Florida school shooting

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Joined: March 28th, 2003, 3:15 am

March 12th, 2018, 7:56 pm #21

Kevon wrote: Guns are illegal in many countries, and it works just fine. 
This is a simplistic view though. Guns are illegal and never been in public distribution in other countries so of course it works fine. You aren't dealing with a culture and system going back decades that has put these weapons in mass distribution and embedded public behaviour. Fuck, I imagine people hand their guns down to other generations in America.

This shit is deeply rooted in US society and part of their DNA now.  

It works "fine" in places like the UK because we're never let the genie out the bottle. America has the issue of not only having to physically get all of that back into the bottle but also out of their culture after decades of cultural programming.  

Its a very complex situation that many countries have fortunately not had to deal with. 
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Joined: January 30th, 2004, 2:33 am

March 13th, 2018, 3:55 am #22

jamiclever wrote:
OohoneyrainoO wrote:You'd have to have a lot of faith in your government or law enforcement to want them to have all of the gun power. Citizens with no access to guns can't defend themselves.  The government can do with them what they want by sheer gun force.  That's a big reason the right to bear arms was established.  I have the right to protect what's mine. 
Are you saying that if only the government had guns, they would attack helpless citizens? Is that why people want guns? To defend themselves against law enforcers?

I mean, I have absolutely zero faith in our current government, but I don't think they're about to start shooting at me for no reason...

I get it. People think having a gun helps keep them *safe*. The cold hard facts state that that is wrong, though. Reform is a start, but abolishment should be the long-term goal.
Is it really that far-fetched? First of all, it has been happening in countries very recently, and citizens have protected themselves with guns from their government.

Secondly, while the U.S. seems somewhat different, is it really? We have more organized forms of government control, but it's definitely there. And Trump and his cronies are making it worse.
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Joined: November 16th, 2002, 6:36 am

March 13th, 2018, 9:28 am #23

carlos b fly wrote:
Kevon wrote: Guns are illegal in many countries, and it works just fine. 
This is a simplistic view though. Guns are illegal and never been in public distribution in other countries so of course it works fine. You aren't dealing with a culture and system going back decades that has put these weapons in mass distribution and embedded public behaviour. Fuck, I imagine people hand their guns down to other generations in America.

This shit is deeply rooted in US society and part of their DNA now.  

It works "fine" in places like the UK because we're never let the genie out the bottle. America has the issue of not only having to physically get all of that back into the bottle but also out of their culture after decades of cultural programming.  

Its a very complex situation that many countries have fortunately not had to deal with. 
Oh I'm not denying that it will be a huge undertaking and will probably never be perfect or close to places like here, but it has to start somewhere.

I know it's never going to happen, I'm just speaking hypothetically. Any politician rooting for banning guns would be committing career suicide. As I say, it's just this weird backward mentality that many americans seem to have.
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Joined: July 13th, 2005, 7:43 pm

March 13th, 2018, 10:49 am #24

If we can’t even disagree without being condescending and insulting, that mentality is also part of the problem.

I don’t think it’s weird or backwards at all for a single woman (or any woman) to want to protect herself. Or for the elderly person who lives alone and is able to defend herself despite a physical disadvantage due to gun ownership. Again, not for everyone but I’m glad the option is there.  

But, whatever. I’ll take weird and backwards. I’ve been called worse. I’m sure we all have. 😂
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Joined: November 16th, 2002, 6:36 am

March 13th, 2018, 11:12 am #25

I'm not saying that I don't understand why people want to have guns to protect themselves, because they are so readily available to anyone. It's a chicken/egg situation for sure and I'm not singling anyone out by calling them backwards personally. 

But, in many ways the mentality of whatever american that voted for Trump to be elected does have a backwards mentality from the perspective of many of us. Of course I'm not labelling the whole country, but it's much more than we would have ever expected prior to Trump announcing his candidacy
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Joined: July 13th, 2005, 7:43 pm

March 13th, 2018, 12:09 pm #26

I understand what you’re saying and agree that Trump is an absolute disgrace with the incredible talent of making every situation worse. I abhor the divisiveness of politics and how extreme they’ve become. As I said before, as long as we keep painting our issues a certain color (black or white, or even red or blue), we’ll never solve them. It will remain a constant power struggle. I’m not a Trump supporter. Many gun owners do support Trump, but there are also many who do not.

I wish we could get rid of our political parties and vote purely on the issues without any attachment to some distorted guideline of what our political views should be. There are not only 2 sides to all of our problems, which explains why our 2 main parties are failing.
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Joined: November 16th, 2002, 6:36 am

March 13th, 2018, 12:15 pm #27

It's a system that's failing here in the UK as well to be honest. Case in point being this ridiculous decision to leave the European Union. 

It's weird that the other big players, like China are focusing their energies on making international relations easier, such as investing in their infrastructure to make trading easier, meanwhile the UK and US think that locking the world out is the way forward.
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Joined: July 31st, 2003, 7:21 am

March 17th, 2018, 9:04 pm #28

Being in Pulse that tragic night and thanks to God--leaving due to a splitting headache an hour before shooting tragedy...this hit close to home for me. Also, Living in Florida with all these shootings. It's sad!
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Joined: January 30th, 2004, 2:33 am

March 20th, 2018, 1:45 pm #29

"Conservatives, it turns out, react more strongly to physical threat than liberals do."
"Brain imaging studies have even shown that the fear center of the brain, the amygdala, is actually larger in conservatives than in liberals."
"Imagining being completely safe from physical harm had done what no experiment had done before — it had turned conservatives into liberals."
"The boiling water of our social and political attitudes, it seems, can be turned up or down by changing how physically safe we feel."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ins ... 24d178e7f2
Very interesting.
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