Joel
Joel

April 22nd, 2002, 1:27 am #31

"I want one." " No I don't." "One sounds great." "No it doesn't." "Oh just one!" "Not just one." Sounds familiar? Think in terms of one and you will go back and forth with this internal debate, all day long driving yourself nuts. When you have the urge for one, don't lie to yourself saying you don't want it. You do want it. That is a given. But, you don't want the others that go with it. Taking a puff now means either going back to smoking or going through quitting again. Those are both lousy options.

As far as when will the urge stop, it is not a question of time, more a question of experience. The day to day rituals will break relatively quickly, but new experience happen all the times that you will not learn to deal with until they happen. If you quit in the winter, the first time sitting down at a beach or by a pool next summer will likely trigger the urge because you would not yet have learned to do that as an ex-smoker. You may not go to a wedding for years. The first time is awkward, the second less so, after three or four it may be a non-issue. But this does not prepare you for going to a funeral. Every new experience is another victory when you get through it without relapsing. See it that way. It may have been tough for the moment, but in the aftermath, it was worth it. You are still an ex-smoker.

Also consider how often you wanted to quit when you were still smoking. That was never going away or getting better. Neither side is perfect, but this side has real advantages. To stay on the side where the thought for smoking will get less and less frequent, and the damages from smoking no longer occur always remember to never take another puff!

Joel
Quote
Share

Lilac (Bronze)
Lilac (Bronze)

August 28th, 2002, 8:11 pm #32

I can't imagine how I missed this message. I surely would have remembered it. At first, though , there is so much to absorb that I probably read it and there were other questions and answers, at the time, that were more important to me. The entire message spoke to me this morning but I come away from it with a little ,seemingly, insignificant statement, very simple , very honest.. Joel says, " Neither side is perfect but this side has real advantages". A nice, quiet mantra, without drama , having only indisputable truth. And one needs something indisputable.during those mind battles. Boy, there are a lot of "I"s and "me"s in this post---Oh, well Lilac
Quote
Share

Slycat
Slycat

August 28th, 2002, 8:56 pm #33

Hello Joel:

This is a great point...

I can go days and even weeks without thinking about a cigarette...But than all of a sudden out of nowhere it hits me... Yes, your right when you say that it might be my surrounding or the circumstances at the time. I related smoking to relaxation or excitment... When ever I'm in that situation like on vacation in Vegas or just relaxing on the beach, all of a sudden the wave comes over me... But these days it doesn't last long. If I put it aside than I stop thinking about it.... Than it goes away for the next 3 weeks or so.... But it does seem that it gets farther inbetween.

I guess when you were use to doing something for sooo many years, you expect to still do it. I guess it takes a long time to undue the habits you have come to know for many years of your life. I have found that exercising has helped me to cope with those anxiety feelings. It relaxes me and when I'm breathing hard and sweating, kind of like a cleansing of your body....I can not imagine putting a cigarette in my mouth during that time... I remember what it use to feel like when I did and I can tell you this... It's the most nasty thing and because you are breathing hard from exercising, you feel like you can't breathe when you inhale that poison.......

So I guess everybody has their own way of coping... But I guess that wave will be with us for the rest of our lives because we were addicts... Maybe it will eventually come to the point where we only experience it once a year and that's won't be so bad.....

Judy

18 weeks++++
Quote
Share

A1ex Gold
A1ex Gold

August 29th, 2002, 1:50 am #34

I'm really proud to be smoke free for so long (2W 2D 2h 24m 59s).

It hasn't been as bad as I thought it was going to be, but it hasn't been easy either.

The cravings are getting less frequent but when I do get them they are huge cravings!!

I was trying to reason why I still get these cravings.

There's no nicotine in my body and I gave up because I really hated smoking, so why do I crave a cigarette?

Every time I got a craving I stopped what I was doing for a short while and thought about what I was doing and why that would trigger a craving. What I came to realise is that it wasn't just associations with people and places that triggered my cravings. Over the years of smoking I had used cigarettes as a means of dealing with emotional peaks. As I got more and more addicted I relied on cigarettes more and more to deal with all the stresses and strains of every day life. Actually I now realise that I used to have a cigarette whenever I was nervous, angry, depressed, tired, bored, annoyed, etc. For instance if I got really stressed I would go and have 2 or 3 cigarettes. I would chain-smoke them. Afterwards I would feel much calmer. The reason I felt calmer was not the cigarette but the fact that I had subconsciously associated smoking with feelings of calm and relaxation. I was so addicted to nicotine that I made myself believe that somehow smoking was actually good for me because it helped me to relax. In the process I had subconsciously made myself believe that cigarettes calmed me down. If you believe something to be true you can not only convince yourself but you can actually alter your subconscious. The fact is that smoking doesn't help us cope with any of our problems or emotions. In fact in some cases cigarettes can actually aggravate the situation.

What it boils down to is that the only reason I used to go "nuts" when I got a really bad craving was because I had successfully brainwashed myself into believing that cigarettes calmed me down.

I realise this is "Junkie Thinking" which has identified the problem the next step is how to deal with it.

What I have tried doing is re-associating the feeling of calm and relaxation with drinking water. When I have a glass of water I take a couple of deep breaths and relax. If I succeeded in subconsciously brainwashing myself into believing that cigarettes calmed me down then I'm sure I can do it again with something less harmful this time!!

There's no reason to get stressed about cigarettes or anything else. As they say, it's all in the mind. I know it's easier said than done but if other people, myself included, can do it then you can too!!! It's strange but I didn't think that I would have to re-learn how to relax and calm down just because I quit smoking.

alex.
Quote
Share

John (Gold)
John (Gold)

August 29th, 2002, 2:46 am #35

Don't feel alone, Alex, it's likely that most all of us allowed our emotions to serve as feeding cues. The good part is that it doesn't take brainwashing or even repeated encounters with the same triggers before the subconscious mind abandons them as cues. The subconscious isn't capable of independent thought. It simply reacts to the input provided. That being said, the longer you go between encountering feeding triggers the more you get out of your defensive war posture and the more it may seem like you've been sucker punched or blind-sided when one does arrive.

Alex, if you have not done so already I strongly encourage you to try and make a record of what a triggered crave anxiety is really like. Why? Well, with fewer and fewer left to recondition, their frequency will continue to decline and you will so go days and then weeks without one. What you will be left to deal with are all your smoking thoughts and memories which at times can seem to flood the mind but unlike a true triggered crave, which lasts less than three minutes, our thoughts can linger as long as we allow them.

Here at Freedom the distinction is important in two respects. We can, to a large extent, control the arrival and departure of smoking related thoughts and memories while the arrival and departure of habit triggered craves, or cutting them short, is beyond the abilities of most to control.

The second reason it's important is in relating to the next generation. You'll sometimes see threads by bronze and silver members saying that they had a "crave" that lasted "all day" when what's really happening is that have allowed their mind to become to fixated upon "thoughts" smoking -- for which we can usually discover an underlying cause -- and the thoughts linger on for some time. We just don't want to confuse those in the first few days of their quit into believing that the tremendous challenge of the first few days lasts for months and months. It really isn't fair to them. By making some record of what a "real" crave anxiety attack is like it helps us see and distinguish later the lingering sea of thoughts that can at times flood, fill and linger in the mind. A wonderful post that brings back memories. You're thinking it through Alex . Be proud of how far you've come! John
Quote
Share

John (Gold)
John (Gold)

October 24th, 2002, 9:36 pm #36

The next few minutes are doable by all of us! Listen to the junkie excuse in an honest manner, reflect upon it, and then laugh! Nicotine provides nothing except an endless need for more. For the addict, there is no such thing as smoking nicotine just once. It doesn't make coffee taste better but in fact deadens your taste buds. Nicotine (an alkaloid) does not relieve stress (an acid generating event). It simply relieves its own absence after your body's nicotine reserves become quickly neutralized by the acid producing event!

Try slow deep breaths into the bottom of each lung & a cool glass of water! Clear your mind of needless chatter by focusing on an object, color or happy thought! To continue your healing and adjustment simply never take another puff of nicotine! This isn't what it feels like to be a comfortable ex-smoker. This is one it feels like during this particular day of this temporary period of adjustment called "quitting." Go the distance! It's your birthright to be free!
Quote
Share

John (Gold)
John (Gold)

June 4th, 2003, 7:51 pm #37

Subconsciously Triggered Crave Episode
or
Consciously Fixating on a "Thought"?
True or False - the urge you now feel will end whether you feed it or not? Although almost always small - unless you waited too long between feedings - you were threatened by urges each and every day of your entire smoking life. Two choices but which in the end which promises lasting comfort and a healthy life, and which promises to immediately, again, begin the destruction of your body's ability to receive and transport life giving oxygen?
Which is easier, a temporary period of adjustment that with each passing day witnesses fewer and fewer thoughts of "wanting" or permanent chemical captivity to nicotine's two hour chemical half-life in the human body? Which is smarter?
Unless you are fixating upon a "thought" of smoking - as you would with your favorite food, person or place - the crave episode you are feeling now will not last longer than three minutes but be sure and look at a clock as science tells us that time distortion and longer minutes is part of the dependency recovery process. If you are fixating upon a "thought," fixate even harder but immediately begin viewing the "thought" in honest light.
Self honesty is important. Is the concept of "just one" an honest thought for any true chemical slave? Then why picture just one? Instead try to calculate and picture the number of cigarettes you've smoked so far in your life while playing the "just one more pack" mind game. Picture them all there with you now. What does throwing all your hard work away and having that "one" powerful puff really mean? Do you have enought time remaining to again fill the room with as many cigarettes as you've smoked before serious bad news arrives? I don't know. What I do know is that the next few minutes are 100% doable!
You're going home! Remember, each and everyone of us faced our own biggest challenge. Whichever challenge in the end proves to have been your greatest will someday soon be looked back upon with a smile and pride! There's only one rule - no nicotine today!
Breathe deep, hug hard, live long! John
Last edited by John (Gold) on April 2nd, 2009, 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Share

momat29
momat29

December 1st, 2003, 2:54 am #38

yep,

Hit me hard yesterday at the mall, wanted "just one".

It was my first weekend alone, with no kids, as a non smoker.

Start my new job tommorow, that will keep me busy.

Sonya
Quote
Share

John (Gold)
John (Gold)

May 16th, 2004, 9:02 pm #39

Is it an urge to destroy few more air sacs?
Do you have an urge to clog your arteries a wee bit more?
Is it an urge to relapse and further reducing your life expectancy?
Is it an urge to again give nicotine control of over 200 neurochemicals?
Maybe it's a burning urge to again start trading $$$ for nicotine?
Is it a desire to take a 50/50 chance of killing yourself 14 yrs. early?
What exactly do you have an urge to do?
Freedom or feedem, the choice is yours.
But if you choose relapse, as shown below,
Don't expect compassion from society while dying.
No nicotine today, Never Take Another Puff!

Lung cancer patients fight stigma of disease

Canadian Press
Wed. Aug. 13, 2003

VANCOUVER - Just 14 per cent of lung cancer patients on this continent survive for five years and if those odds aren't bad enough, patients also face the perception they have no one to blame but themselves, according to experts attending a Vancouver conference.

The strong association between lung cancer and smoking (up to 90 per cent of lung cancers are caused by current or former smoking plus secondhand exposure) means patients are stigmatized, speakers told delegates at a session of the 10th World Conference on Lung Cancer.

Even though lung cancer is the most common cancer worldwide, the lack of compassion being afforded such patients is contributing to its low profile in the media, its low level of funding relative to other cancers and even its marginal treatment success rates, said Lynne Robertson, a patient advocate from the United Kingdom.

The fact that lung cancer garners little sympathy stems also from the fact that patients are too demoralized and too sick to put a human face on the suffering of the disease. Some die within months of being diagnosed.

"Because outcomes of treatment are relatively poor, there are few survivors and as such, few patient advocates raising lung cancer awareness and ensuring optimal treatment and support for sufferers," said Robertson.

Dr. Paul Bunn, director of the University of Colorado Cancer Center in Denver, said patient advocacy has to increase so that new therapies can be researched and developed.

Despite the fact that lung cancer claims more lives than cancers of the breast, prostate and colorectal combined, it is those cancers that generate the most research funding and public attention.

In 2000, the U.S. National Cancer Institute estimated it awarded research funding of only $1,200 per lung cancer death, compared to $11,400 for breast cancer and $8,000 for prostate cancer.

Carolyn Aldige, of the Cancer Research and Prevention Foundation, based in Virginia, said the low priority accorded lung cancer means that treatment is "sub-optimal and there is a paucity of support services."

Indeed, a recent study to which the speakers referred found that of 600 stories on cancer in the U.S. print and broadcast media, 73 per cent detailed the personal stories of breast cancer patients and the remainder were about prostate and colorectal patients.

Dr. Diane Blum, a New York Cancer Care delegate, said the 10 per cent of lung cancer patients who have never smoked are particularly affected by the `victim blaming' and have a hard time coping when confronted by "public indifference and judgmental attitudes."

She said such prejudicial attitudes can create a vicious cycle in which people with suspicious symptoms fail to seek medical attention promptly. (Symptoms of lung cancer may include a persistent cough, shortness of breath, spit that contains blood and chest pain.)

But Robertson said research shows lung cancer can be beaten if diagnosed at the very earliest stages of disease, which means that those at risk of developing cancer should be screened.

Robertson said the Roy Castle Lung Foundation, with which she is involved, believes public understanding of the disease could be increased by publicizing the stories of patients who survive, while being careful not to raise false hope.

Dr. Nevin Murray, chair of the International Association for the Study of Lung Cancer and a researcher at the B.C. Cancer Agency, which is one of the co-hosts of the conference, said patient advocacy can have an enormous impact on treatment and care and that is why conference organizers invited patient advocates such as the Global Lung Cancer coalition and others to the conference, which in the past has just included scientists and health professionals.
© 2003 Bell Globemedia Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Quote
Share

Joel
Joel

August 18th, 2004, 8:02 pm #40

This short article is a little dated. I wrote almost 21 years ago. Today we have over 46 million former smokers in the United States.
Quote
Share

Crystal View1.ffn
Crystal View1.ffn

February 5th, 2005, 8:18 am #41

Thank you John, your thoughts below calmed me and brought me back to the peace I normally feel these days. Knowledge and Understanding are a big solace in my quit most of the time.

For some reason, I "felt" like I wanted to smoke on my way home from work today....caught me off guard....I got weepy....WHY is this still happening to me? I knew exactly what to do as soon as I walked in my door....I did....and I found this string. The words express exactly what I needed to hear....somewhat gentle but BIG TRUTH.

Whew! It's past and now I will proceed....Yeh! It's Friday night!

NEVER TAKE ANOTHER PUFF!!!!


From: John (Gold)
Sent: 12/7/2004 8:53 AM
If you find yourself experiencing a conscious thought of wanting to smoke nicotine then it is greatly within your ability to control whether you feed and fuel the fire with more "junkey thinking" or use the opportunity for honest reflection and to set the record straight.
  • There are no taste buds inside your lungs and you did not smoke for flavor or taste. You smoked because you had to ... because it hurt when you didn't.
  • Love, like? Compared to what? Do you any remaining memory of what it was like to go your entire day without once wanting for nicotine? Yes, you found yourself smoking lots and lots, and yes, you don't normally do things you don't like to do, but you and I are true drug addicts, addicted to a substance that hooks 6 times more regular users than powdered cocaine (15% vs. 90%).
  • Stress? Wrong! Nicotine is an alkaloid and stress a serious acid producing event within the body. Acids can quickly neutralize alkaloids. What we did was to add the onset of early chemical withdrawal on top of every stressful event life threw our way. Once we replinished our rapidly falling nicotine reserves the flat tire still needed changing. Never once in your life did smoking nicotine remove a stressful event.
If it's a subconsciously triggered crave episode -- encountering a time, place, event or emotion during which you conditioned your subconscious to expect the arrival of a new supply of nicotine -- then it will be less than 3 minutes in duration but be sure at look at a clock as time distortion during early recovery appears to bes an almost universial recovery symptom.

Katie - After 40 Years! Free and Healing for Three Months, Nineteen Days, 10 Hours and 9 Minutes, while extending my life expectancy 6 Days and 12 Hours, by avoiding the use of 1877 nicotine delivery devices that would have cost me $377.15.
Quote
Share

Joel
Joel

May 1st, 2005, 7:34 pm #42

The original article here was based on the fact that we had 33 million ex-smokers in the United States when I first wrote the letter. Today, we have over 46 million, meaning, we have more former smokers than current smokers in the United States today.

Most of these people still get occasional thoughts toward smoking but still remain successfully smoke free. If you ask these people why they don't take one many of them will reply that as much as they want one they do not want the others that would go with the one and then, all of the consequences that go with the others.

To stay in the ranks of those who have successfully became long-term ex-smokers is as simple now as sticking to your own personal commitment to never take another puff!

Joel
Quote
Share

Joined: January 16th, 2003, 8:00 am

February 4th, 2006, 6:10 am #43

If you find yourself experiencing a conscious thought of wanting to smoke nicotine then it is greatly within your ability to control whether you feed and fuel the fire with more "junkey thinking" or use the opportunity for honest reflection and to set the record straight.
  • There are no taste buds inside your lungs and you did not smoke for flavor or taste. You smoked because you had to ... because it hurt when you didn't.
  • Love, like? Compared to what? Do you any remaining memory of what it was like to go your entire day without once wanting for nicotine? Yes, you found yourself smoking lots and lots, and yes, you don't normally do things you don't like to do, but you and I are true drug addicts, addicted to a substance that hooks 6 times more regular users than powdered cocaine (15% vs. 90%).
  • Stress? Wrong! Nicotine is an alkaloid and stress a serious acid producing event within the body. Acids can quickly neutralize alkaloids. What we did was to add the onset of early chemical withdrawal on top of every stressful event life threw our way. Once we replinished our rapidly falling nicotine reserves the flat tire still needed changing. Never once in your life did smoking nicotine remove a stressful event.
If it's a subconsciously triggered crave episode -- encountering a time, place, event or emotion during which you conditioned your subconscious to expect the arrival of a new supply of nicotine -- then it will be less than 3 minutes in duration but be sure at look at a clock as time distortion during early recovery appears to bes an almost universial recovery symptom.
John
Quote
Like
Share

John (Gold)
John (Gold)

May 29th, 2006, 7:07 pm #44

What Urge Thoughts are Troubling You?
An urge to smoke reflects a golden opportunity to correct any rationalizations, minimizations and blame transference bubbling up around it. It's a chance to heal thinking. If you are troubled by a lingering thought, or find yourself challenged by some romantic dependency fixation, tell us about it and let us help you sort through it. It's why we're here. Troubled or not there's still only one rule, no nicotine today!
John (Gold x7)
Last edited by John (Gold) on April 2nd, 2009, 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Share

JoeJFree Gold
JoeJFree Gold

October 7th, 2006, 9:01 pm #45

An urge to smoke reflects a golden opportunity to correct any rationalizations, minimizations and blame transference bubbling up around it. It's a chance to heal thinking. If you are troubled by a lingering thought, or find yourself challenged by some romantic dependency fixation, tell us about it and let us help you sort through it. It's why we're here. Troubled or not there's still only one rule, no nicotine today!
John (Gold x7z)
Last edited by JoeJFree Gold on April 2nd, 2009, 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Share

Joel
Joel

March 3rd, 2007, 9:23 pm #46

For the benefits of newbies wondering if they will ever stop wanting a cigarette, I thought I would elaborate on this one a little. When we say that the urge hits weeks or months or even years after a quit, it is a desire or a thought for a cigarette that is different than the "urge" experienced during initial withdrawal. Those urges are physiological craves, the body demanding nicotine to alleviate a drug withdrawal state.

The thoughts that happened down the road are triggers of fond memories. The thought is often that it seems like a good idea now to smoke a cigarette. Kind of like the urge you get to clean your house on a slow day. Seems like a good idea for a few seconds, but if you find something better to do, so be it. The same concept holds true for the thought of a cigarette.

Other times there will be thoughts of "I used to smoke when I did this." Not a desire for a cigarette or smoking, but a feeling that your timing or ritual is off. Sometimes there may even be a feeling that you are supposed to be doing "something" right now, but do not even realize what it is. All of a sudden you realize you used to smoke at this particular juncture of time or a specific new situation. Again, it is not that you want or need a cigarette in these two cases, just that the routine was a little off.

Years into a quit though, most days ex-smokers will go days, weeks and maybe even months without a thought. Even days which they call "bad" with desires, they may be going 23 hours and 59 minutes and 50 seconds without a thought, but because they think of it once, they think that was a lot. It really does get easier and easier.

The alternative side, smoking, is constantly riddled with thought of quitting. Whenever you are going to a doctor, a non-smoking friends or family home where you want to visit but cannot smoke, getting a new symptoms or aggravated by a chronic problem, read a news headline or hear a news report on television or radio on a new danger from smoking, have to pay another price increase for cigarettes, find another friend who has quit while you do not, stand outside in blizzards or heat waves or torrential downpour for the luxury of getting a quick fix or experience some horrible withdrawal because you can't escape for a cigarette or heaven forbid, you run out of cigarettes.

Yes there were plenty of times smoking made your life totally unmanageable. Not to mention the times that may come where a diagnosis of a horrible condition that require extraordinary measures to save your life that in themselves are almost as terrifying and painful as the disease itself. That unpleasant scenario still provides a chance of survival. There are frequently the cases where the first real symptom of a smoking induced illness is sudden death. Then you don't even have a chance to save your life.

As an ex-smoker, there may be times you want a cigarette. As a smoker, there will be times you want to quit. Neither side is perfect, but the ex-smoker side has clear advantages. It will get easier and easier over time getting to the point of smoking becoming a thing of the past. The smoking side leads to a much more ominous road.

Keep focused, whether it is hours into a quit or decades into a quit. It was a good decision to quit, maybe the most important decision you have made in your life as far as quality and length of your life goes. To keep the decision alive and continue to reap the benefit, always remember, Never Take Another Puff!

Joel
Quote
Share

fbsmith3
fbsmith3

July 21st, 2007, 12:18 am #47

I passes my first major milestone. Yesterday on Quit day 12, I had a major stress situation involving, money problems and a care dealer trying to "take advantage" of me.

I really wanted a cigarette more than any time in my life. The stress smoke is the only one I never was able to find a solution for.

Well since I would only smoke Dunhill Cigarettes and I hate all other cigarettes, they are very difficult to get. I got through it because of my snobbery.

Happy to say I'm smoke free on Day 13 ;-).
Quote
Share

Suzi
Suzi

September 9th, 2007, 7:47 am #48

I LOVE this post!!! I copied and pasted it into an e-mail which I sent to myself so I have it on my Blackberry to read when I am away from my computer!!! Suzi
Quote
Share

elfarsto
elfarsto

September 10th, 2007, 5:02 pm #49

I was thinking about this the other day during a slight urge. What I realized was that we've conditioned ourselves to believe the only way to stop that craving is by smoking, because it IS the only way to stop it when you are a smoker. When an active smoker has craving it just keeps getting stronger and stronger until nicotine is ingested, but when an ex-smoker has a craving it goes away all by itself! We just aren't used to letting cravings go away because they never just went away by themselves when we were actively smoking.

So really when you get the urge you know there are two things you can do to end it. You can smoke, or you can just wait a few minutes until it passes. For 38 days I've chosen the latter.
Quote
Share

sid808
sid808

September 15th, 2008, 7:52 am #50

Hello Joel:
I have been reading on the message board Craves-Thoughts: The Urge Hits and on the relapse board: the Fallacy of a Good Cigarette. I am finding that you can never read to much or be to prepared if you want to keep your quit. I feel very lucky to have found your writtings Joel on why quit .com and Freedom from Tobacco. I plan on reading more to keep my self prepared at all times. I will be turning Green tomarrow and never want to lose my quit or my life to nicotine. As the days and hours have gone by on this quit, I find that my mind is clearer and I am better able to understand the concepts presented here. I never want to smoke again and Never Take Another Puff is becoming a part of who I am . It's like it is replacing some of the messages and thoughts to smoke in my head. Thank you Joel and everyone at Freedom.

Sid

I have been quit for 4W 1D 18h 18m (29 days). I have saved $238.10 by not smoking 1,190 cigarettes. I have saved 4D 3h 10m of my life. My Quit Date: 8/15/2008 10:30 PM
Quote
Share

rosy
rosy

December 5th, 2009, 8:39 pm #51

Yes - it did, but I did not smoke.
Thanks for this post.

Free & Healing
Rosy
Stopped Smoking for One Month, Twenty Seven Days, 4 Hours and 22 Minutes, by avoiding the use of 1887 nicotine delivery devices. Quit Day : 09/10/2009.
Quote
Share

Zoe1975
Zoe1975

November 6th, 2011, 9:16 pm #52

Thank you :)
Quote
Share

MauriceS
MauriceS

February 11th, 2015, 4:23 am #53

Gonna put it to my list to read.
Quote
Share