Smith and Wesson Escape Challenge

Anonymous
Anonymous

January 12th, 2011, 7:54 pm #11

I read the site off and on and have a question. I can do simple escapes, locking picking etc.

My friend has challenged me to escape from Smith and Wesson Model 1900 Leg Irons with a "special" lock, a waist chain, a blue box, and smith and wesson model 100 hand cuffs with with a "special" lock. Is it possible to do this? Am I nuts for trying he wont show me the cuffs until I agree to it. What type of lock is this? He said they are production cuffs.

I have picked plenty of handcuffs before with relative ease. Although I have never had a pair of Leg Irons on I have very small ankles and I think with the shape of the Smith and Wesson's I should be able to slip them off my ankle with ease.
Being new your best decision is to NOT accept the challenge. While life and limb are not at stake it is still a smart idea to pass on this one. ASSA, retro box abloy padlock, that is tough for an experienced performer let alone someone new.

I am not discouraging you, just my opinion.
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Michael Lee
Michael Lee

January 12th, 2011, 8:19 pm #12

I read the site off and on and have a question. I can do simple escapes, locking picking etc.

My friend has challenged me to escape from Smith and Wesson Model 1900 Leg Irons with a "special" lock, a waist chain, a blue box, and smith and wesson model 100 hand cuffs with with a "special" lock. Is it possible to do this? Am I nuts for trying he wont show me the cuffs until I agree to it. What type of lock is this? He said they are production cuffs.

I have picked plenty of handcuffs before with relative ease. Although I have never had a pair of Leg Irons on I have very small ankles and I think with the shape of the Smith and Wesson's I should be able to slip them off my ankle with ease.
This is a Tough one ! a few Yrs ago Staley Palm & Larry Weeks saw me effect a unique one of a kind Challenge escape out a pair of S&W cuffs contained in a NY sheriffs blue box locked with a challengers master padlock..

Yes I did beat this Challenge ...So the Bottom is can it be done Yes I did it !

But I would never attempt it again.. Very painful...and Not Easy.

ANONY- If it is a legit challenge as I was confronted with then all restraints , locks and chain will be available for you to look over & test to see that all components are in Working order.

To this day it never ceases to amaze me at Just how many times even Houdini was stumped because he failed to once over thourghly the restraints that he was going to be restrained in....sadly Harry should have headed these words "Trust No one"

Personally you sound like a friendly young /Novice new to the escape game.

IMHO I would Study Everything you can get your hands on , read , read and read somemore and expermintation...
Spend many, many hrs at the work bench learning the How's & Why locks work and how to Compromise them... Purchase cheap handcuffs take them apart and attempt to understand what make them tick.

Escapes should never be attempted with out a fast thinking Crew off assistants with you , they need to be made aware of what can go wrong and what to do .each one of them has to be sharp and fast thinking on there toes. also each should be paid quite well as your wellbeing is in there hands.

Until that time I would certinally Not even think of attempting any form of a Challenge as at this point in time , the cash really does not matter...at this stage its all about study and getting a Solid foundation in the escape Arts , if your not ready to dedicate a good 10-15 yrs to the study of your craft before beginning to accebt real world challenges then the field of escape may not be for you

I wish you the Best


Michael Lee
www.michaelleemagic.com
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Anonymous
Anonymous

January 12th, 2011, 8:43 pm #13

I read the site off and on and have a question. I can do simple escapes, locking picking etc.

My friend has challenged me to escape from Smith and Wesson Model 1900 Leg Irons with a "special" lock, a waist chain, a blue box, and smith and wesson model 100 hand cuffs with with a "special" lock. Is it possible to do this? Am I nuts for trying he wont show me the cuffs until I agree to it. What type of lock is this? He said they are production cuffs.

I have picked plenty of handcuffs before with relative ease. Although I have never had a pair of Leg Irons on I have very small ankles and I think with the shape of the Smith and Wesson's I should be able to slip them off my ankle with ease.
Thanks for the response but I do really want to try this. It just a friendly thing its nothing serious. I can pick standard handcuffs in about a minute even double locked. I dont think a total of 12 hours in these cuffs will be bad if I fail completly. My questions more specially are:

1. What are some methods I can use/research to bypass/pick the handcuffs, blue box, leg irons, etc.

2. Is it feasible to think I can slip the leg irons off both ankles? Somebody mentioned tightness so I asked and was told they will be snug but not tight. I guess just enough to allow the ankle to flex without restriction. I was also told that it would be on my bare ankle I could not wear socks or boots or anything like that. I was told basically said the metal will be touching the skin.

3. Is the padlock normally placed behind the back when the blue box is used with a waist chain? If so is there anyway to get to it?

4. Is 12 hours in these things so uncomfortable thats its not bearable?

5. Is walking in the leg irons easy if I do get stuck for the full time?

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Anonymous
Anonymous

January 13th, 2011, 5:44 pm #14

I read the site off and on and have a question. I can do simple escapes, locking picking etc.

My friend has challenged me to escape from Smith and Wesson Model 1900 Leg Irons with a "special" lock, a waist chain, a blue box, and smith and wesson model 100 hand cuffs with with a "special" lock. Is it possible to do this? Am I nuts for trying he wont show me the cuffs until I agree to it. What type of lock is this? He said they are production cuffs.

I have picked plenty of handcuffs before with relative ease. Although I have never had a pair of Leg Irons on I have very small ankles and I think with the shape of the Smith and Wesson's I should be able to slip them off my ankle with ease.
Anyone have any help on this one?
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MICHAEL LEE
MICHAEL LEE

January 13th, 2011, 6:19 pm #15

I read the site off and on and have a question. I can do simple escapes, locking picking etc.

My friend has challenged me to escape from Smith and Wesson Model 1900 Leg Irons with a "special" lock, a waist chain, a blue box, and smith and wesson model 100 hand cuffs with with a "special" lock. Is it possible to do this? Am I nuts for trying he wont show me the cuffs until I agree to it. What type of lock is this? He said they are production cuffs.

I have picked plenty of handcuffs before with relative ease. Although I have never had a pair of Leg Irons on I have very small ankles and I think with the shape of the Smith and Wesson's I should be able to slip them off my ankle with ease.
I would READ then read again what i have written ...What you getting here for FREE is sound Real world advice, I think the words your searching for are... 'Thank You "

The last thing you want to experience is 12 hrs restrained ..Should anything happen to you,, it makes all escapist look bad.

Unless you have Experienced people around you for the entire 12 hrs ...you should aviod this

Most people these day don't have a 12 second attention span let alone 12 hrs ...Period !...Let this go !!!!

MICHAEL LEE
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Joined: July 30th, 2009, 8:28 pm

January 14th, 2011, 2:23 am #16

I read the site off and on and have a question. I can do simple escapes, locking picking etc.

My friend has challenged me to escape from Smith and Wesson Model 1900 Leg Irons with a "special" lock, a waist chain, a blue box, and smith and wesson model 100 hand cuffs with with a "special" lock. Is it possible to do this? Am I nuts for trying he wont show me the cuffs until I agree to it. What type of lock is this? He said they are production cuffs.

I have picked plenty of handcuffs before with relative ease. Although I have never had a pair of Leg Irons on I have very small ankles and I think with the shape of the Smith and Wesson's I should be able to slip them off my ankle with ease.
The advice given here is the most sound advice you are going to get. There are people here who are experts on the subject of cuffs, escapes and challenge.
There are two ways to learn. Listen to the wise council given or fail the escape because your not ready. This may not be on a stage with an audience but when an if it is will you learn from the experts who are trying to help you?
Or will you fail in front of an audience?
We all have escape situations we are not ready for. That's why people study, practice and plan.
If you have any intention of being an escape artist, doing it right is important. Norm
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Anonymous
Anonymous

January 14th, 2011, 5:57 pm #17

I read the site off and on and have a question. I can do simple escapes, locking picking etc.

My friend has challenged me to escape from Smith and Wesson Model 1900 Leg Irons with a "special" lock, a waist chain, a blue box, and smith and wesson model 100 hand cuffs with with a "special" lock. Is it possible to do this? Am I nuts for trying he wont show me the cuffs until I agree to it. What type of lock is this? He said they are production cuffs.

I have picked plenty of handcuffs before with relative ease. Although I have never had a pair of Leg Irons on I have very small ankles and I think with the shape of the Smith and Wesson's I should be able to slip them off my ankle with ease.
I do thank everyone that has posted on this thread in the way of advice.

I head your warnings but this is just for fun not in front of audience. I do not plan on making a career out of it I just wanted some specifics and pointers on doing the actual escape which I asked previously. I have never seen these cuffs before so I dont know how easy or difficult they are to pick or shim.

Thanks
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Expert Handcuff Picker
Expert Handcuff Picker

January 14th, 2011, 10:41 pm #18

I read the site off and on and have a question. I can do simple escapes, locking picking etc.

My friend has challenged me to escape from Smith and Wesson Model 1900 Leg Irons with a "special" lock, a waist chain, a blue box, and smith and wesson model 100 hand cuffs with with a "special" lock. Is it possible to do this? Am I nuts for trying he wont show me the cuffs until I agree to it. What type of lock is this? He said they are production cuffs.

I have picked plenty of handcuffs before with relative ease. Although I have never had a pair of Leg Irons on I have very small ankles and I think with the shape of the Smith and Wesson's I should be able to slip them off my ankle with ease.
Long story short:


Abloy is a high-security lock / nearly impossible to pick by itself. Worse while you're wearing it.

Assa (or Medeco) as would be on the cuffs are also high-security locks. They were designed for crafty criminals who may have some lock knowledge.

This forum is comprised of some of the best restraint manipulators on the planet, bluntly, what you are being told is that you will virtually fail this attempt. An analogy to what you wish to challenge yourself with, is like a toddler taking his first step today, and then making an attempt to scale the Andes Mountains tomorrow. OK?

Practice with regular restraints first!!!

Good luck -
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Joined: January 31st, 2006, 7:11 pm

January 15th, 2011, 7:41 pm #19

I read the site off and on and have a question. I can do simple escapes, locking picking etc.

My friend has challenged me to escape from Smith and Wesson Model 1900 Leg Irons with a "special" lock, a waist chain, a blue box, and smith and wesson model 100 hand cuffs with with a "special" lock. Is it possible to do this? Am I nuts for trying he wont show me the cuffs until I agree to it. What type of lock is this? He said they are production cuffs.

I have picked plenty of handcuffs before with relative ease. Although I have never had a pair of Leg Irons on I have very small ankles and I think with the shape of the Smith and Wesson's I should be able to slip them off my ankle with ease.
Since you're determined to do this stunt, I have a couple of suggestions.

First try it with regular S&W cuffs and leg irons and a pickable padlock. And have a spotter on hand to bust you loose if you fail.

Second, try the punishment scene on your own, again with a safety spotter to release you if everything goes in the pot. You may decide you don't want to risk the default scene, or you may decide it is no big deal.

In any event, I would have a safety spotter on hand with absolute authority to stop the stunt and release you, including from the default scene, if you are judged to be in danger.

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Martin
Martin

January 15th, 2011, 8:46 pm #20

I read the site off and on and have a question. I can do simple escapes, locking picking etc.

My friend has challenged me to escape from Smith and Wesson Model 1900 Leg Irons with a "special" lock, a waist chain, a blue box, and smith and wesson model 100 hand cuffs with with a "special" lock. Is it possible to do this? Am I nuts for trying he wont show me the cuffs until I agree to it. What type of lock is this? He said they are production cuffs.

I have picked plenty of handcuffs before with relative ease. Although I have never had a pair of Leg Irons on I have very small ankles and I think with the shape of the Smith and Wesson's I should be able to slip them off my ankle with ease.
Hi,

I don't think "Anonymous" is into an escape performance here. So if he wants to do some punishment-game with a friend - why not? I assume there's an exit path using the key in case it really begins to hurt...

I also assume the friend is talking about the Assa/Medeco Cuffmaxx S&W Cuffs, he probably got them and now is very proud of these ultra-high-security cuffs. But as he wants to use the (also special) Blue box on them, he obviously doesn't trust the Lock enough?! I would say picking it while cuffed (especially the Assa) would already be a really tough challenge.

But regarding the "designed for crafty criminals" - I don't think so. They were designed to be sold, having financial constraints ruining the original design. Following the original patent the attack shown in the next video was not possible - but it would have required a slightly modified lock. The BOA prototypes had it!

To Anonymous: I think if our assumptions about the cuffs are true, your most realistic path of escape is shown in this video from a Security Conference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp1Hs09vidY

But there are two really huge drawbacks:
- the presenter shows this with Peerless Cuffs. Those are MUCH easier in this respect. Try it with standard S&W Cuffs (as said, the lock is irrelevant here) and you will notice it requires really some impact to get the double lock out. This will hurt! You and possibly also the cuffs depending on the used surface. It might even be impossible if the cuffs spring is too stiff.
- If the cuffs are attached to a belly chain it is even harder, if not impossible to do, depending on the way the cuffs are attached. The Blue Box doesn't really make it better, too - even though it does not prevent the attack.

My suggestion: If you manage to use the method shown above on standard S&W cuffs talk him into leaving out the blue box. Tell him "if the locks are THAT good, why not let me try the cuffs alone?". He can't expect more for $50 - and it also makes the punishment of keeping them on a little more realistic... If he uses Medeco you COULD also try picking, but if you never picked a Medeco M3 camlock before I assume you will not be able to do it.

Regarding the rest: yes, it is normal for the padlock to end up in the back. If done right you can't access it. Which doesn't matter as you won't be able to pick an Abloy padlock anyway. So even if you escape the cuffs the chain will remain on. Regarding the leg irons: slipping out of those is pretty unlikely if they are applied relatively tight. It's more realistic on handcuffs, but S&Ws also are not the best for that. Especially in such a challnge I would assume both will be too tight for you to slip out.

Martin
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