013, 3:09 am #18

alright people, all we hear and read about is all the complications of hernia mesh repair. It scares all of us into having the surgery if you do any bit of research. But somehow 95% of all surgeries are done using mesh (might be why we hear most of the horror stories with mesh) Now what I want to know is what are the cons, disadvantages of NOT using mesh. I live in Vegas and could easily use Peterson to do a non mesh repair(although it would cost be 5k!) He, along with many others, state how not using mesh has almost 0% chance of chronic pain. Now if that was truly the case then why are most all surgeons using mesh!!??? From my research it seemed recurrence was the problem with a non mesh repair but Peterson claims to have lower recurrence levels than most mesh surgeons. So what does everyone think? Lets play devils advocate and bash non mesh repair and put mesh repair on a pedestal, lol! But seriously the cons to a non mesh repair???..............
Hello All, I myself was scheduled for a plastic mesh hernia surgery on 9/5/13. But, after reading stories of surgery gone wrong and of mesh rejections years and years down the road I started looking for a no-mesh option. When I started looking for a "no-mesh" solution to my inguinal hernia I found 3 USA doctors. Dr. Tomas in Florida, Dr Parvez in Fresno Calif (who took 3 weeks to return my 2 calls and 1 email to his office. By the time he returned my call it was the day AFTER my no-mesh surgery was done (your to late doc!)) and, a doctor in Las Vegas who was charging $5000...! I decided to call Dr. Tomas in Florida and he called me back in 30min...! I did some research on him and found no negatives on him or the Desarda no-mesh procedure so I made plans to fly South West Airlines down to Ft. Myers Florida and see Dr. Tomas. The whole trip was AWESOME...! Dr. Thomas and his office staff are all very patient and willing to listen to your health needs. He has a discount arranged with the Fairfield Marriott in Ft. Myers which also provides a shuttle to and from the hotel, the airport and his office (and if you tip a little extra the driver will probably take you to a local grocery store if you need it). Everything was WONDERFUL...! Costco, and Enterprise rental cars are a right nextdoor (the rental car was useful my 1st day so I could take a Ft. Myers beach drive and do some grocery shopping so after surgery all I would have to do is watch TV and rest, which turned out to be a GOOD idea!. Super Target is directly across the street and Super Walmart is a 3min drive south. The hotel rooms are VERY clean, the daily breakfast with eggs & waffle was AWESOME and by shopping for my vegetarian food at Walmart & Target I was able to eat in my lunch & dinner in my room everyday and NOT have to buy any restaurant or to-go food at all...! Microwave & Fridge & coffee/tea maker are in the room...! I was walking upright and normal one day after surgery and flew home to Dallas (7hr trip with delays) on the 3rd day after surgery with no significant problems. I did keep an ice pack (bring your own zip lock bags) on my incision every hour after surgery for 5 days to keep the swelling and pain down (it works too!) Just a little sting and tender but, on the 4th day I didn't need the paid meds only 2 ibuprofen every 4 hrs. Dr. Tomas's office is clean, organized, friendly and helpful. I'm VERY VERY glad that I do not have any petroleum based polymer plastic in my body that could develop unexpected complications years down the road. And, my hernia was fixed in a natural way with my own tissue. I do believe in taking homeopathic healing remedies (those little blue tubes) so I took "Arnica Montana" & "Staphysagria" orally every 4hrs after surgery and now I have NO brusing and very little swelling. That's my story. It's only been 4 days after surgery so maybe I'm still in the honey-moon phase but, it feels good and If I need something else done at least the doctor won't have to deal with something plastic in the way. Just my .02 Comments? Be Well, David
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Jobroni
Jobroni

September 28th, 2013, 1:27 pm #19

My story is similar to RFE. I had a large inguinal hernia for over 3 yrs that grew as time went by. I continued to work out w/ weights eliminating certain exercises from my workouts (squats, leg presses, military presses) over time to compensate for the hernia. Some days I had the hernia descend into my scrotum and would have to lay down to work my intestines back where it belonged.
At first I was hesitant about considering a foreign substance mesh for a hernia repair. I met with several surgeons who collectively among them performed mesh and non-mesh techniques. I was a candidate for all types of these repairs.
After months of research and speaking with many people who actually had hernia surgery (including those who had Desarda, Shouldice, Lichtenstein, and Ultrapro techniques), I decided to use NPHI Dr Goodyear w/ Ultrapro. I felt it was the best choice for my situation and I am very pleased with my results. I agree that choosing a specialist with many yrs of experience is very important.

I had my surgery 5 weeks ago. Not much pain considering the area of the body where the surgery is performed. I took a pain med the evening of surgery, another the next morning for the 4hr drive back home to NY (wife drove). Right after surgery I went out to Whole Foods, bought some fruits & veggies, and then did a little shopping. Early dinner that evening at a local restaurant. The evening of my surgery I continued to go out for 10-15 minute walks every hour. Walking after surgery as much as I could I believe was key to my recovery, along w/ supplements and a healthy diet. 3 days after surgery I was going out for 30-45 walks every couple of hours. 1 week after surgery back to the gym to walk uphill / incline on the treadmill and some light exercise bike. I'm now at 5 weeks post-op and introducing light weights and being careful to monitor my body how I feel. Another couple weeks I will begin training for a local 1/2 marathon. I have 3 friends at work who had the Lichenstein method performed by a local surgeon and they can't believe my recovery. I glad to report I don't have any sharp pains, twinges, etc.
All I can say is do your research, talk to people who have had surgery that are similar to your situation, such type of hernia, size, how long have they had it, what type of active lifestyle do they have, etc.
Then choose what you feel is best. Whatever method you guys decide to choose, I wish you the best and hope your results turn out as well as mine at this stage.
Regards,
JOBRONI
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Connier
Connier

September 28th, 2013, 11:33 pm #20

alright people, all we hear and read about is all the complications of hernia mesh repair. It scares all of us into having the surgery if you do any bit of research. But somehow 95% of all surgeries are done using mesh (might be why we hear most of the horror stories with mesh) Now what I want to know is what are the cons, disadvantages of NOT using mesh. I live in Vegas and could easily use Peterson to do a non mesh repair(although it would cost be 5k!) He, along with many others, state how not using mesh has almost 0% chance of chronic pain. Now if that was truly the case then why are most all surgeons using mesh!!??? From my research it seemed recurrence was the problem with a non mesh repair but Peterson claims to have lower recurrence levels than most mesh surgeons. So what does everyone think? Lets play devils advocate and bash non mesh repair and put mesh repair on a pedestal, lol! But seriously the cons to a non mesh repair???..............
Simply to place a foreign polypropylene object inside a complex system based on Immunoglobins, inflammation, rejection, migration, infection, foreign, et al is
against nature. Man cannot create a better environment for natural healing.
The inflammation response will occur to some extent in everyone using mesh or any object inside the human body.

The reason why most use mesh? Because Johnson and Johnson with Ethicon and the founding surgeon in Miami promote mesh through a complex marketing system with unconscious bias studies and money/lobbyist. They attend seminars in SF under the guise of medical science that is based on money.This is how pharmaceuticals and the medical establishment have been operating since greed and corporatism started controlling most every aspect of our lives and our schedules, to include our food.

Non mesh surgery by Bruce Ramshaw will resolve your issues. I have a R Inquinal Hernia and I am fit enough to live with it, but for those of you whom are not, contact Dr. Ramshaw. I have talked with and met surgeons across the nation to include Desarda and Albin and Kravitz and England and on and on...all good guys but once you have been using mesh that is mostly what you know and to change jeopardizes your position and revenue. Desarda has a unique technique and I admire his efforts for natural healing and would give him to nod if Ramshaw is not an option. The energy and knowledge of Ramshaw, whom has been international also, is the best I've seen thus far.

So, why use no mesh? Because how much is your body worth, it's worth letting it does what it does best, heal with as natural a process without a constant foreign object that no one can predict how it will respond acutely or chronically.

conniernordan.com
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