Wikileaks, China, and Korea

Wikileaks, China, and Korea

Joined: May 13th, 2005, 7:50 am

November 30th, 2010, 7:04 am #1

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Joined: May 13th, 2005, 7:50 am

November 30th, 2010, 11:48 am #2

The Guardian's report is slightly fuller.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/no ... fied-korea
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Sidwell
Sidwell

November 30th, 2010, 12:45 pm #3

Poor old Harpo is going to have a hell of a time in the next issue of Proletarian, reconciling China's sympathy for Korean unification with his slavish worship of both the Beijing mandarian's and the N.K. God-Emperor.

I am sure it is just those cunning bourgeiosie rogues and revisionist stooges trying to fool us poor ignorant workers with their lies.

Harpo, show us the way!
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Joined: May 13th, 2005, 7:50 am

December 1st, 2010, 5:45 pm #4

A long silence while the friends of the DPRK wait for Kim to decide whether it's "Wicked revisionists take over China" or "Wicked imperialists spread false reports about our beloved leader and his allies". I'd go for the latter: the DPRK will surely hang on to the only powerful friend it has.
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Alan Airbrush
Alan Airbrush

December 2nd, 2010, 2:33 am #5

Sidwell is being uncharacteristically naive. Harpal Brar will deal with the tensions between North Korea and China by ignoring them. After all, this is a man who still believes - or at least claims to believe - that the Nazis were responsible for the massacres at Katyn.
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L'il Kim
L'il Kim

December 2nd, 2010, 8:15 am #6

A long silence while the friends of the DPRK wait for Kim to decide whether it's "Wicked revisionists take over China" or "Wicked imperialists spread false reports about our beloved leader and his allies". I'd go for the latter: the DPRK will surely hang on to the only powerful friend it has.
I find it easy to believe there are currents in Beijing that are frustrated and embarrased by the DPRK's antics and who think that simply washing their hands of it would be the best thing.
However, would China really benefit from a reunified Korea under the dominance of the south, maintaining a military alliance with the US and, most importantly, a united Korea that inherited a functioning nuclear capacity?
I can't see that. Nor can I see Japan, which has its own tensions with Korea and with China, sitting idly by. There would be any number of unforeseeable repercussions.
The obvious Chinese position is the one we see officially, not privately, expressed - preserve the status quo.
The Wikileaks revelations are fascinating but I'm not sure how much they are simply retelling diplomatic cocktail gossip and how much is genuine insight.
In any case, "US intelligence" is often a contradiction in terms.
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Harsanyi_Janos
Harsanyi_Janos

December 2nd, 2010, 6:55 pm #7

I cannot believe that the Chinese would imagine the status quo is in any way sustainable. An isolated slave state under the flabby hand of an insane and infirm despot who wants to make his country a present to his flabby inexperienced son.

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L'il Kim
L'il Kim

December 3rd, 2010, 6:45 am #8

Depends what you (and I) mean by "sustainable". Why should the GDR and the USSR disintegrate and the DPRK survive 20 years on? It defies logic. The gap between the ROK and DPRK is many times that of the FRG and GDR in 1989 and not just in GDP data. Perplexing but reality.
It's unlikely but certainly not entirely inconceivable the DPRK with the young general will still be there in 10 or 20 years. I'm not convinced that collapse or a "China sellout" are on the cards.
Unfortunately there is little sign that the DPRK will reform in any dynamic way but as we've seen recently in Cuba (entirely different cirucmstances I know)hard choices have to be made at times.
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Ordinary Proletarian(Reconstructed)
Ordinary Proletarian(Reconstructed)

December 4th, 2010, 9:28 pm #9

It is not a question of GDP stats or whatever but a question of independence v dependence.South Korea has just concluded an humilating and servile FTA deal with the US.South Korea is a colony directly occupied by 28,500 US troops who enjoy extra territoriality and the US recieves money from south Korea for their upkeep.South Korea is just a cesspit of US cultures and globalization.Whatever strengths the GDR may have had it did not have real independence.

One thing I notice not raised here nor in the Wikileaks stuff is the prospect of how the US and Western powers would deal with a reunified Korea on the DPRK's terms following the south Koreans being foolish enough to provoke a war.I would recommend people read "KIM JONG IL-DAY OF HAVING KOREA REUNIFIED" by overseas Korean writer and journalist Kim Myong Chol(usually referred to M C Kim),I do not agree with a few things in the book but interestingly it suggests that the DPRK can overcome south Korea within 8 days.If the DPRK was able to accomplish reunification by military means swiftly this would be a fait d accompli which the imperialists would not be able to do much about or could they?
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L'il Kim
L'il Kim

December 7th, 2010, 6:01 am #10

You are correct to point out the dependent aspects of South Korean capitalism but colony, this is ridiculous. Most of your points about US bases, US culture etc apply just as well to the UK, which is not a US colony but a junior imperialist partner.
Could the DPRK forces take South Korea in 8 days? Against an ROK army of 600kplus, which is far better equipped than the North and with US forces on site, with US aircraft carriers in the region and with US bases in Japan in striking range? This is utterly delusional. Japan's military would likely also use it as an excuse to get involved, that's another military force of 200k and heavily equipped if untested.
If Kim couldn't do it in 1950, when political and military conditions were much more favourable there is no chance it could happen now. Chinese assistance was decisive after the US landing at Incheon in saving the DPRK.
And that leads us nicely on to dependence, the DPRK was heavily dependent on Soviet and Chinese aid and preferential trade throughout its best performing periods. China is today the DPRK's lifeline, here's a very well informed commentator's take on things:
http://atimes.com/atimes/China/LL04Ad01.html
MC Kim's views can be found on the same website
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/LJ19Dg01.html
Mr Kim outdoes OP reconstructed in his military wet dreams by saying inter alia that heir apparent Kim is:
"Able and decisive, he put all the armed forces and their crack global nuclear strike force on war alert for a possible full-blown nuclear exchange with the US. The two Kims were a click away from torching the Metropolitan US."
Delusional.
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