Ian F
Ian F

November 18th, 2004, 5:35 pm #11

Hi Chris Re your enquiry photos Melbourne Airfield from the air there are two double page photos of the airfield in the book Melbourne Ten by Brian Rapier You dont by any chance have any photos of Halifax LV825G ZAG this aircraft was with 10 Squadron from March 44 to June 44 Many Thanks HAROLD DUMMER
LV792 or LV833 are the nearest comparison photo's held on the database here if that helps any?
Ian
Last edited by NA337 on November 18th, 2004, 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: September 4th, 2003, 11:37 pm

November 18th, 2004, 5:53 pm #12

Hi Chris
Your father was ground crew to my dad's crew who flew ZA-Y (MZ773)upto 13 Aug 1944 when they were shot down on their last op of the tour.
His name was Maurice Gilbert and he was rear gunner on Jack Saynor's crew.
They were shot down (almost certainly by 'friendly fire') near Pappenberg en route for Brunswick. Crew baled out, all surviving and met up again at sqdn. reunion in 1985. Unfortunately my dad ,Skipper Jack Saynor and Navigator Doug Smallbone are no longer with us.
I have lots of info inc.sqdn logs March-August 44.
If I can help email me- Richard@mgilbertandson.fsnet.co.uk
Regards
Richard
SERIAL No: MZ773
MANUFACTURER: English Electric Co Ltd, Preston
CONTRACT No: ACFT/2553
REQUISITION No: HA9/E11/42
ORDER QTY & TYPE: 360 B Mk III's
DELIVERY DETAILS: Batch MZ730 to MZ775 delivered between 04/06/44 & 22/06/44

1st UNIT: 10 Sqn
SQUADRON: 10 Sqn
UNIT CODES: ZA-Y
BASE: Melbourne

DATE: 13/08/44
TARGET: Braunschweig
TIME UP: 21:28hrs

DETAILS:
Left base without incident. Outbound at 18,000ft, and just after crossing the German coastline, the
aircraft came under fire from another Halifax, which caused a fire in the port outer engine & fuel tank.
The aircraft was quickly abandoned & left to crash into the ground at Vollenerfehn, 3km N of Papenburg.
The crew were on their 38th trip and were within hours of completing their tour.
CREW:
F/O J. Saynor p
Sgt S. Milton p
P/O D. D. Smallhouse p
F/Sgt H. G. James p
P/O S. Jackson p
Sgt N. Brown p
Sgt M. Gilbert p

N.B: This aircraft was painted by John Rayson GAvA and used by the Yorkshire Air Museum on
Christmas cards in 1994.

PHOTOGRAPHS: MZ763 is nearest comparison on file
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Richard Gilbert
Richard Gilbert

November 26th, 2004, 8:45 am #13

Hi Ian,
Thanks for the info on MZ773. I would be very grateful if you could pass on the source of this info (Sqdn Ops Records simply state no news of this aircraft after take off)since although the crew were certain they were the ' victims of friendly fire'( small calibre tracer passing ahead to astern) to my and I believe their knowledge this was never the officially recognised reason.Are records updated?
I would like to add one small ammendment however.They were a very 'democratic crew' and after trying unsuccessfully to extinguish the fire a quick vote was taken as to the next course of action.This resulted in the decision to bale out before things got worse!
I have a copy of the Rayson painting I will (try) to email it to anyone interested.
Great website.
Regards
Richard Gilbert.
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Joined: November 25th, 2004, 4:46 pm

November 27th, 2004, 3:32 am #14

Hello

My father served with 10 sqd as an ground engineer. 'His' aircraft were the various ZA-Y Yolks that served with the squadron. His claim to fame? The famous series of pictures by Flight Magazine in 1943 of the merlin-engined Halifax B II Series 1 (Special) BB324 ZA-X that adorn many, many publications, well my Dad is in the astrodome, smiling away! He was on a flight test and often, wise skippers, would take their ground crew up on test flights just to keep them 'on their metal'. He often accompanied test flights as the flight engineer.

For my father, I am currently repainting Stuart Green's superb Halifax II for Microsoft's Combat Flight Simulator 2 (CFS2) and would like a serial of any ZA-Y that served with 10 squadron, preferably a B II hercules engined variant. Can anybody help please?

As an aside adutch friend is building an accurate RAF Melbourne scenery for CFS2 too.

Regards
Chris Simmonds
Freeland Oxfordshire
Chris,

I've done a fair amount of ferreting on this Brunswick raid of August '44 - one of "my" 100 Squadron boys was shot down on it and subsequently murdered by the Gestapo.

I've got Loss Cards, Raid Reports, Escape and Evasion Reports (mostly appertaining to 1 Group, but they give an overall flavour of what was happening in the skies that night) and a few other bits and pieces too. I know that your post was more in relation to a specific Halibag, but if any of it is of any use to you, be sure to let me know, and i could copy it for you and send it on to you.

L/O

Greg

P.S. Don't tell Eddie fell because i still owe him some copying from weeks ago!!

"You can take the boy out of Wales,
But you cannot takes Wales out of the boy"
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Joined: November 25th, 2004, 4:46 pm

November 27th, 2004, 3:33 am #15

Sorry - the post above should have been directed at Richard specifically, not Chris!! Offer stands for anyone who wants it really!!

I thnk i must be getting tired and emotional...

L/O

Greg

"You can take the boy out of Wales,
But you cannot takes Wales out of the boy"
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Richard Gilbert
Richard Gilbert

November 28th, 2004, 2:00 pm #16

Greg,
Thanks for the info offer on this raid. Anything you (or anyone else for that matter) can provide would be greatly appreciated.
Dad told me he was interrogated by a Gestapo Officer, as I suppose most pows were,fortunately for him he was just offered the obligatory cigarette.His greatest misfortune as a pow was having to endure one of the forced marches across Germany during the winter of 44.
My email is richard@mgilbertandson.fsnet.co.uk
Regards
Richard
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Joined: November 25th, 2004, 4:46 pm

November 28th, 2004, 10:50 pm #17

Richard - i've sent you an email regarding this.

L/O

Greg

"You can take the boy out of Wales,
But you cannot takes Wales out of the boy"
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Eddoe Fell
Eddoe Fell

November 28th, 2004, 11:09 pm #18

Chris,

I've done a fair amount of ferreting on this Brunswick raid of August '44 - one of "my" 100 Squadron boys was shot down on it and subsequently murdered by the Gestapo.

I've got Loss Cards, Raid Reports, Escape and Evasion Reports (mostly appertaining to 1 Group, but they give an overall flavour of what was happening in the skies that night) and a few other bits and pieces too. I know that your post was more in relation to a specific Halibag, but if any of it is of any use to you, be sure to let me know, and i could copy it for you and send it on to you.

L/O

Greg

P.S. Don't tell Eddie fell because i still owe him some copying from weeks ago!!

"You can take the boy out of Wales,
But you cannot takes Wales out of the boy"
In response to Greg's post 'owing me'.

For weeks - read months!!

(Still, the boyo knows his stuff and he does deliver - eventually!!)

Eddie
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Joined: November 25th, 2004, 4:46 pm

November 29th, 2004, 12:01 am #19

Thanks Eddie, i think!!

I left a message on Smudger's answerphone today re: your E&E Reports

L/O

Greg

"You can take the boy out of Wales,
But you cannot takes Wales out of the boy"
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Joined: September 4th, 2003, 11:37 pm

November 29th, 2004, 5:49 pm #20

Hi Ian,
Thanks for the info on MZ773. I would be very grateful if you could pass on the source of this info (Sqdn Ops Records simply state no news of this aircraft after take off)since although the crew were certain they were the ' victims of friendly fire'( small calibre tracer passing ahead to astern) to my and I believe their knowledge this was never the officially recognised reason.Are records updated?
I would like to add one small ammendment however.They were a very 'democratic crew' and after trying unsuccessfully to extinguish the fire a quick vote was taken as to the next course of action.This resulted in the decision to bale out before things got worse!
I have a copy of the Rayson painting I will (try) to email it to anyone interested.
Great website.
Regards
Richard Gilbert.
Hi Richard,

My stuff comes from a variety of sources & has been built up over a few years. Sadly all the sources cannot be credited, but, there are references in Chorley's '44 about the same aircraft falling victim to friendly fire as well.
Hope this bit helps?
Best wishes
Ian
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