Prolonging Withdrawal Symptoms

Joel
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

22 Oct 2004, 21:09 #31

I see a few of our members are watching friends and family members who are "attempting" to quit by using NRT products. I thought this string would add a little insight as to what to watch for when dealing with such individuals.
The difference of a cold-turkey withdrawal period in contrast to a NRT based withdrawal period will be obvious to any of our members who had quit at the same time as another family member, coworker or friend who started using a nicotine replacement product at the same time that they had just quit smoking. When comparing notes the first few days of the quit you will likely see a lot of similarities in the complaints. But as the days progress, it usually will become obvious that there will be a divergence in experiences, withdrawals easing up and quickly ending for the cold-turkey quitter, while the NRT user still is complaining of constant desires and symptoms.

Our members have got nicotine out of their systems. They are at the point that they finally have gained control over their addiction, their health and their lives. They know now to keep that control all they need to do is keep all forms of nicotine out of their system by never administering it again via chewing, absorption through their skin, through their nasal passages, injecting it, and avoiding the most direct route of administering nicotine to the brain-by smoking it-by just knowing now to never take another puff!

Joel
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JoeJFree Gold
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

20 Jul 2005, 21:37 #32

The One Great Truth that I found at this site was the Law of Addiction.
This Law is not Nicotine specific. It applies equally to all addictive substances.
I vividly remember reading and then re-reading and then reading again The Law of Addiction.
The Law of Addiction
The administration of a drug to an addict will cause reestablishment of dependence upon the addictive substance.
I didn't get it at first, it took a while to sink in.
Removal of the addictive substance was the answer.
Reintroducing any form of the substance by any alternate delivery method was not just prolonging withdrawal. By FURTHER ALLOWING ingestion of the addictive substance, in this case nicotine, by any method I WAS PERPETUATING ADDICTION!
Image
To get free YOU must Disconnect the Cycle!
TO STAY FREE YOU JUST SIMPLY
NEVER TAKE ANOTHER PUFF!
JoeJ - Free & Silver, always a nicotine addict & a 40-year puffer, now thankfully an X-Smoker 6 months, 9 days, 23 hours, 17 minutes and 16 seconds (190 days).
Refused to use 4774 death sticks and reallocated $950.36 to more pleasureable means.
Most importantly I've recaptured 33 days, 3 hours and 42 minutes to live as I CHOOSE
.Image
NTAP!
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Joel
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

02 Mar 2006, 11:51 #33

The difference of a cold-turkey withdrawal period in contrast to a NRT based withdrawal period will be obvious to any of our members who had quit at the same time as another family member, coworker or friend who started using a nicotine replacement product at the same time that they had just quit smoking. When comparing notes the first few days of the quit you will likely see a lot of similarities in the complaints. But as the days progress, it usually will become obvious that there will be a divergence in experiences, withdrawals easing up and quickly ending for the cold-turkey quitter, while the NRT user still is complaining of constant desires and symptoms, or as Bill has seen--they are still supplementing nicotine delivery with cigarettes.

Our members have got nicotine out of their systems. They are at the point that they finally have gained control over their addiction, their health and their lives. They know now to keep that control all they need to do is keep all forms of nicotine out of their system by never administering it again via chewing, absorption through their skin, through their nasal passages, injecting it, and avoiding the most direct route of administering nicotine to the brain-by smoking it-by just knowing now to never take another puff!

Joel
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Joel
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

18 Apr 2006, 05:28 #34

The difference of a cold-turkey withdrawal period in contrast to a NRT based withdrawal period will be obvious to any of our members who had quit at the same time as another family member, coworker or friend who started using a nicotine replacement product at the same time that they had just quit smoking. When comparing notes the first few days of the quit you will likely see a lot of similarities in the complaints. But as the days progress, it usually will become obvious that there will be a divergence in experiences, withdrawals easing up and quickly ending for the cold-turkey quitter, while the NRT user still is complaining of constant desires and symptoms, or as Bill has seen--they are still supplementing nicotine delivery with cigarettes.

Our members have got nicotine out of their systems. They are at the point that they finally have gained control over their addiction, their health and their lives. They know now to keep that control all they need to do is keep all forms of nicotine out of their system by never administering it again via chewing, absorption through their skin, through their nasal passages, injecting it, and avoiding the most direct route of administering nicotine to the brain-by smoking it-by just knowing now to never take another puff!

Joel
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Joel
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

24 Aug 2006, 21:16 #35

While this letter was about the limitations of the use of NRT, its opening paragraphs highlights another problem. Here is what it says:
""I could ring your neck! What is this 72 hour garbage you are preaching about. It is not getting any better! You lied to me from day one!" This warm greeting was thrust upon me on a Sunday night by an irate clinic participant. Sure, she had reason to be mad. After all, being in constant withdrawal for five days is enough to make any person lose their composure.
While she had every right to be angry, it was aimed at the wrong person. She had only herself to blame for this prolonged agony. For unlike the majority of people in her group, she did not throw out her cigarettes during the clinic session Tuesday night. Instead, she had a couple of cigarettes that evening."
There are people who think that they should start counting their easing of physical withdrawal (the first 72 hour period) from the time that they began their quits, even in the event that they smoked a few her and there after they said they had quit. Any measurement of time needs to be based on the moment the person last took nicotine--whether it was by a cigarette, cigar, pipe, chewing tobacco, or any NRT product.

Another post that ties into this concept is Quitting by gradual withdrawal.

Here is how that article explains this same problem:
Quitting by Gradual Withdrawal





Quitting by the gradual withdrawal method. I discuss this method quite extensively in my seminars. I always tell how if there is anyone attending who knows a smoker who they really despise they should actively encourage them to follow the gradual withdrawal "cut down" approach. They should call them up ever day and tell them to just get rid of one cigarette. Meaning, if they usually smoke 40 a day, just smoke 39 on the first day of the attempt to quit. The next day they should be encouraged to smoke only 38 then 37 the next day and so on. Then the seminar participant should call these people every day to congratulate them and encourage them to continue. I must reemphasize, this should only be done to a smoker you really despise.

You see, most smokers will agree to this approach. It sounds so easy to just smoke one less each day. Thirty-nine cigarettes to a two pack a day smoker seems like nothing. The trick is to convince the person that you are only trying to help them. For the first week or two the one downside is you have to pretend to like the person and you have to talk to them every day. They won't whine to bad either. When they are down to 30 from 40, they may start to complain a little. You really won't be having fun yet. When the payoff comes is about three weeks into scam. Now you've got them to less than half their normal amount. They are in moderate withdrawal all the time.

A month into the approach you've got them into pretty major withdrawal. But be persistent. Call them and tell them how great they are doing and how proud you are of them. When they are in their 35th to 39th day, you have pulled off a major coup. This poor person is in peak withdrawal, suffering miserably and having absolutely nothing to show for it. They are no closer to ending withdrawal than the day you started the process. They are in chronic withdrawal, not treating him or herself to one or two a day, but actually depriving him or herself of 35 to 40 per day.

If you want to go in for the kill, when you got them down to zero, tell them don't worry if things get tough, just take a puff every once in a while. If you can get them to fall for this, taking one puff every third day, they will remain in withdrawal forever. Did I mention you really should despise this person to do this to them? It is probably the cruelest practical joke that you could ever pull on anyone. You will undercut their chance to quit, make them suffer immeasurably and likely they will at some point throw in the towel, return to smoking, have such fear of quitting because of what they went through cutting down, that they will continue to smoke until it kills them. Like I said, you better really despise this person.

Hopefully there is no one you despise that much to do this to them. I hope nobody despises themselves enough to do this to themselves. Quitting cold turkey may be hard but quitting by this withdrawal technique is virtually impossible. If you have a choice between hard and impossible, go for hard. You will have something to show at the end of a hard process, but nothing but misery at the end of an impossible approach. Quit cold and in 72 hours it eases up. Cut down and it will basically get progressively worse for weeks, months, years if you let it.

I should mention, this is not a new technique. It has been around for decades. Talk to every long-term ex-smoker you know. Try to find one person who successfully used the cut down approach, gradually reducing to eventual zero over weeks or months. You will be hard pressed to find even one person who fits this bill. One other perspective that should help you see the flaw in the approach. Look at people here who had once quit for months or years and then relapsed. One day, after such a long time period, they take a drag and are smoking again. If one puff can do this after years or decades, guess what it will do after days or hours of being smoke free. It puts the smoker back to square one. All that any ex-smoker has to do to avoid relapse or chronic withdrawal is to - NEVER TAKE ANOTHER PUFF!

Joel
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Joel
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

20 Nov 2006, 03:19 #36

I saw where a member was writing about his daughter and her husband quitting now at the same time--the husband using the patch while the daughter was going cold turkey.


The difference of a cold-turkey withdrawal period in contrast to a NRT based withdrawal period will be obvious to any of our members who had quit at the same time as another family member, coworker or friend who started using a nicotine replacement product at the same time that they had just quit smoking. When comparing notes the first few days of the quit you will likely see a lot of similarities in the complaints. But as the days progress, it usually will become obvious that there will be a divergence in experiences, withdrawals easing up and quickly ending for the cold-turkey quitter, while the NRT user still is complaining of constant desires and symptoms, or as Bill has seen--they are still supplementing nicotine delivery with cigarettes.

Our members have got nicotine out of their systems. They are at the point that they finally have gained control over their addiction, their health and their lives. They know now to keep that control all they need to do is keep all forms of nicotine out of their system by never administering it again via chewing, absorption through their skin, through their nasal passages, injecting it, and avoiding the most direct route of administering nicotine to the brain-by smoking it-by just knowing now to never take another puff!

Joel


Another resource discussing this issue is this video:
Title Dialup Highspeed Audio Length Date added
My first encounter with NRT 3.99mb 16.11mb 2.13mb 14:37 11/16/06
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JoeJFree Gold
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

10 Jan 2007, 01:29 #37

From: ImageImageJoeJFree-Gold- Sent: 7/20/2005 9:37 AM
The One Great Truth that I found at this site was the Law of Addiction.
This Law is not Nicotine specific. It applies equally to all addictive substances.
I vividly remember reading and then re-reading and then reading again
The Law of Addiction
The administration of a drug to an addict will cause reestablishment of dependence upon the addictive substance.
I didn't get it at first, it took a while to sink in.
Removal of the addictive substance was the answer.
Reintroducing any form of the substance by any alternate delivery method was not just prolonging withdrawal. By FURTHER ALLOWING ingestion of the addictive substance, in this case nicotine, by any method
I WAS PERPETUATING ADDICTION!
Image
To get free YOU must Disconnect the Cycle!
TO STAY FREE YOU JUST SIMPLY
NEVER TAKE ANOTHER PUFF!

JoeJFree 729 todays
Reply

John (Gold)
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

10 Mar 2007, 05:19 #38

A quitter's cries
by Jennifer Dyck

Mar 09 2007
- Vernon Morning Star, Vernon, British Columbia, Canada
Sitting more than two months into my fight for freedom against nicotine and I am still finding myself saying 'ahhhh, how nice it would be to have a cigarette.'
I would have thought that by now those cravings would have disappeared. That the constant day dreaming about enjoying a cigarette wouldn't occur since I kicked smoking out of my life Jan. 1 (since then haven't smoked more than 950 cigarettes, saved more than $350 and about seven days of my life).
Instead, those cravings seem to be even harder to resist and my mind is constantly thinking about smoking, which is taking up a lot of my time.
This week seems to be the hardest yet as it is my first week off of the nicotine patch.
The patch is supposed to be an eight-week program. Everyday you slap a patch on a different spot on your upper body (and let me tell you, trying to find a different spot that you can reach and can be cover up with clothing each time is a task on its own).
The patch then over 24 hours delivers nicotine into your system. As you move through the program the amount of nicotine is reduced.
This helps you kick the habit of smoking while eliminating any nicotine withdrawals. It slowly weans you off of nicotine, like a mother getting their child off the bottle, one step at a time.
But what it doesn't do is prepare you for the withdrawals to come when you take that patch off once and for all.
So for fear of this I even prolonged the program and took the patch for an extra week.
See what gets me is the patch people make it seem like as soon as that eight weeks is over, you're a non-smoker. Poof, just like that. They even give you these little pamphlets to help you through the program but don't tell you that it's going to be quite difficult when you stop using their product (now I see why people get addicted to the nicotine patch or gum).
But I came to the realization last weekend that I have to face my life without this drug one day.
I can live nicotine free.
And so I ripped the patch off my irritated skin.
The first day was OK, only because I spent it lying around in my pajamas watching Rocky movies.
But after the first day or so it didn't take long for withdrawal to start kicking my rear end.
Hot flashes, cold flashes, irritability, restlessness, lack of energy, frustration, depression and a major lack of concentration.
All of this is very hard on a person (particularly on a person who is dealing with her fair share of personal stresses).
Therefore I find myself slipping even more often. Trying to cope with life's battles while under stress of withdrawal symptoms only makes me want a cigarette even more. Because it was my dear old cigarettes that were my crutch to lean on in hard times and now I am trying to get through without them.
I haven't completely relapsed though and am not back smoking what I would regularly smoke. On average, when I do fail to fight the cravings I will smoke one cigarette a day, which compared to the 15 a day I used to **** back, is pretty darn good. Especially considering the circumstances.
So I see all this as a rough patch. Something I can get over. Something that may see me slip many times, but it does not mean that I will continue smoking. I will beat this awful addiction. For I am a quitter.
© Copyright 2007 Vernon Morning Star

The Secret to Quitting Smoking
by [url=mailto:john@whyquit.com]John R. Polito[/url]
Sadly, millions of smokers are being intentionally deprived of the most important quit smoking lesson of all, that nicotine dependency recovery is one of the few challenges in life where being 99% successful all but assures 100% defeat.
ImageMost quit smoking authorities teach that it takes a specified number of failed quitting attempts before the average smoker succeeds. What they fail to reveal is the precise lesson eventually learned, so that years of trial and error can be avoided. Joel Spitzer isn't one of them. A thirty-year full-time Chicago smoking cessation counselor, Spitzer calls it the "Law of Addiction," that just one powerful puff of nicotine is all it takes to foster relapse and destroy a quitting attempt.

Within 72 hours of ending all nicotine use the body and mind are nicotine-clean and withdrawal has peaked in intensity. The lesson eventually gleaned from the school of hard-quitting-knocks is that there is a bright line in the sand which says, "if I smoke just one cigarette I'll be throwing all my hard work out the window. I'll smoke another. I'll either end up back at the starting line enduring another 72 hours of nicotine withdrawal and detox, or accept the fact that I'm again a full-fledged smoker."

Although Spitzer's insights flow from and are confirmed by the more than 350 six-session two-week quitting clinics he has conducted since 1976, his clinical observations are backed by research. A 1990 study entitled "Postcessation Cigarette Use: The Process of Relapse" found that 93.5% who lapsed and "tasted" one cigarette during the first three months of quitting went on to experience full relapse to smoking.

Published in the journal Addictive Behaviors, the study found that nearly half (46.7%) who lapsed smoked a second cigarette within 24 hours of the first, that one in five (20.7%) smoked it within an hour, but that the average time between smoking the first and second cigarette was 9 days. Interestingly, the study also found that nearly half of lapses occurred after drinking alcohol.

Recent research has found that the brain's dopamine pathways not only produce a powerful dopamine "aaah" sensation in response to nicotine's arrival but record the associated smoking event and "aaah" in high definition memory, what researchers call "pay attention," "survival" or "salient" memories. While most memory disorders involve an inability to remember, nicotine dependency is about remembering too well - an inability to forget.

But both formal and informal discovery and mastery of the "Law of Addiction" has become increasingly difficult. In June 2000 the U.S. government turned its back on nicotine cessation by adopting a policy advocating nicotine replacement or bupropion use by all quitters unless pregnant, underage or possibly due to other health considerations. Doing so instantly destroyed the standing, credibility and backing of nearly all nicotine cessation programs.

Amazingly, the U.S. Public Health Service continues to actively discourage nicotine cessation, the quitting method it admits is responsible for producing nearly 90% of all long-term successful quitters, a finding confirmed by a 2006 Australian study. Instead it teaches those dependent upon nicotine that replacing nicotine is key to quitting, that nicotine is medicine and its use therapy, lessons that obviously interfere with and muddy a natural learning process.

Although each new magic pharmaceutical cure has promised to at least double cessation rates, the latest being Chantix or Champix (both varenicline) it simply has not happened. In October the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) was forced to report that the U.S. smoking rate had failed to decline for the first time since 1997. What the CDC fails to realize is that although allowing pharmaceutical influence to write U.S. cessation policy has been highly profitable for the pharmaceutical industry it is damaging natural learning of the "Law of Addiction."

What the CDC continues to keep secret is that although replacement nicotine performed twice as well as placebo inside randomized clinical trials, that it has never prevailed over those quitting without it in any real-world performance survey conducted to date (California, Minnesota, Quebec, London, Western Maryland, U.K., and Australia). What it keeps secret is that just 7% of over-the-counter NRT users are still not smoking at six months and the success rate for second time users is near 0%.

Since June 2000 Joel Spitzer has served as education director at WhyQuit, one of the last surviving nicotine cessation programs. There Spitzer teaches all new arrivals the Law of Addiction, that their first quitting attempt can be their last so long as they make and stick to a personal commitment to ... just one day at a time, Never Take Another Puff!
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Joel
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

09 May 2007, 03:06 #39

I just saw a comment made in today's parade from a member who said she was feeling a bit discouraged because a number of people who quit about six weeks ago using alternative methods, ie, patches, gums, etc., all seemed to be relapsing now. (The message was since removed by the author. I had written this same response but it had a whole lot of embedded coding so I am editing out those unnecessary codes. The concept of the message though is still worthwhile.)

Yesterday I had an email from a person who was feeling discouraged because she had "relapsed" after five weeks of being on nicotine gum. The response I wrote to her applies to the people this member knows.

No one reading her who is going cold turkey should be discouraged, or at least worried or surprised that people "quitting" by using these products do not seem to succeed. Their attempt have very little in common with people who quit cold turkey. People who used NRT products have not really taken steps to break free from their addiction--all they have done is transfer their delivery methods.

Those who have actually stopped delivering nicotine are in a whole different state of being, actually breaking the grip that nicotine once exerted on them. Here is part of the response I sent to the person writing me yesterday.

XXXX, for all practical purposes you did not relapse back to an addiction five weeks into your quit, you just never really broke free from your addiction. All you did was transfer your delivery method of nicotine.

Here is a video that also discusses this issue, as well as a couple of others that touch on the topic:
Video Title
Dial-Up
HS/BB
Audio
Length
Added
My first encounter with NRT
14:37
11/16/06
Quitting by gradual withdrawal
07:13
10/18/06
How did the people you know quit smoking?
05:10
09/27/06
When you are really ready to quit I suggest you check out this video and all of the resources we have made freely available at www.whyquit.com.
Video Title
Dial-Up
HS/BB
Audio
Length
Added
11:07
11/21/06
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Just Hannes
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

23 Jul 2007, 22:13 #40

People who used NRT products have not really taken steps to break free from their addiction--all they have done is transfer their delivery methods.
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