What chain model defends against the double link flaw?

x3RF2E
x3RF2E

December 12th, 2017, 5:39 pm #1

Most know double link engineering is flawed. I have reviewed all the major double link chain handcuffs and the only one I find that may not succumb to chain binding are the models with a long insert that enter into the frame of the cuff which the chain attaches to. This may make chain binding a little more difficult (Hiatts vs. Smith Wesson for example)

Some have mentioned a single link chain but I can not find any modern traditional designs with a single link or single ring chain. They are all international and look pretty bad by the rest of their design. Perhaps someone can link to some models?

Others have mentioned a triple link chain to prevent the binding but those probably allow too much free range to offer any real security.

Yes I know straight bar and hinged solve this problem but that isn't the focus of this post. Some of us use chain for liability, especially security companies that generally don't enjoy the same civil protections as government.

I continue to wonder why no manufacturer has addressed this problem with double link chain handcuffs. You can implement all the security measures you want to the reinforcement of the handcuff, the security of the key mechanism, etc. but if the chain can be ripped apart by your average John Doe, then clearly we are dealing with a serious safety issue that no one seems to care about including NIJ.
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police union
police union

December 12th, 2017, 11:54 pm #2

no one is honestly interesting in officer safety. all the best cuffs are too expensive and police lives don't matter. money matters. what ever happen to Gotcha cuffs?
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Nils
Nils

December 13th, 2017, 6:56 am #3

Most know double link engineering is flawed. I have reviewed all the major double link chain handcuffs and the only one I find that may not succumb to chain binding are the models with a long insert that enter into the frame of the cuff which the chain attaches to. This may make chain binding a little more difficult (Hiatts vs. Smith Wesson for example)

Some have mentioned a single link chain but I can not find any modern traditional designs with a single link or single ring chain. They are all international and look pretty bad by the rest of their design. Perhaps someone can link to some models?

Others have mentioned a triple link chain to prevent the binding but those probably allow too much free range to offer any real security.

Yes I know straight bar and hinged solve this problem but that isn't the focus of this post. Some of us use chain for liability, especially security companies that generally don't enjoy the same civil protections as government.

I continue to wonder why no manufacturer has addressed this problem with double link chain handcuffs. You can implement all the security measures you want to the reinforcement of the handcuff, the security of the key mechanism, etc. but if the chain can be ripped apart by your average John Doe, then clearly we are dealing with a serious safety issue that no one seems to care about including NIJ.
Gotcha might have been great, if they hadn't taken my money for two pairs and a holster and run. So forgive me if I'm not a big fan.

Nils
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Ian McColl
Ian McColl

December 13th, 2017, 8:29 am #4

Most know double link engineering is flawed. I have reviewed all the major double link chain handcuffs and the only one I find that may not succumb to chain binding are the models with a long insert that enter into the frame of the cuff which the chain attaches to. This may make chain binding a little more difficult (Hiatts vs. Smith Wesson for example)

Some have mentioned a single link chain but I can not find any modern traditional designs with a single link or single ring chain. They are all international and look pretty bad by the rest of their design. Perhaps someone can link to some models?

Others have mentioned a triple link chain to prevent the binding but those probably allow too much free range to offer any real security.

Yes I know straight bar and hinged solve this problem but that isn't the focus of this post. Some of us use chain for liability, especially security companies that generally don't enjoy the same civil protections as government.

I continue to wonder why no manufacturer has addressed this problem with double link chain handcuffs. You can implement all the security measures you want to the reinforcement of the handcuff, the security of the key mechanism, etc. but if the chain can be ripped apart by your average John Doe, then clearly we are dealing with a serious safety issue that no one seems to care about including NIJ.
I know what you mean Nils, American business's will stiff any way they can and do.
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Rasberius
Rasberius

December 13th, 2017, 11:53 am #5

Most know double link engineering is flawed. I have reviewed all the major double link chain handcuffs and the only one I find that may not succumb to chain binding are the models with a long insert that enter into the frame of the cuff which the chain attaches to. This may make chain binding a little more difficult (Hiatts vs. Smith Wesson for example)

Some have mentioned a single link chain but I can not find any modern traditional designs with a single link or single ring chain. They are all international and look pretty bad by the rest of their design. Perhaps someone can link to some models?

Others have mentioned a triple link chain to prevent the binding but those probably allow too much free range to offer any real security.

Yes I know straight bar and hinged solve this problem but that isn't the focus of this post. Some of us use chain for liability, especially security companies that generally don't enjoy the same civil protections as government.

I continue to wonder why no manufacturer has addressed this problem with double link chain handcuffs. You can implement all the security measures you want to the reinforcement of the handcuff, the security of the key mechanism, etc. but if the chain can be ripped apart by your average John Doe, then clearly we are dealing with a serious safety issue that no one seems to care about including NIJ.
Ralkem 9921 and 9924 chain link cuffs are single link.

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Tremex
Tremex

December 13th, 2017, 9:25 pm #6

Most know double link engineering is flawed. I have reviewed all the major double link chain handcuffs and the only one I find that may not succumb to chain binding are the models with a long insert that enter into the frame of the cuff which the chain attaches to. This may make chain binding a little more difficult (Hiatts vs. Smith Wesson for example)

Some have mentioned a single link chain but I can not find any modern traditional designs with a single link or single ring chain. They are all international and look pretty bad by the rest of their design. Perhaps someone can link to some models?

Others have mentioned a triple link chain to prevent the binding but those probably allow too much free range to offer any real security.

Yes I know straight bar and hinged solve this problem but that isn't the focus of this post. Some of us use chain for liability, especially security companies that generally don't enjoy the same civil protections as government.

I continue to wonder why no manufacturer has addressed this problem with double link chain handcuffs. You can implement all the security measures you want to the reinforcement of the handcuff, the security of the key mechanism, etc. but if the chain can be ripped apart by your average John Doe, then clearly we are dealing with a serious safety issue that no one seems to care about including NIJ.
And some Chubbs Arrest/Detainer too (but not all).

http://www.network54.com/Forum/261154/t ... cquisition
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x3RF2E
x3RF2E

December 14th, 2017, 11:13 am #7

Most know double link engineering is flawed. I have reviewed all the major double link chain handcuffs and the only one I find that may not succumb to chain binding are the models with a long insert that enter into the frame of the cuff which the chain attaches to. This may make chain binding a little more difficult (Hiatts vs. Smith Wesson for example)

Some have mentioned a single link chain but I can not find any modern traditional designs with a single link or single ring chain. They are all international and look pretty bad by the rest of their design. Perhaps someone can link to some models?

Others have mentioned a triple link chain to prevent the binding but those probably allow too much free range to offer any real security.

Yes I know straight bar and hinged solve this problem but that isn't the focus of this post. Some of us use chain for liability, especially security companies that generally don't enjoy the same civil protections as government.

I continue to wonder why no manufacturer has addressed this problem with double link chain handcuffs. You can implement all the security measures you want to the reinforcement of the handcuff, the security of the key mechanism, etc. but if the chain can be ripped apart by your average John Doe, then clearly we are dealing with a serious safety issue that no one seems to care about including NIJ.
TuffKuffs were interesting but it looks like the concept was unsuccessful. Their swivel and pivot design is interesting but is probably a guaranteed liability to any governmental or private sector operator.

I think it's time for Peerless, Smith and Wesson, Hiatts, CTS, and ASP to accept the fact their chain designs are so easily defeated by any person with average dexterity, reasonable strength, and knowledge of this design flaw.

Some argue that behind the back handcuffing reduces the leverage needed to accomplish chain separation but that probably isn't true for everyone.

CTS implemented some decent security features with their Trimax models but more improvements are needed especially in the subject of chain design. I wish all of these product engineers and executives would wake up and understand their products have not been perfected.






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SPD
SPD

December 14th, 2017, 11:25 am #8

Most know double link engineering is flawed. I have reviewed all the major double link chain handcuffs and the only one I find that may not succumb to chain binding are the models with a long insert that enter into the frame of the cuff which the chain attaches to. This may make chain binding a little more difficult (Hiatts vs. Smith Wesson for example)

Some have mentioned a single link chain but I can not find any modern traditional designs with a single link or single ring chain. They are all international and look pretty bad by the rest of their design. Perhaps someone can link to some models?

Others have mentioned a triple link chain to prevent the binding but those probably allow too much free range to offer any real security.

Yes I know straight bar and hinged solve this problem but that isn't the focus of this post. Some of us use chain for liability, especially security companies that generally don't enjoy the same civil protections as government.

I continue to wonder why no manufacturer has addressed this problem with double link chain handcuffs. You can implement all the security measures you want to the reinforcement of the handcuff, the security of the key mechanism, etc. but if the chain can be ripped apart by your average John Doe, then clearly we are dealing with a serious safety issue that no one seems to care about including NIJ.
only when I see stats of chain breakage would I consider you comment worthy of any consideration. never heard of it in any police arrest, just a youtube party trick.
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x3RF2E
x3RF2E

December 14th, 2017, 12:26 pm #9

Most know double link engineering is flawed. I have reviewed all the major double link chain handcuffs and the only one I find that may not succumb to chain binding are the models with a long insert that enter into the frame of the cuff which the chain attaches to. This may make chain binding a little more difficult (Hiatts vs. Smith Wesson for example)

Some have mentioned a single link chain but I can not find any modern traditional designs with a single link or single ring chain. They are all international and look pretty bad by the rest of their design. Perhaps someone can link to some models?

Others have mentioned a triple link chain to prevent the binding but those probably allow too much free range to offer any real security.

Yes I know straight bar and hinged solve this problem but that isn't the focus of this post. Some of us use chain for liability, especially security companies that generally don't enjoy the same civil protections as government.

I continue to wonder why no manufacturer has addressed this problem with double link chain handcuffs. You can implement all the security measures you want to the reinforcement of the handcuff, the security of the key mechanism, etc. but if the chain can be ripped apart by your average John Doe, then clearly we are dealing with a serious safety issue that no one seems to care about including NIJ.
I am afraid you're wrong.

This flaw is not just a smoke and light show. Take a pair of your own handcuffs and swivel or mash the chain between the two handcuffs until it binds and locks into a position of resistance. Then use the leverage you just created and apply force towards the direction of resistance. In most cases, the chain will separate from either the swivel by snapping at the insert point or the links could fail.

Bonowi has models that address this problem but the chain nor hinged model are cheap. Knowledge of how restraints work is not common place. Your average handcuffed suspect is probably not aware of this fault. The fact remains this is a serious engineering flaw in almost all chain models. And it should probably be corrected sooner than later.
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Joseph Fox
Joseph Fox

December 14th, 2017, 5:10 pm #10

Most know double link engineering is flawed. I have reviewed all the major double link chain handcuffs and the only one I find that may not succumb to chain binding are the models with a long insert that enter into the frame of the cuff which the chain attaches to. This may make chain binding a little more difficult (Hiatts vs. Smith Wesson for example)

Some have mentioned a single link chain but I can not find any modern traditional designs with a single link or single ring chain. They are all international and look pretty bad by the rest of their design. Perhaps someone can link to some models?

Others have mentioned a triple link chain to prevent the binding but those probably allow too much free range to offer any real security.

Yes I know straight bar and hinged solve this problem but that isn't the focus of this post. Some of us use chain for liability, especially security companies that generally don't enjoy the same civil protections as government.

I continue to wonder why no manufacturer has addressed this problem with double link chain handcuffs. You can implement all the security measures you want to the reinforcement of the handcuff, the security of the key mechanism, etc. but if the chain can be ripped apart by your average John Doe, then clearly we are dealing with a serious safety issue that no one seems to care about including NIJ.
Remember the "Trilock" CABLE Handcuffs? (Google for pics & info.).

....at least were thinking 'outside of the box'.

(The cuffs were connected by a short length of cable, instead of chain link(s).




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