AOD 460 Swap

AOD 460 Swap

Joined: April 17th, 2004, 8:46 am

January 4th, 2008, 8:36 am #1

Allright.. I've looked at a couple of 460 AOD swap setups.

One is an adaptor plate.
the other is a replacement bell.

Here's a bucks down - "Cost effective idea"

How hard is it to get the AOD converter to mate to the stock C4 flexplate? They're the same beast on 351W trucks if i'm not mistaken.

I'm thinking 351M/400 C4 Bell Housing, then modify the C4 Flex plate for big block hub and bolt pattern. then use the AOD converter. then saw off the AOD bell and use a small plate between the C4 Bell and the AOD to make it all go. The AOD converter should be ~5/8 taller? so that sorts it out right?

When given a $700 answer a $100 answer has to exist.

Your thoughts?


John Johnson BEng
1968 Falcon Futura Sports Coupe
460 Test Mule C6 3.70:1
Under Construction
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Silverfox
Silverfox

January 4th, 2008, 3:24 pm #2

Hmmm......
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Joined: April 17th, 2004, 8:46 am

January 5th, 2008, 12:25 am #3

I have a 400/460 FMX Bell too.

there is no reason why the adaptor plate wouldn't work there either. hmmm.

I have a spare flexplate and AOD sitting in my hoard.

This can't be that hard!





John Johnson BEng
1968 Falcon Futura Sports Coupe
460 Test Mule C6 3.70:1
Under Construction
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Joined: April 17th, 2004, 8:46 am

January 5th, 2008, 4:05 am #4

Hollander 409-416

GRAND MARQUIS 80 A.T.; C4, FMX and AOD
The same Flex plate for all three trasmissions!!!
this has got to be easy!

And this converter.
407-371 FD $244
Ident: 14A, 15A, 22A
Ident: 42A, 7A
CROWN VICTORIA 83-90 8-351W (5.8L)
GRAND MARQUIS 80 8-351W, AOD trans
GRAND MARQUIS 81-86 8-351W (5.8L)
LTD 80 8-351W, AOD trans
LTD 81-82 8-351W (5.8L)
LINCOLN & TOWN CAR 80 8-351W
LINCOLN MARK SERIES 80 8-351W

Use the FMX bell and i should be 90% there.

Are there differences between early and late converters??? Does anyone have an application list? or dimensions?






John Johnson BEng
1968 Falcon Futura Sports Coupe
460 Test Mule C6 3.70:1
Under Construction
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Joined: November 18th, 2004, 4:20 am

January 5th, 2008, 2:25 pm #5

Allright.. I've looked at a couple of 460 AOD swap setups.

One is an adaptor plate.
the other is a replacement bell.

Here's a bucks down - "Cost effective idea"

How hard is it to get the AOD converter to mate to the stock C4 flexplate? They're the same beast on 351W trucks if i'm not mistaken.

I'm thinking 351M/400 C4 Bell Housing, then modify the C4 Flex plate for big block hub and bolt pattern. then use the AOD converter. then saw off the AOD bell and use a small plate between the C4 Bell and the AOD to make it all go. The AOD converter should be ~5/8 taller? so that sorts it out right?

When given a $700 answer a $100 answer has to exist.

Your thoughts?


John Johnson BEng
1968 Falcon Futura Sports Coupe
460 Test Mule C6 3.70:1
Under Construction
The only biter could be proper alignment.

Getting the 5 pieces to line up properly could take some experimenting.
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Joined: April 17th, 2004, 8:46 am

January 5th, 2008, 8:48 pm #6

Axially all i need is +/- .005 and i should be able to get within .003 because the bell has a centerbore hole and the AOD pump is concentric to the input. I can turn the majority of this project on a brake lathe. I don't know if i have to turn the front face off on the pump to a smooth, flat indexing point for the adaptor. Lengthwise +/- .200 should get me there.

If anyone has ever cut the front bell end off of an AOD please send me info on pump mods and or where it was cut. Pictures are good too. thanks.

John



John Johnson BEng
1968 Falcon Futura Sports Coupe
460 Test Mule C6 3.70:1
Under Construction
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Silverfox
Silverfox

January 7th, 2008, 2:52 pm #7

i have plans too.
I have a guy on my list that wants a 4R70W to 460.
Our issue is that we need 1" extra bell to accomidate the 4R converter....however the AOD bell should work.

I have the AOD core here, and plan on cutting the bell off soon. I will take lots of pics and have them on the clickclickracing site.

I am game to try your idea though. Only issue I see is FINDING bells...I have none....but I do have C4 164t bell.

Basicaly IMHO, if you can MATCH the distance the converter stud lands measure from the outside of the bell - who cares what bell you installed - that solves depth issue.

Not being TRUE to center would be tough.
The AOD/AODE/4R have a single pump bolt in the middle top...if you had a bolt that was middle top in a FMX/C4 bell then it would surely be pretty dang close.

WIth the JW bell availabel in SFI for to bolt to the AOD for $300, I think the hardest part would be the case machine work, the rest is bolt on.

With your idea, it could potentially be a cheaper, REPEATABLE option that could bring a whole new LIFE to AOD/4R.

With the AODE/4R though we need some more bell housing though...so a machined spacer would be in order.

I am worried about pump bolt holes though....with too much power I hope they can hold up being longer as they will be AND supporting the trans where they did not before or desiged to do.
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Joined: November 18th, 2004, 4:20 am

January 7th, 2008, 4:10 pm #8

If the bell is getting changed and are scarce, what about one from a standard transmission?

The convertor could not care less what it lived in and there may be more of them around.
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Silverfox
Silverfox

January 7th, 2008, 6:51 pm #9

Very good point!
But what has removale SMF bell that is plentiful? Besides t5
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Joined: April 17th, 2004, 8:46 am

January 8th, 2008, 12:24 am #10

i have plans too.
I have a guy on my list that wants a 4R70W to 460.
Our issue is that we need 1" extra bell to accomidate the 4R converter....however the AOD bell should work.

I have the AOD core here, and plan on cutting the bell off soon. I will take lots of pics and have them on the clickclickracing site.

I am game to try your idea though. Only issue I see is FINDING bells...I have none....but I do have C4 164t bell.

Basicaly IMHO, if you can MATCH the distance the converter stud lands measure from the outside of the bell - who cares what bell you installed - that solves depth issue.

Not being TRUE to center would be tough.
The AOD/AODE/4R have a single pump bolt in the middle top...if you had a bolt that was middle top in a FMX/C4 bell then it would surely be pretty dang close.

WIth the JW bell availabel in SFI for to bolt to the AOD for $300, I think the hardest part would be the case machine work, the rest is bolt on.

With your idea, it could potentially be a cheaper, REPEATABLE option that could bring a whole new LIFE to AOD/4R.

With the AODE/4R though we need some more bell housing though...so a machined spacer would be in order.

I am worried about pump bolt holes though....with too much power I hope they can hold up being longer as they will be AND supporting the trans where they did not before or desiged to do.
I have the 460 CID F250 Manual bell housing in my hoard too. If we consider the shock loading effects of the clutch, i'd have to admit that it's probably stronger than any Auto bell going. They are also purported to have 'fragile ears' that hold the slave cylinder in place at 8:00 ( low drivers side ) I found a good one at the local self serve yard for $40 or so but a junker with the ears busted off might make for an easy answer.

What i really like about the FMX/BW12/(Cruiso?)-- Bellhousing plan of attack is that one spacer design may suffice for all 385 series, and all FE series, AOD swaps, maybe flatheads too??.. And as you said, It's repeatable. If we find one guy with a CNC machine that's a bored ford enthusiast, it's over.. maybe even $50 a pop, but we never have a good enough excuse to put a Generic Mush transmission in our blue ovals ever again..

AODE might work with a thicker spacer or just another 3/8 as a block plate. I'll measure up the FMX/BW12 385 series bell and or the truck one and post some numbers for you.

If they can make a SFI Bell that bolts to the pump blots of an AOD this really ought to work out as far as strength goes. It's the indexing hole that carries all the loads except torsional.

Turn the spacer plate blank on a lathe ( a brake lathe might even work ) to get your index holes concentric and your thickness spot on, locate your trans holes with a set of transfer punches. drill and fit the plate to the trans. line up level and the horizontal bell housing blot holes on the bench. Transfer your bell, bolt 'er up, then carve off any scrap.



John Johnson BEng
1968 Falcon Futura Sports Coupe
460 Test Mule C6 3.70:1
Under Construction
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