Prolonging Withdrawal Symptoms

Prolonging Withdrawal Symptoms

Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:57 pm

March 21st, 2001, 7:23 pm #1

Joel's Reinforcement Library


Pharmacological Aids:
Prolonging Withdrawal Syndromes


"I could ring your neck! What is this 72 hour garbage you are preaching about. It is not getting any better! You lied to me from day one!" This warm greeting was thrust upon me on a Sunday night by an irate clinic participant. Sure, she had reason to be mad. After all, being in constant withdrawal for five days is enough to make any person lose their composure.

While she had every right to be angry, it was aimed at the wrong person. She had only herself to blame for this prolonged agony. For unlike the majority of people in her group, she did not throw out her cigarettes during the clinic session Tuesday night. Instead, she had a couple of cigarettes that evening. Then on Wednesday she took a couple of sticks of Nicorette chewing gum. I then told her that due to the administration of nicotine from the cigarettes and then the gum, she was back at square one. She was angry at me then, too. She wanted to know what right I had to tell her she was failing. But she said she would throw out the cigarettes and get rid of the gum.

Unfortunately for her, she did not dispose of the gum and continued to chew a couple of sticks a day. The next three days were horrendous. Every night she came back to the meeting and complained bitterly. But this is nothing out of the ordinary, many people are suffering in the initial three days. On Saturday, she still complained of bitter symptoms. But she knew that she quit a day late, so this too could have been expected. But by Sunday, it should have been getting better. It was not though, and she was fuming.

I told her the gum was prolonging the withdrawal process. "But it's only a couple of sticks, and it's not like I am smoking." It was her failure to recognize this point that was causing all of her problems. Chewing the gum was exactly like taking a couple of puffs. She was administering a small amount of nicotine - not enough to reach the peak nicotine level she desired, but just enough to reinforce her addiction and cause chronic withdrawal symptoms.

After the explanation she was still defiant. She would not accept that the nicotine gum was causing her problem. The next day, though, she came back to the clinic. All of the other participants had successfully overcome the first weekend. They all talked about how they still occasionally desired a cigarette but no longer were suffering the powerful cravings they had encountered the first few days. As usual, they were visibly calmer and enthusiastic about the progress they had made.

Almost everyone in the group expressed similar sentiment. Everyone except our friend with the gum, who still complained bitterly. And she still insisted she needed a cigarette or the gum to make quitting possible and bearable. In the beginning of the meeting she tried to monopolize the discussion. But soon she realized the group had no desire to sit and listen to her complain of the horrors of quitting. It was history to them, and they had more pertinent issues to address.

Finally, after sitting and listening to all the positive feeling expressed by her other classmates, she started to realize that she was the only one suffering. Our predictions of easing of withdrawal after 72 hours were true. And the only difference between her and the other group members was her first few cigarettes and her subsequent nicotine gum use.

Quitting smoking should be done in a manner which is as easy and effective as possible. Cease all administration of nicotine in any form. In a few days withdrawal symptoms will ease up, and in two weeks will stop all together. Then, to avoid ever having to quit again - NEVER TAKE ANOTHER PUFF!

NOTE: This was originally published in 1986. Since then, a number or similar products, (e.g., patches, gums, nasal sprays, and inhalers currently under development), have been or are soon to be introduced as over the counter cessation aids. The same principal applies to them all - they are transferring the delivery system of the drug nicotine. If the smoker simply stops, withdrawal will peak and start to subside within 72 hours. Use of theese agents will unnecessarily prolong the cessation process as well as add to the expense.


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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:57 pm

March 21st, 2001, 7:28 pm #2

Last edited by Joel on September 3rd, 2014, 2:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:57 pm

July 13th, 2001, 9:35 pm #3

I see where we have a couple of new members who recently have come off the gum or patch. I thought they would benefit from this article. One made a comment I thought was great, how she didn't want to go back and just try it cold turkey to see if it would be better. This is just one of those things you want to learn from other people's experience and not your own. A person who goes back just does not really know if he or she will ever have the strength, desire or opportunity to quit again. Everyone here must do everything possible to make this quit last. Although there is only one thing that each and every person has to do now to stay off now and that is simply remembering to never take another puff!

Joel
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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:57 pm

August 20th, 2001, 7:37 pm #4

Last edited by Joel on January 26th, 2012, 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:57 pm

August 22nd, 2001, 11:29 pm #5

New E-cigarette video touching on the issue of prolonging withdrawals:


Last edited by Joel on November 7th, 2012, 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:57 pm

November 12th, 2001, 12:44 am #6

I saw where a new member today asked Cliff who was just celebrating his 6 month quit if he had gone cold turkey. I thought this would be a good post to bring up in lieu of this question. Basically, all of our members that have joined in this year are all cold turkey quitters, and most of our longer-term members also initially quit that way. There are some exceptions--people who were members here when Freedom was a site that accommodated any smoker looking to quit--no matter how they were planning on doing it.

But over time while we saw that some people had quit while using nicotine replacement, it was a very small percentage as compared to the number of people actually using it and more significantly, we saw these people suffering and complaining of symptoms for weeks and months rather than just days. It really affected the mood and tone of the board--new people coming in and reading desperate and depressing posts of members who have been off smoking for long time periods but complaining of one symptom after another, likely scaring some people in the early days of a quit into throwing in the towel as opposed to having to experience a prolongation of these quit reactions.

So we went to a cold-turkey site. This was a concept criticized at the time as being discriminatory to some, but we felt the need to make a niche site where cold turkey quitters were not having to deal with prolonged complaining and negative imagery that will often be encountered and expressed by people in a prolonged withdrawal state. Our feeling is there is a real need for this site for people who want to try an anything goes approach have plenty of options on the Internet, but people who want to go with a highly focused quit cold-turkey site have a very little chance of finding such a program on the Internet or in their real world experiences either.

The difference of a cold-turkey withdrawal period in contrast to a NRT based withdrawal period will be obvious to any of our members who had quit at the same time as another family member, coworker or friend who started using a nicotine replacement product at the same time that they had just quit smoking. When comparing notes the first few days of the quit you will likely see a lot of similarities in the complaints. But as the days progress, it usually will become obvious that there will be a divergence in experiences, withdrawals easing up and quickly ending for the cold-turkey quitter, while the NRT user still is complaining of constant desires and symptoms.

In the group I just graduated a couple of weeks ago, one man had brought in a family member who had started the nicotine patch just a few days before he joined our clinic. For a few days they likely had a lot to share in conversation, but as the days progressed it had become painfully obvious to him that he was very comfortable and secure in his quit while his family member was still in constant discomfort and her attitude was degrading over time. While it was obvious to him, it was not obvious to her, for she still failed to recognize that while he was happy to be free, she was still complaining and suffering in a way that could have been avoided and even to this day she is still using NRT and still in a state of obvious discomfort.

So basically asking a member here if they quit cold turkey is pretty much an unnecessary question. Even some of our original members who did use NRT products adjusted their quit meters to reflect when they quit the NRT, not when they last smoked a cigarette. Because they recognized that the battle they were in was a nicotine addiction and they got their true Freedom when they finally got nicotine out of their system. At that point they finally got control of their health and they know now to keep that control all they need to do is keep all forms of nicotine out of their system by never administering it again via chewing, absorption through their skin, through their nasal passages, injecting it, and avoiding the most direct route of administering nicotine to the brain-by smoking it-by knowing now to never take another puff!

Joel
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Joined: January 9th, 2009, 9:06 pm

November 12th, 2001, 8:01 am #7

Hi, It was me, Kathryn who asked about the cold turkey. I quit cold turkey
after much crazy **** using the NRT nicotine gum. However, I can see why you
basically have no need right here to discuss it.

thanks for responding though!!

kathryn
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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:57 pm

November 12th, 2001, 9:00 am #8

You are welcome Kathryn. I figured that if you didn't know our cold turkey policy, others may not have known either, plus I suspect many of our newest members don't know of how we evolved to our current state of being here at Freedom. Questions like yours always give us the opportunity to share some of our background and our reasons for how and why we operate here the way we do. I suspect one day in the future you will be able to answer a similar question for another new member. You will know what to answer them and more important than how they quit, you will know how to advise them as to how to stay off now--to be able to tell them from your first hand knowledge that the way you stay free now is by knowing to never take another puff!

Joel
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Joined: January 9th, 2009, 9:06 pm

November 12th, 2001, 9:09 am #9

Thanks again Joel! Smoking is just a hidious, addiction. Not to mention a
difficult one to overcome! I felt that the NRT method, was like a
half-measure. And with this addiction, there is no fooling around. No way.
hense the phrase Never take another puff. The thought cannot even enter your
mind. And if it does, it immediately has to be dismissed as--because one puff
is forever NOT an option! Very simple when you think about it!

That is my plan. To keep it simple. Do whatever it takes to stay away from
that one single first puff.

your friend,

kathryn
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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:57 pm

November 12th, 2001, 12:16 pm #10

Hello Kathryn:

I just brought up a post on pharmacological crutches that really elaborates on the issue you are addressing here. People who see using NRT to help overcome a thought or a trigger as being the "lesser of two evils" are totally unaware and misinformed of what they are dealing with. They see cigarettes as the addiction and are not recognizing the true problem, that they are nicotine addicts.

When I first sent out the letter on Nicorette back in 1984 it was to avoid this same problem, for I was sure that people who were successfully off smoking were going to be encouraged by well meaning family and friends to use this new miracle product to take off an edge and were going to lose a perfectly good quit. The only way to guarantee ending nicotine withdrawal and never experiencing it again is to never administer nicotine in any way, shape or form, which simply translates to not taking nicotine from patches, gums, nicotine inhalers, drops, lozenges, or any other routes of administration a NRT or tobacco company comes up with and as far as cigarettes, cigars, or pipes to know to never take another puff!

Joel
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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:57 pm

December 20th, 2001, 5:08 pm #11

I saw where Linda was discussing her past life, using patches to survive the work day only to succumb to sneaking butts when the patches couldn't deliver the dose needed to elimimate the withdrawal, or more important, to permanently end the withdrawal cycle. Getting nicotine entirely out of your body does accomplish this feat though. Then avoiding ever having to deal with withdrawal again simply entails remembering to never take another puff!

Joel
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Joined: January 7th, 2009, 7:00 pm

May 18th, 2002, 12:33 am #12

Joel,
Thanks for bringing this up. I have never heard it explained quite the way you did. I had been using the patches off and on for years, and it was pure agony. Never enuf nicotine, so I smoked also. I can't beleive how stupid I was, and kept thinking I would get off them someday. That I just couldn't handle NO nicotine, so always kept it going. I actually think using the patches was worse than just smoking, because I had the nicotine going 24 hours. I think it makes for more addiction.
I feel so much better getting the nicotine out of my system.....and it is a relief to not have to agonize over quitting patches AND smoking.
buffey
Five days, 1 hour, 33 minutes and 26 seconds. 151 cigarettes not smoked, saving $22.79. Life saved: 12 hours, 35 minutes.
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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:57 pm

May 24th, 2002, 2:38 am #13

For Ruth
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Joined: December 19th, 2008, 12:02 am

May 24th, 2002, 3:43 am #14

Hi Joel:

This definately pertains to my sister's situation regarding my post today.

I will definately tell her to read it!!!

Thanks...Judy
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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:57 pm

August 27th, 2002, 8:56 am #15

I see we have a few people who found us after starting out with NRT quits. I will bring up a few articles addressing NRT usage--we just want to make it clear that this quit is different because by going cold turkey the person quitting is actually getting nicotine out of his or her system system and will soon be totally out of withdrawal. Then to avoid ever facing withdrawal again is as simple as always remembering to never take another puff!

Joel
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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:59 pm

October 2nd, 2002, 9:57 pm #16

Hi there! Xold turkey is really the way to go.

This is really what is sustaining my quit and what made me decide to stop smoking: nicotine produces addiction. I was a nicotine addict and I am in some way still one. But I am not smoker any more.


The story that this threads relates about makes me think of two episodes in my life. The first one occurred to me when I was nine or ten years old. It is very simple. It was summertime and I was exploring my parents house; I ended up in my parents bed room. After few attempts in opening drawers and looking in them, I found a container with nicorette pills. I took one of them and I expected something to happen to me - I remember the bitter taste and a strange sensation in my throat. I was very disappointed. My father would have taken them to stop smoking. I was not a smoker. What would have happened to me if I was going to take them? I sucked one. But I would take some more the day after.

The other episode is my attempt to quit of one year ago. It was also summer time. I must say that that summer has been one of the most beautiful in my life. My attempt to stop smoking was helped by nicorette gums. My day was marked by hours and hours of chewing. Then I realised that what I was doing it was simply using another way to intake nicotine into my body: the gum instead of the cigarette. My quit would not last. My need for nicotine intake was increasing instead of diminishing. So I picked up a cigarette and I satisfied me nicotine need. This was happening more that a year ago.

In both episodes nicotine plays a dangerous role. Nicotine self-initiation and nicotine addiction.

This time I am quit, really quit, not because I have totally destroyed my urge for nicotine, but because I know my enemy: nicotine addiction. Never intake any nicotine in your body if you wish to be free. My mind is set to overcome the cravings because it knows that they come from nicotine withdrawl. In the past I would give up to the craving, thinking that those symptoms would be unbearable and I would even die or kill myself if I did not smoke.

Now I know that nicotine is causing them. Now I know that they are of short time life. Now I now that they are more and more rare in my day. I know that I am becoming more and more free every day of my life that I will not be in-taking nicotine.

NEVER TAKE ANOTHER PUFF is the law and this will set you FREE.

Quit for: 1 Week 6 Days 26 Minutes 34 Seconds. NOT smoked 234 cigarettes, for a savings of €61.04. Life Saved: 19 Hours 30 Minutes.
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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:57 pm

October 2nd, 2002, 10:41 pm #17

Hello Best Morris:

Your experience is very much the same as people who used chew tobacco or snuff for an appreciable time period before they ever took their first cigarette, became dependant on the substance, took up smoking months, years, or maybe decades later when forced to get off the other source of tobacco, and found themselves established chain smokers almost instantaneously. Their previous nicotine usage established their addiction and cigarettes were just a natural progression now. The same process can work in reverse order too, and often does--where people sustain their addiction to nicotine by switching from cigarettes to a different nicotine delivery source. It is crucial that everyone here understands the problem at hand. It is not cigarettes, nor is it cigars, pipes, snuff, chew, patches, gums, lozenges nor inhalers. It is nicotine--from any source that will re-instigate the body's need for this lethal product. To avoid ever facing the control exerted from nicotine again is as simple as understanding to not administer nicotine from any source, not through the skin by patch, nor by the mouth's oral muscosa by puffing on a cigar, pipe or by chewing or swallowing gums or lozenges, or via the lungs by inhaler or by a inhaling on a cigarette or any other source of burning tobacco, by just knowing to never take another puff!

Joel
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Joined: January 7th, 2009, 7:03 pm

November 5th, 2002, 6:27 pm #18

I remember doing this....and how many times I would rip the patch off on my way out the door from work and run to my car, huffing and coughing, so I could really satisfy my addiction. Oh what horrible days..the NRT trap.



I saw where Linda was discussing her past life, using patches to survive the work day only to succumb to sneaking butts when the patches couldn't deliver the dose needed to elimimate the withdrawal, or more important, to permanently end the withdrawal cycle. Getting nicotine entirely out of your body does accomplish this feat though. Then avoiding ever having to deal with withdrawal again simply entails remembering to never take another puff!

Joel
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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:57 pm

December 21st, 2002, 1:38 am #19

For Jill
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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:58 pm

January 3rd, 2003, 6:25 am #20

I told her the gum was prolonging the withdrawal process. "But it's only a couple of sticks, and it's not like I am smoking." It was her failure to recognize this point that was causing all of her problems. Chewing the gum was exactly like taking a couple of puffs. She was administering a small amount of nicotine - not enough to reach the peak nicotine level she desired, but just enough to reinforce her addiction and cause chronic withdrawal symptoms.



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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:57 pm

January 10th, 2003, 12:55 am #21

For Annette
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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:57 pm

March 30th, 2003, 12:11 am #22

I am not attaching the story below to blame or vindicate the makers of the product in question. I am not looking to discuss or debates the merits of the case. What I think is significant about this article for this board is that it shows the plight and struggles of a man who obviously wanted to quit smoking and reduce his health risks, but who did not realize that quitting was possible without the use of a drug. It also shows the sadness to the family of a man caused by smoking.

Back in January I had a woman in my clinic who was on NRT products for over ten years. She had actually relapsed many years earlier by taking a piece of nicorette gum after being off smoking a pretty significant time period. She said that she was on the gum almost the whole time after that, except for one brief time period when she switched to a patch to quit the gum. She estimated that she spent over $10,000 in NRT products over a 10 year period. She is doing fine now, last time I got an email from her she wrote that she was still, "very confident and committed to being a non-nicotine abuser."

The story below is sad, and it is impossible to say what the actual cause of the illness may have been. Smoking in fact does increase the risk of esophogeal cancer. But what we know is that this man was in some form of withdrawal for five years and constantly fighting an active addiction. To keep this quit simple, cheap, withdrawal free, and never having to worry about the potential of future findings of future long-term usage of nicotine just always remember to get and stay smoke is as easy as just knowing to never take another puff!

Joel

A Good Fight By KEN LEWIS
Staff Writer The St. Augustine Record

Pat Greenfield's husband was an intellectual and a sociologist, but he could not think his way out of an addiction to nicotine. He died of esophageal cancer in April 2000 at the age of 66.

Greenfield blamed her husband's death on the Nicorette gum he chewed compulsively for five years in his attempt to quit smoking. She proceeded in 2002 with the Herculean task of suing the corporation that markets Nicorette, doing it without an attorney.

Her case was promptly dismissed, on a technicality, from federal court in Jacksonville. She had failed to breach the legalese and make a jury listen. She said she could not afford an attorney.

Now she's exhausted, consumed by the case, still brimming with the memory of her beloved husband. She guards her inch-thick pile of legal documents as if it was a living being.

Her story is about failure and hopelessness in the mystifying world of law. It's about her conviction that Nicorette is dangerous, though officials say it is not. It's about her love for Robert Greenfield, her grief, and her wish to fight what she calls "the good fight."

Nicorette

Nicorette is produced by GlaxoSmithKline Consumer Healthcare, L.P., which makes over-the-counter drugs for the huge pharmaceutical corporation, GlaxoSmithKline.

The gum is touted as a "stop smoking aid" to be used for 12 weeks. A user is supposed to quit smoking, then chew the gum to relieve the cravings and discomfort. The instructions say to chew once or twice, then "park" the piece between the gums and the cheek.

Nowhere on the box or in its directions does GlaxoSmithKline say the product could cause cancer or be addictive.

On the upper right hand corner, in blue, is the seal of the American Cancer Society.

GlaxoSmithKline pays the American Cancer Society $1.5 million yearly for use of the seal, said ACS national spokesman Shawn Steward. The money is used for research and lobbying. The relationship benefits both groups, and began in 1996, Steward said. That was the year Nicorette became an over-the-counter drug.

Steward said there is no clinical evidence that nicotine replacement therapy, such as Nicorette, causes cancer.

He said that cigarettes cause cancer because of toxic chemicals in the smoke other than nicotine.

"We're not aware of any connections between nicotine and increased cancer risk," Steward said.

Melissa Dunn, a Glaxo-SmithKline spokeswoman, said "no" when asked if there were carcinogenic effects from Nicorette.

"We certainly encourage people to follow the directions that we've worked so hard with the (Food and Drug Administration). . . to put on those boxes," she said.

In the lawsuit, Greenfield cited an article written in 2000 by Stephen Hecht and colleagues of the Minnesota Cancer Center. Basically, the article stated that tobacco users could be producing a carcinogen in their own bodies after metabolizing nicotine. The carcinogen he discovered is known to lead specifically to lung cancer, Hecht wrote.

He wrote that the carcinogen could be formed inside the body "during nicotine replacement therapy, particularly under conditions of long-term therapy."

But Robert Greenfield died from cancer in his esophagus, not in his lungs.

42 years togetherGreenfield, 71, talks about her husband of 42 years with all the enthusiasm of a new crush.

"What do you say? How do you describe the perfect man?" she asked.

They knew each other for six weeks before getting married. From then on, they were together constantly, first in California, then in Florida, raising two sons and a daughter.

"He was extremely intellectual, a very, very brilliant man," Greenfield said.

He taught sociology at several universities in California, then worked as a criminologist for the state of Florida, she said. They lived in Tallahassee and Jacksonville, moving to St. Augustine Beach for retirement in 1992. Greenfield had been a special education teacher in Duval County.

She said her husband had a knack for understanding "gray areas" and ideas that were not clear. As a criminologist, he could see things that others could not.

He was a passionate man, she said. And he was a smoker. His mother smoked while she was pregnant with him. He started at the age of 13. After more than 50 years of cigarettes, he quit in the mid-1990s, on advice from a doctor. He started chewing Nicorette and could not stop for five years.

In early 2000, a doctor diagnosed esophageal cancer.

Greenfield said her husband asked her to lock up their firearms because the pain was going to be intense. He had 12 weeks to live.

"For months and months and months, I screamed at God, 'Why me?'" she said.

She spent more than a year in profound grief, weeping in church, weeping in Wal-Mart, weeping daily wherever she went.

Then she tried to sue. Greenfield said she talked to at least 30 attorneys, but could not afford their services.

In 2002, she took matters into her own hands, filing a wrongful death suit against GlaxoSmithKline.

She became obsessed with the case and said she devoted at least 1,000 hours of work to it.

U.S. District Judge Henry Lee Adams Jr. dismissed the case in May. He concluded that Greenfield could not bring the wrongful death action because she was not technically her husband's "personal representative."

She wants to appeal, but she doesn't know how. She wants to try again. For now, she'll take a little rest.
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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:57 pm

April 19th, 2003, 9:57 pm #23

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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:58 pm

April 21st, 2003, 8:17 am #24

NRT makes me mad. Madder than tobacco companies. I feel that they are preying on innocent peoples' most basic vulnerabilities by outright lying about their product. I believe that within a few decades many, many people will be suing pharmaceutical companies with overwhelming results, as more and more people die of esophagoal cancer or just continue smoking.

Most basic vulnerabilities? Just try telling anyone who is using NRT to quit smoking how very ineffective it is, and stand back for the rage that is sure to follow. Nobody gets that defensive unless they are vulnerable. And why shouldn't they be vulnerable? They truly believe that they have "quit". Tell them they haven't really quit anything and you've shattered their bubble. . .what? Do you really mean that to quit, I have to go through the pain of quitting?

It is almost useless to try to explain that with NRT they are actually making the pain of quitting worse. They feel they could never quit smoking without NRT. They feel that NRT is much cleaner and safer than smoking, so why should someone tell them they aren't making progress?

It is so hard to lead people to the understanding that:
  • Nobody smokes for the additives and the chemicals that you are so proud of "quitting". Nobody is addicted to smoking. It is not the smoke that is the addiction.
  • Everyone smokes for the nicotine. Therefore, injesting nicotine via another route does not end your addiction. The patch does not make nicotine any less addictive, or any less poisonous.
  • Nicotine is a poison that can kill a full grown man via only one drop on the tongue. It is a carcinogen and a vasoconstrictor. Taking it into your body in any way, shape, or form is dangerous.
I love the people who remark about being allergic to the adhesive in the patch. Ha! How many people are allergic to Band-Aids? Or Masking Tape? IT'S THE NICOTINE, O THEE ADDICTS!

Just venting. . .

Alex

I have chosen not to smoke for 2 Months 1 Week 2 Hours 48 Minutes 39 Seconds. Cigarettes not smoked: 1057. Money saved: $264.47.
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Joined: December 18th, 2008, 11:58 pm

May 3rd, 2003, 12:43 pm #25

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