Deleted Parade

Joel
Joel

January 28th, 2003, 11:47 pm #1

Today I deleted a parade started by a member. Our parades are often lighter hearted than many of our normal posts and a place where people can celebrate their success. Sometimes our parades are a little diversional in nature, but being that parades are limited to one a day we try not to interfere or steer them in certain directions the way we may with other aspects of our board.

We are not trying to regulate parades, although having the ability to delete strings such as we did today makes it possible to do so. But just for the record, we almost never have to delete parades. The only times we have taken parades out is when more than one is started in a given day. In these cases we delete the second parade and attach the string to the first parade.

But today's incident was a parade to talk about a specific diet plan. There are lots and lots of diet plans out there. Just as there are lots of exercise programs, stress management techniques, medications or other medical intervention strategies for various conditions, breakfast cereals, hair care products, detergents, garden supplies and an endless list of other products or services for anyone or everyone. By allowing one specific program or item to be pasted into our parade we would basically be advocating a product and doing a commercial for that product.We are a non-commercial site and more important than that, we are a not smoking site.

Parades and all of our posts should be dedicated to helping our members and lurkers focus on why they want to be smoke free or a real celebration of just being smoke free. Our busiest parades are often the ones that simply ask members to post their stats. Those are parades that a person dropping in with limited time can participate in without committing a significant amount of time, leaving more time to maybe give a little support to people in need or get some needed information in other posts to help secure his or her own quit.

The benefit of these simple parades should not be underestimated, for when a new member comes in seeing strings of 10 or 20 or maybe even more people celebrating days, weeks, months and even years of success they get to see that quitting is in fact possible. We have also had other parades that have been heavily participated in and have really helped to reinforce the message that quitting smoking is a great thing.]Parades like how many cigarettes not smoked parades, money saved parades, lifetime gained parades or benefits realized highlight the fact that quitting smoking is a really positive thing.

The more a parade is designed to reinforce the message that quitting is doable, not smoking is preferable, or reminding every one that life as a smoker was really a pretty miserable existence--the greater the chances that you will be reaching the widest range of people and reminding them that they have come to the right place to stay one hundred percent committed to never take another puff!

Joel
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Joel
Joel

January 29th, 2003, 12:50 am #2

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Recommend Message 1 of 1 in Discussion
From: Birky(green squared) (Original Message) Sent: 1/28/2003 10:24 AM
Sorry guys, I'm guilty of the deleted parade about a diet. I was reading a thread and noticed many talking about the "A" diet. My real point is that for me weight gain is a sure way of putting my quit in jeopardy. I must not be the only one with those thoughts or we wouldn't be talking about diets, nor would there even be reinforcement in Joel's library about the subject. My past quit failed because of weight gain primarily: it made me weak. I refuse to allow that to happen again, so the diet thread. Keeping that scale under control is my aid in a successful quit.
Birky 2mths+
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OBob Gold
OBob Gold

January 29th, 2003, 3:35 am #3

Birky,

Given that Joel pasted your message here, I assume he mentioned a couple of things to you elsewhere, or privately. Just in case....

1) Your past quit didn't fail because of weight gain. Your past quit failed because you took a puff on a nicotine-laced cigarette (or administered nicotine to yourself in another way).

2) Quitting smoking and losing weight are separate issues. With respect to losing weight, there are several approaches, both healthy and unhealthy. Unhealthy ways include nicotine, heroin, cocaine, starvation, regurgitation, taping duct tape over your mouth, eating stones instead of food.... In each of these cases, if the object of losing weight is health, the person practicing the method has defeated that purpose by doing something more damaging to their health than being overweight. If the purpose is cosmetic, they've also defeated the purpose by doing something that is either socially unacceptable or deadly or both. A think heroin junky is unlikely to look more cosmetically acceptable with a needle hanging out of his arm, track marks, blank stare etc. The social attractiveness of a thin nicotine addict is questionable at best.... imagine how the cute girl appears to the cute guy when he introduces himself and catches a whiff of her cigarette breath, or when she smiles and the yellow stains on her teeth are evident, or when she's undergoing chemotherapy.

3) Smoking's role as a weight control measure is highly suspect. True, it has appetite supressant qualities. However, it also restricts (to a greater and greater extent with each passing year) a person's ability to exercise (which most studies indicate is the most effective tool against weight gain), AND it hijacks a person's blood sugar regulation... another system involved in weight control. Think about it for a second....how many non-junkies have you heard advocating a nicotine-centric diet plan?

Finally, there's this thread. I've struggled with weight issues for several years now. Whenever I found my junky-mind considering the "benefits" of smoking in the realm of weight control, I read it:

"I would rather be a little overweight and not smoking than underweight and dead
My non-junky side has no problem seeing the logic there....
.


Not trying to be extra harsh Birk... just saw some very sinister junky reasoning in your words, and thought you might benefit from a little perspective.

Your quit bro,

Bob

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wcsdancer (Gold)
wcsdancer (Gold)

January 29th, 2003, 6:53 am #4

To Joel, Bob, & Birky: I started a thread/parade a couple of weeks ago on size acceptance due to this continuing "weight control theme" that I have seen come up since joining Freedom. I can understand 100% what Birky is worrying about and I think only a female can understand fully her concerns.

We have enormous pressure to be thin. Men are allowed to get wrinkles, loose their hair, and put on weight yet still be considered attractive. We don't have that luxury. We are scrutinized on our appearance in every facet of our lives, from friends to family to lovers and even at work. I see this as a very serious and real problem that will probably never be resolved (thanks Twiggy). It keeps women smoking and harming themselves physically and in other ways (as Bob has mentioned) to meet this demand society has put on us.

I do agree that weight control and not-smoking are two separate issues. But here's the vow we must all take:
I WILL NOT RESUME SMOKING NO MATTER WHAT!
I will not smoke if I loose my job, my dog dies, my spouse leaves me, the world comes to an end, I find out I already have cancer, or EVEN IF I GAIN WEIGHT!
The fact remains even though many don't accept it or don't want to talk about it: some of us WILL gain weight. I'm one of them, even though I am very fit, active, and eat healthy food. I know why I gained weight...it's because I started to eat normally for the first time in my life. I stopped starving myself to death as I used to do by eating only 500 calories a day and replacing all other meals with cigarettes. My metabolism is shot but it will be repaired in time. No amount of additional exercise and no magical diet would have prevented this from happening to me. Am I sorry? No! Will I start smoking again? Never! Do I wish I was thin again? Maybe, but not at the price of my life, lungs, or freedom.
So, I'll will try once again to make this point: Until we are OK with ourselves no matter what, we will always be vulnerable to relapse.
No advice here on the super duper diet or the sure fire exercise plan. I only want to say that who we are is inside of us, it's our heart, it's the way we live our lives, it's the way we care for other, it's the difference we make in this world.
Wow, I guess I got a little carried away. Just wanted to add my 2 cents, or in this case my entire bank account.
*Candy* (fatter, happier, but most importantly Free and Gold)
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Joel
Joel

January 29th, 2003, 7:18 am #5

Hello Candy:

Yes you did start a parade on weight acceptance a while back. And since you didn't endorse a product or a plan that parade remained on the board, as almost all of our parades do. I think I even brought up weight control posts that day because of the parade. But go back and look at the number of people who participated in that parade that day.

There were only five people who participated in that parade in the 24 hour period it was up. Then there were three additional posts tacked on a week later, one being from you thanking a member who brought the post up a second time. That was indeed the smallest parade participation we had since that particular parade which was over two weeks ago.

Again, that is one of the points I was trying to make in this post today. Actually, if the original post today didn't push a specific diet plan we would have let it stay as we did in your parade. But even then it would likely would have had limited participation.

The parades show everyone that lots of people can quit smoking, and generally, the more the parade can be focused on not smoking issues, the greater the likelihood that people are going to participate and the greater the likelihood that the parade is going to get out the message to the maximum number of readers that they can indeed quit smoking and happily stay free as long as they keep their focus on their commitment to never take another puff!

Joel
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wcsdancer (Gold)
wcsdancer (Gold)

January 29th, 2003, 7:51 am #6

Joel, I still think I'm not getting my message through here. What I keep trying to say is DON'T TAKE A PUFF NO MATTER WHAT. That's all. I don't really care if people post on my threads, I only care that people don't sabotage their quits. I knew it wouldn't be very popular to bring up an "it's OK to be fat" message. And you're right, more people respond to stats parades than anything else, heck I'm one of them. But there are many people (especially women) who loose their quits becaue they've gained weight. I have a friend right now who just resumed smoking because she gained 8 pounds in 3 months. I still think more support (maybe not in parade form) is needed in this area and not just the "you can do it, you can quit and loose weight too" message that's heard here so often. *Candy*
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Zengirl SILVER
Zengirl SILVER

January 30th, 2003, 10:14 am #7

I don't post as often as I used to. I am coming up on 5 months now [woo HOO!] and I find myself less and less vocal, although I do come to Freedom often to maintain my resolve.

I read this particular "parade" last night. I had a VERY strong emotional reaction to it, as I am a woman and understand the relationship between the fear of weight gain and quitting.

I drafted a super long, emotionally-charged response, but did not post it. I deleted it because I realized that it might not be met with empathy by everyone. In thinking about what lies at the center of my response to this issue, I can only identify 2 things I feel comfortable stating at this time:

1. Candy, dear, I understand you 150%. You need not further justify your feelings. I am certain that other women understood you too, even though there were not a million replies back with "thumbs up" icons or other cutsie animated GIFs. Some might not want to risk responding to such a post for fear of appearing "shallow."

2. It is not fair to suggest that people concerned about weight loss after quitting would consider "advocating a nicotine-centric diet plan." That is offensive and extreme. How about a little perspective? To be concerned about potential weight gain is not something to be ashamed of.

Becoming a moderate, well-balanced person requires a life of practice. It is a major shift from our compulsive smoker selves, and it takes a great deal of patience.

Much Peace,
Zengirl [almost SILVER]
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richard This is It GOLD
richard This is It GOLD

January 30th, 2003, 1:00 pm #8

Peace to you too Zengirl..... (and Birky, and Bob, and Joel, and Candy...) nice to hear from you again and many congratulations on your almost silverydom.

I'm a guy and (therefore?) don't feel qualified to comment on the emotional side of weight gain and quit/non quit associations. ((Now whether those phrases "I'm a guy" and "don't feel qualified" should be connected is a whole other debate I'm certainly not getting into....))

Suffice to say...... I can see (I think) both sides of this debate thus far.... and neither will be solved by returning to the clutches of nicotine

richard
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OBob Gold
OBob Gold

January 30th, 2003, 1:10 pm #9

I also agree that this is an important issue. Being about 80 lbs overweight, I assure you, women aren't the only ones to feel embarassed about weight, or feel societal pressure with respect to our appearance. More importantly, neither gender is immune to the health effects of being overweight.

So, what CAN freedom do to address the concerns of ex-smokers and thinking-about-quitting smokers on the weight gain issue? What IS Freedom doing?

Freedom is focused on confronting the smoking issue. The scope of what it presents is purposefully restricted to issues directly related to either quitting, or staying quit from nicotine addiction. If Freedom were to expand beyond quitting smoking, and into the advocation of any number of contradictory weight-loss programs, Freedom would lose credibility with a segment of smokers and ex-smokers who didn't agree with the weight loss system endorsed. Beyond some well-accepted principles that are presented here, Freedom is restricted from straying too far beyond its mission.... or risks betraying that mission. The managers of Freedom are not weight control experts; they're smoking cessation experts.

So, the extent to which Freedom can address weight gain without risking its mission is restricted to the extent to which weight gain affects either a smokers determination to quit, or an ex-smokers resolve to stay quit. Weight gain can affect these on 2 fronts.... each predicated on the assumption that weight gain and smoking cessation go hand in hand.

So, there are 3 things Freedom can address, and remain true to its mission:

1) The assumption that weight gain and smoking go hand in hand

2 and 3) the two issues about weight gain that might cause a person to consider either not smoking, or losing their quit: health issues, and aesthetic issues (both individual and societal).

1) The assumption that weight gain and smoking are inextricably linked. Freedom touches upon this. It points to some of the reasons that people gain weight when they quit smoking. In pointing to these things, (more normal eating patterns, blood sugar issues, crutch replacement of nicotine with calories), it indicates some approaches to mitigate the issues. Freedom also makes clear that not all quitters gain weight. It isn't an absolute. There are results of smoking that may lead to weight gain, but there is no axiom that dictates that quitters all gain weight.


So, a person finds themselves gaining weight after quitting. They can look to some of the things Freedom points out, and attempt to identify the problem, and resolve it, they can seek other solutions outside of Freedom, they can accept the weight gain and/or decide to deal with it later, or they can consider returning to smoking as a way to lose the weight.

Here's where 2 and 3 come in. Health and Aesthetic issues.

As weight gain relates to health, Freedom needs to provide an honest appraisal of 1) the health benefits of quitting, 2) their relative value as compared with the risks of weight gain.

It does this. Freedom makes clear that, where health is concerned, the benefits of quitting outweigh the risks of weight gain, until that weight gain reaches extreme levels. At the extreme levels mentioned (a hundred pounds of gain), I believe it's reasonable to assume an external cause of the weight gain beyond quitting smoking.

Health is the first focus of Freedom, and I think it does its job where the health issue is concerned.

As it relates to aesthetics (our image of ourself, the image others have of us), it's hard to say what Freedom can do.

A person finding themselves considering returning to smoking to lose weight for health reasons will hear that the health risks of smoking outweigh the risks of weight gain.

A person considering returning for aesthetic reasons... what can Freedom tell them...

I don't believe that Freedom is a place where a person is going to find self-esteem beyond their success in quitting smoking. A person's decision to be comfortable with being heavier than the societal "ideal" is really something that comes from within.

We can point to the truth though. We can tell them that there is no guarantee that returning to smoking will solve their weight issue. We can point out that they may end up overweight and smoking... a worst case scenario. We can inform them that there are far healthier approaches to lose weight.... exercise, various diets, and medical approaches.... we can point out that nicotine as an appetite suppressant is low on the list of successful weight-loss approaches.

Essentially, the message for this person can only be,

"you're concerned with your weight. That's a legitimate concern. You can either accept it or do something about it. If you choose to do something about it, smoking is about the stupidist way to go about losing it in existance on the planet. Only a junky would tell you otherwise."

I don't see where Freedom can go much further than this.

Being overweight ****. I am, and I don't like it. I'm trying to deal with it, with limited success. But, when I get ticked off about it, I can at least look to last year, and say, look at what you accomplished last year. You quit smoking! You've shown yourself that you can do great things. Maybe you can take some of the lessons you learned along the way, and apply them to your weight problem. This year, I'm trying to take a one-day-at-a-time approach to weight loss, and seeking solutions. I'm exercising more. I'm eating and drinking healthier.

To consider smoking as a possible solution to my weight issue would be utter insanity. Not only would it add immensely to my health challenges, but it would undermine the one thing I'm able to cling to that tells me I can do this: my success with my quit.

Yes, it's absolutely an important issue. Beyond what it already does, I don't see that Freedom can go much further in addressing it.

YQB,

Bob
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Lilycatt
Lilycatt

January 30th, 2003, 3:19 pm #10

Thank you O'Bob. Freedom is a place that must concentrate on nicotine addiction.
I'm struggling with the weight issue myself right now. I'm 60 pounds overweight, yet I would not look to Freedom for help on this issue. I only hope that I can take what I have learned here at Freedom and apply it to my battle with weight loss. If so, I will be a thin ex-smoker!

Lilycat
Proud to be smoke freefor 5 months, 4 weeks, 23 hours
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Jordan(Silver)
Jordan(Silver)

January 30th, 2003, 3:29 pm #11

Hi all,
This all reminds me of an article I read somewhere recently
about how women find it harder to quit than men because
of weight gain fears. I guess thats true.
I went
into this quit with my eyes wide open. I knew that I
could gain weight and I accepted that knowledge.
Thankfully I did'nt gain much. 6 pounds. But...I had
to integrate my quit with some other lifestyle changes.
Bob, you are correct in that FREEDOM is my nicotine
cessation expert. For diet, exercise, and nutrition advice
I usually go elsewhere. And that is fine with me.

The only other thing I can say is that more emphasis
should maybe be placed on "not useing food as a crutch."
Especially with the newbies. Maybe that subject should
be brought up more often. So as to protect a bit more against
future quits being lost because of weight gain.

I think all of you are great.


Gena (bronze)
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jpa01012003
jpa01012003

January 30th, 2003, 7:10 pm #12

As an ex-smoking bloke I can categorically tell any woman out there who is thinking of going back to smoking in order to mask their true weight is .. forget it. I could not go near a smoking woman however young/slim/or gorgeous she thinks she is. These days I gag on the reek. There's a girl at work - who is all the above (and more) got in the lift with her the other day ( used to smoke with her outside ) and I couldn't wait to get out of the lift. It would now be a physical impossibility to contemplate any liaison with any smoking femail. So girls, the way i figure it - is yes go back to smoking and immediately repel 66 % of the opposite sex.
Bye the way .. an 8llb weight gain is nothing - us blokes wouldn't even notice it on a girl over 6 inches tall. So who are you doing it for ? My guess is that the diet industry is trying to con money out of you in the same way as the tobacco industry did.
peace to you all !!!
john
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Joel
Joel

January 30th, 2003, 9:13 pm #13

Now you see why we are a site focused on one thing--nicotine addiction. Trying to get everyone here to see eye to eye on any other issue is going to be time consuming and for the most part impossible. As is the case with so many topics in our day to day lives, we are going to have numerous difference of opinions. The beauty and elegance of Freedom is that we have all these people who have lots of different opinions on many topics who can come together and focus on one area of their lives that they all share in common. The area is that they are dedicated to quit smoking and to stay off of smoking. That is the one common thread that ties our members together.

Now one thing I want to point out about why this string was started. It was never about weight control. The string that was deleted was not pulled because it was about general weight control. It was deleted because it was about "a" specific weight control plan. I am going to bring up Our Courtesies thread in a minute. It clearly spells out why that thread was pulled.

Some people may not like the way we keep our board focused on smoking cessation. But we believe most people are here just for that very reason and we are going to keep it that way. Again, Our Courtesies thread covers how we feel about debating our policies and ways of operation. We really are not a good place for debating, for as management we have what I think is a totally unfair advantage. We can delete the debate and pull memberships so the person can debate no more.

This is a very lopsided and unfair system. But it is one that we will use as needed. For we feel that our mission here at Freedom is so important that it sometimes forces us to utilize our unfair advantage. Our mission is to help people reading and participating here to stay smoke free. We think this mission is important for the real reason many people come here is that they realize that they are fighting for their health and for their very lives.

When it comes down to it, even people who are here for less important reasons, like people who are here because they feel like social outcasts because they smoke or they don't want to smell like cigarettes or they can't stand spending thousands of dollars per year on cigarettes, even these people are fighting to save their health or their lives--they just may not recognize it.

So we are going to focus this site on our true mission. To help people understand that they have the potential to quit smoking and stay smoke free. Whether they are men or women, overweight or underweight, tall or short, any race, creed, religion, nationality, political ideology, or what ever make us all unique or different, people who are going to be participating members here have one thing in common. They are going to be people who want to be here because they are totally committed to stay strong and resolute in their decision to never take another puff!

Joel
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BirkyGOLD
BirkyGOLD

January 30th, 2003, 11:55 pm #14

Hey guys and gals! I would like the last word on this since I started it.

There are many reasons people start smoking; why they quit and how is really universal. Stop taking the puff and never take another puff. But I believe starting is a little trickier. Yes we all took that first insidious puff, but I took mine at the young age of 16 because all of my teeny bopper friends did it to keep thin. It did work for me and weight gain at that point in my life never became a problem again. Yes, my past quits, 3, failed because I took that puff, but I took that puff because I gained weight.
The real hooker for me, was typically after 2 weeks of smoking, the weight disappeared. This quit issue for me requires retraining my brain, hince don't ever take another puff and don't put that in your mouth! I am still a newbie quiter at 2 months plus, and I'm doing great. I've gained 2 pounds and not worried about that at all.

Freedom is the place to come for nicotine addiction, and staying focused on never take another puff No MATTER WHAT. The "no matter what" is the tough part, but very doable. If you are a newbie, stay focused on that one idea, but be prepared to fight the demons that will try to make you weak. Issue closed. Men really are from mars and women are form venus on this issue. Birky 2mths +
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wcsdancer (Gold)
wcsdancer (Gold)

January 31st, 2003, 6:19 am #15

I WILL NOT RESUME SMOKING NO MATTER WHAT!
I will not smoke if I loose my job, my dog dies, my spouse leaves me, the world comes to an end, I find out I already have cancer, or EVEN IF I GAIN WEIGHT!
There is it again...the message I'm trying to communicate but it doesn't get through.
I always agreed with you Joel, that you SHOULD have pulled the "dieting tips" parade. I don't think dieting or weight loss support threads have ANY place on the Freedom site. But if they are going to continuously come up then I only offer people the simple little thought "love yourself as you are" (smokefree of course).
I don't look to Freedom for my self esteem or to help in any area of life other than help in QUITTING AND STAYING QUIT. And that's exactly what I get here in spades. I am grateful as I say over and over and over.
So, I retire my passion for the moment after I give out huge hugs and love to Joel, Birky, Bob, John, Gena, Lilycat, Richard, and Zengirl (yay almost Silver) and those of you who emailed me...what an amazing family.
*Candy*
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OBob Gold
OBob Gold

January 31st, 2003, 6:44 am #16

Hugs back to you Candy (and all the rest)

YQB,

Bob
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TJOHNgold
TJOHNgold

January 31st, 2003, 9:39 am #17

I agree with everything you say Candy but weight is not just a girl thing. Men might not talk about it as much but it is on our minds just as much. I put on a good 15 pounds since I quit. I watch everything I eat, I lift weights 5 days a week . Although I feel great, I have love handles, or fat handles are more like it. Believe me, I don't like this one bit! I used to have a flat stomach and now I don't! Now my goal is to get rid of it somehow, but taking a puff isn't an option! Like that saying goes I'd rather be a little fat and alive than thin and dead. It suprises me to hear of someone who has been quit for a long time thinking about smoking again because of weight gain. I think weight gain is experienced by almost everyone that quits smoking. I don't believe diets work either. It's the way people approach food on an everyday basis that matters. Cutting fat and calories, increasing fiber and fruits and vegetables. And exercise. I find these healthier foods taste way better than they did when I was smoking. (actually EVERYTHING tastes better). I guess my point is, some extra weight is most likely going to happen. But by seperating it from smoking, you can focus on your diet more clearily. And someone mentioned they wouldn't want to be with someone thin that smells like an ashtray. I couldn't agree more!

T-JOHN

I have chosen not to smoke for 6 Months 3 Weeks 1 Day 13 Hours 31 Minutes 7 Seconds. Cigarettes not smoked: 8262. Money saved: $1,445.94.
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Joel
Joel

September 14th, 2004, 8:00 am #18

I saw that earlier a parade got accidentally deleted by one of our managers. You wouldn't believe how easy it is to accidentally erase and entire string when you only meant to delete a specific post in a string. The delete string button and delete post button are usually right on top of each other. I have made the same mistake quite a few times. I honestly don't know how many posts were in that original string so I may be off base here.

Joanne posted a new parade explaining what happened. The new parade kind of went into topic of diversion that I think may have gotten confusing to newer members. I say this because not a single member who has been here for less than eight months has posted to that string all day now.

Again, I might be off base here. There may have been a lot of new members in the earlier version but being that the parade was deleted before 9:00 a.m. I am not to sure that this was the case. I am going to copy the following section from above because I think it may very well apply to what is happening here today:

Parades and all of our posts should be dedicated to helping our members and lurkers focus on why they want to be smoke free or a real celebration of just being smoke free. Our busiest parades are often the ones that simply ask members to post their stats. Those are parades that a person dropping in with limited time can participate in without committing a significant amount of time, leaving more time to maybe give a little support to people in need or get some needed information in other posts to help secure his or her own quit.

The benefit of these simple parades should not be underestimated, for when a new member comes in seeing strings of 10 or 20 or maybe even more people celebrating days, weeks, months and even years of success they get to see that quitting is in fact possible. We have also had other parades that have been heavily participated in and have really helped to reinforce the message that quitting smoking is a great thing.]Parades like how many cigarettes not smoked parades, money saved parades, lifetime gained parades or benefits realized highlight the fact that quitting smoking is a really positive thing.

The more a parade is designed to reinforce the message that quitting is doable, not smoking is preferable, or reminding every one that life as a smoker was really a pretty miserable existence--the greater the chances that you will be reaching the widest range of people and reminding them that they have come to the right place to stay one hundred percent committed to never take another puff!

Joel
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Joanne Gold
Joanne Gold

September 14th, 2004, 10:55 am #19

Thanks for the input, Joel. I actually deleted the new parade I had put up earlier since it sidelined to a diversion. As you mentioned, probably very confusing to most.

Each moment free from the strong reins of nicotine is a reason to be proud, a cause for celebration. Before long there will be another parade up and running.

Guaranteed freedom as long as we never take another puff, it works for me....

Joanne
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