Once and for all, there is no Nicodemon

Joel
Joel

12:31 AM - Jun 10, 2004 #1

There is no "Nicodemon"

The in-depth view of why we don't embrace the term of "Nicodemon."

Nicodemon seems to give the impression of an evil persona associated with the chemical nicotine. Nicotine is no more evil than arsenic or carbon monoxide or hydrogen cyanide--all chemicals found in tobacco smoke. Although nicotine is unique among the thousands of other chemicals that comprise tobacco smoke because it is the addictive chemical in tobacco.

Even so, the idea that nicotine is somehow calling to a smoker who is off smoking for weeks or months is quite inaccurate. It is the person himself or herself whose own mind is creating the desire from triggers that he or she is experiencing. Those triggers are also not evil, they are just life events being experienced for the first time.

I think the problems I have with the terms is they make nicotine seem to have more power than it actually does. The personification given to it can make an individual feel that nicotine has the potential of tricking him or her into smoking. An inanimate object such as a chemical has no such power. As John has said often nicotine has an IQ of zero. People do not overcome the grip of chemical addictions by being stronger than the drug but rather by being smarter than the drug.

Lets not give nicotine more credit than it is due. Lets not make it some cute and cuddly or evil and plotting entity--it is a chemical that alters brain chemistry. It is no different than heroin, cocaine or alcohol. These drugs don't have cute names given to them either and giving them to nicotine can start to make it seem different than these other substance--more trivial or less serious in a way. Nicotine is not more trivial than other drugs of addiction and in fact kills more people than all other drugs of addiction combined.

I think the only place where I think I have ever appreciated the term "Nicodemon" is in this one string. Because in this one post the lies that people make up in order to secure their continued use of a deadly drug are all dispelled in one quick swoop. It has a short, simple and catchy title that seems to fit the logic used in this piece very well--Nicodemon Lies. But anyone reading this whole article and the associated links quickly will realize that these are not the lies of a demon, these are the lies made up by an addict rationalizing, legitimizing, defending and protecting his or her drug use. They are the lies that people make up and tell themselves to defend the otherwise un-defendable.

People cannot rationalize the reason that they smoke with truths; they can only do it with lies. More important for people here though is that a person cannot secure his or her quit by telling himself or herself lies either, but he or she can secure his or her quit by telling himself or herself the truth. The truth is that the only way to keep yourself smoke free is to simply accept the truth that to stay smoke free you must never take another puff!

Joel



Originally in the string Nicodemon's Lies?


New video addressing this issue added August 5, 2012



Last edited by Joel on 1:09 PM - Sep 06, 2012, edited 2 times in total.
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Joel
Joel

3:41 AM - Jun 10, 2004 #2

smurfetteirl Sent: 6/9/2004 2:04

Thanks joel, it bugs me to hear it too,
never give nicotine any power
Last edited by Joel on 8:46 PM - Feb 15, 2009, edited 2 times in total.
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johnny L irish
johnny L irish

3:59 AM - Jun 10, 2004 #3


Thanks, Joel -

One of my favorite parts in Nicodemon Lies is John's closer about there being no such thing, that it has no I.Q., is merely an alkaloid compound with such-and-such a formula. To "assign" nicotine a personality is ludicrous. It does not carry sensible faculties around with it, i.e., the ability to see, touch, hear, smell and taste -- that is, characteristcs common to a living thing. How ridiculous, giving it a seat next to the driver and then, of all things, daring it to take the driver's seat. Brother.

Johnny

116 days quit

Last edited by johnny L irish on 8:45 PM - Feb 15, 2009, edited 1 time in total.
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kattatonic1 gold4
kattatonic1 gold4

1:46 AM - Jul 11, 2004 #4

This thought might be useful to some:
When I used the term nicodemon in the past, I was really talking about my inner junkie voice. That was not a difficult conversion in thinking for me. After reading here, everytime I wanted to blame nicotine for something or personify it, I just flipped the thought from something like "the nicodemon is calling me" to "my addiction has been triggered by X today".

~ Kay ~
Celebrating 6 months + of Freedom~!
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Sea Two
Sea Two

8:46 PM - Aug 13, 2004 #5

Oooops......my apologies. Never really read that one, just saw the term, and obviously read it out of context.
NTAP !!!!
Gabrielle - Free and Healing for One Month, Fifteen Days, 7 Hours and 42 Minutes, while extending my life expectancy 3 Days and 3 Hours, by avoiding the use of 906 nicotine delivery devices that would have cost me $127.14.
Last edited by Sea Two on 8:46 PM - Feb 15, 2009, edited 1 time in total.
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GreenSolveg
GreenSolveg

6:49 PM - Aug 18, 2004 #6

Last edited by GreenSolveg on 8:30 PM - Feb 15, 2009, edited 1 time in total.
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Joel
Joel

1:21 AM - Mar 31, 2005 #7

This thread kind of has its own theme song now...




Reply
Delete Message 1 of 2 in Discussion
From: lisamiano (Original Message) Sent: 3/30/2005 11:05 AM
I hope John doesn't mind....

Imagine there's no nicodemon,
It's easy if you try,
No inner junkie,
To tempt us from inside,
Imagine all the addicts
living for today...
Imagine there's no withdrawl,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to crave or want for,
No NRT too,
Imagine all the addicts
living life in peace...
Imagine no frustrations,
I wonder if you can,
No need for midnight store runs,
For a pack or a can.
Imagine all the addicts
Understanding their addiction ...
You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And read the truth on this forum.


John (Gold)

Last edited by Joel on 4:41 PM - Jul 10, 2009, edited 3 times in total.
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ZZRSteve GOLD
ZZRSteve GOLD

8:39 AM - May 14, 2005 #8

Last edited by ZZRSteve GOLD on 4:59 PM - Jul 10, 2009, edited 1 time in total.
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Joel
Joel

10:45 PM - Jul 13, 2005 #9

I see where a new member apparently picked up the term Nicodemon from a real world setting. It made me start to wonder if the term is actually working its way into live conversations in the real world. Since we're dealing with a cross section of people here who are basically from many areas from around the world, I thought I'd pose the question here on the board.

Has anyone else ever encountered the use of the term nicodemon in conversations with others in their real world settings--especially from people who are not likely to use any Internet Support sites on smoking cessation?
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ElevenPinkFlowers
ElevenPinkFlowers

7:22 PM - Jul 19, 2005 #10

Hi Joel,

yes: A friend of mine who, quit four months before me, uses the term (pronounced in a German way, of course). Sometimes, she says "Nicotine Monster", too.

She quit with the help of a real-life seminar that was sponsored through work. It is very interesting: She works in the pharmaceutical industry, and still, her employer asked a tutor to come in and help people to quit cold turkey.

Apparently, the tutor used the term in the seminar to help people imagine how they could want to smoke and yet know that it would kill them one day.

I heard the term from my friend first, before going online, stumbling over it on the Internet, and before finally finding Freedom.

PinkFlowers
Free since 2 March 2005
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Joel
Joel

9:32 PM - Jul 19, 2005 #11

I suspect the course instructor picked up the term from doing "research" on online support forums--although without asking her we can never know for sure. Your observation about the pharmeutical employer engaging a cold turkey program is interesting. It made me think of this comment in the post Clinic Does More Than Blow Smoke: Stop-Smoking Zealot's Nagging Really Works:
One man told about going to a business meeting at Philip Morris. When Spitzer learned he was going to the meeting, he traced him to a Detroit hotel and woke him at 6:30 a.m. to warn him not to take another puff.
"There were 22 of us around the table at that meeting at Philip Morris," the former smoker related, "and would you believe it, not a single person smoked."
Industry insiders are often the best informed and have the most thorough understanding of the products they produce. It appears that this pharmaceutical company knew enough to want to save their own employees health by helping them to go cold turkey. Hopefully, they also got the message out to them that to stay free once quit is as simple as knowing to never take another puff.

Joel
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JoeJFree Gold
JoeJFree Gold

1:24 AM - Feb 08, 2006 #12

Joel Says - I think the problem I have with the term is it makes nicotine seem to have more power than it actually does. The personification given to it can make an individual feel that nicotine has the potential of tricking him or her into smoking. An inanimate object such as a chemical has no such power. As John has said often nicotine has an IQ of zero. People do not overcome the grip of chemical addictions by being stronger than the drug but rather by being smarter than the drug.
  • Nicodemon seems to give the impression of an evil persona associated with the chemical nicotine.
  • Nicotine is no more evil than arsenic or carbon monoxide or hydrogen cyanide--all chemicals found in tobacco smoke.
  • Although nicotine is unique among the thousands of other chemicals that comprise tobacco smoke because it is the addictive chemical in tobacco.
Lets not give nicotine more credit than it is due.

Lets not make it some cute and cuddly or evil and plotting entity--it is a chemical that alters brain chemistry. It is no different than heroin, cocaine or alcohol. These drugs don't have cute names given to them either and giving them to nicotine can start to make it seem different than these other substance--more trivial or less serious in a way. Nicotine is not more trivial than other drugs of addiction and in fact kills more people than all other drugs of addiction combined.
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JoeJFree Gold
JoeJFree Gold

1:15 PM - Feb 21, 2006 #13

There is no NicoMonster, no Mr Nic or Mrs. Nic or Tricky Nic ar any other cute name or personification.

Nicotine is a chemical substance. We don't fight it, we get rid of it because it is NOT supposed to be in our blood chemistry to begin with! We are designed to operate without the presence of nicotine. We have control of our actions and what is put in our bodies, not some phantom Non-Existant 'nico demon/ monster'

We each hold the key to living our lives in our own control and free by deciding daily to Not Take Any Puffs.

...and all ya gotta do is live naturally.
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Joel
Joel

8:57 PM - Feb 21, 2006 #14

From the string The Teaching of Conventional Wisdom at Freedom
Conventional Wisdom and Quitting Smoking

We always want to be careful about giving advice that is considered conventional wisdom, sounds great on paper, and is basically wrong for most people trying to quit smoking.

Things like the idea of feeling you have to wait till a certain day of the week, or prepare for a certain time period gives many people the excuse to put off a quit that they may be ready to do at the point in time that they show up. Putting off a quit to the "right time" has caused many a smoker to put it off till death.

Some people advise people to sleep through the quitting process. Sleeping as much as you can teaches a smoker in the midst of a quit how to be a prisoner in bed as opposed to how to start to live life as soon as he or she can. Some people, if totally exhausted or sleepy from the withdrawals may need the sleep, but they are not the majority. If a person is tired and needs sleep, staying in bed is fine--but if they are doing it as an escape, they are slowing up their psychological adjustments more than helping them. There are plenty of other such tidbits of wisdom out there, such as carry cigarettes to show how strong you are or give up coffee or change all of your daily routines that have many advocates but is still not necessarily right for the majority of people.

We have a Quit Smoking Tip Sheet that gives a few tried and true techniques, not all inclusive by any means, but a starting point. Keep in mind, this list in controversial in most places, especially when considering the first line reads "Quit cold turkey. In the long run it's the easiest and most effective technique of smoking cessation." Controversial elsewhere or not, it is key to note that this concept and a few others are the reasons that our members joined up at Freedom and have stayed here.

Most people are here because they like the focus we put on our simplicity to quitting. I think many if not most have been to other sites and realized that idea of anything that works for you is fine just didn't seem to work for them. If you think other sites have an edge, go and read at them for a few days. Read carefully what is often going on. You will often see numerous relapses that are down played as not being big mistakes, and you will also likely see people who are complaining a lot more of physical and emotional problems much longer than the average participant here at Freedom. We are trying to help people get adjusted both mentally and physically the fastest they can to life as an ex-smoker.

We want to caution our newest members to read here and learn as much as you can and not to be so quick to throw in quitting advice that you have picked up elsewhere--either at other sites or in your real world encounters. We want people to come to Freedom to first learn how to quit before they shift their attentions on how to teach people to quit. Although in truth, the real reason people should be here should always be to enforce his or her own personal quit even more than influencing others--each and every members quit and life depends on this goal. Any advice that is telling people that they must somehow shift their way of life in order to start or sustain a quit may not be accurate for most people.

The bottom line of quitting is, the sooner people realize that everything they could do as a smoker they can now do as an ex-smoker--the sooner they realize that there is life without smoking. They will also find out there may be many things that they can now do better without smoking and that life is basically better on many fronts from them having quit smoking. The faster people get back to their life--the sooner they will break triggers and habits and the sooner they will realize that they can do anything as an ex-smoker as long as they always remember to never take another puff!

Joel
Last edited by Joel on 11:53 PM - Jul 10, 2009, edited 1 time in total.
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Joel
Joel

7:08 PM - Sep 22, 2006 #15

I saw where nicotine was referred to as an "evil" chemical.

As it says above:

Lets not give nicotine more credit than it is due. Lets not make it some cute and cuddly or evil and plotting entity--it is a chemical that alters brain chemistry. It is no different than heroin, cocaine or alcohol. These drugs don't have cute names given to them either and giving them to nicotine can start to make it seem different than these other substance--more trivial or less serious in a way. Nicotine is not more trivial than other drugs of addiction and in fact kills more people than all other drugs of addiction combined.
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JoeJFree Gold
JoeJFree Gold

10:31 PM - Dec 08, 2006 #16

Lets be careful of the terms and ideas we use to help explain addiction to nicotine.

Nicotine is a chemical compound. It is inorganic. It has neither soul nor mission, it harbors no agenda, it does not act with intent. It has no IQ.

Nicotine is NOT parasitic.

Parasites are organisms. They are living. They have an agenda or purpose, even if that purpose is as simple as self sustaining use of a host organism to ensure survival.

From Joel's original (with added emphasis):
......the idea that nicotine is somehow calling to a smoker who is off smoking for weeks or months is quite inaccurate. It is the person himself or herself whose own mind is creating the desire from triggers that he or she is experiencing. Those triggers are also not evil, they are just life events being experienced for the first time. I think the problems I have with the terms is they make nicotine seem to have more power than it actually does. The personification given to it can make an individual feel that nicotine has the potential of tricking him or her into smoking. An inanimate object such as a chemical has no such power. As John has said often nicotine has an IQ of zero. People do not overcome the grip of chemical addictions by being stronger than the drug but rather by being smarter than the drug.

Lets not give nicotine more credit than it is due. Lets not make it some cute and cuddly or evil and plotting entity--it is a chemical that alters brain chemistry. It is no different than heroin, cocaine or alcohol. These drugs don't have cute names given to them either and giving them to nicotine can start to make it seem different than these other substance--more trivial or less serious in a way. Nicotine is not more trivial than other drugs of addiction and in fact kills more people than all other drugs of addiction combined.
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flymikee1
flymikee1

9:31 PM - Dec 30, 2006 #17

Way to clarify Joel-Nicodemon is a setup for a relapse excuse I believe!

Hey I see commercials on TV for NRP therapy harping on NICOTENE ADDICTION -- ..... I think they are stealing your material!

Mike-8 Months
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JoeJFree Gold
JoeJFree Gold

9:50 PM - Jan 28, 2007 #18

Who's to Blame?
Nicodemon's Lies?
Detachment
"Do whatever it takes to quit smoking"
The Teaching of Conventional Wisdom at Freedom
Last edited by JoeJFree Gold on 12:04 AM - Jul 11, 2009, edited 1 time in total.
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JoeJFree Gold
JoeJFree Gold

5:41 AM - Feb 20, 2007 #19

This is the exact link taken from the front page of www.whyquit.com
"Nicodemon's" Lies?

Notice is says Nicodemon's LIES. The biggest lie is #33 which states that:
  1. It's all Nicodemon's fault, not mine! - There is no Nicodemon. There never was. The title to this article - "Nicodemon's Lies" - is just another lie. They were never Nicodemon's lies, but your lies. There is no nico-monster and there never has been. Nicotine is simply a chemical, a drug, an alkaloid known as C10H14N2, and its I.Q. is and always has been zero. It does not think, plan, inflict punishment, nor will it conspire to make you relapse or die addicted to it. The fact that it has zero intelligence is your greatest weapon. Everything you see, feel, and sense during nicotine withdrawal and recovery will be grounded in chemical dependency, conditioning, reason, logic or science. Any conspirators in any past attempts to make you relapse and destroy your quit were always and only "you!" Should you reclaim control of your brain reward pathways, your health, and your life, the victory will belong only to you!
Breathe deep, hug hard, live long! John
Link to Original Nicodemon's Lies Thread
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paradigmc0
paradigmc0

1:09 PM - Jun 14, 2007 #20

I really hate the term nicodemon. I post on some other message boards, and people always use that term! Nicodemon. Haha! its a chemical, nothing more nothing less.

pfft!
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Joined: 8:00 AM - Jan 16, 2003

9:19 AM - Dec 29, 2007 #21

I saw in a post that nicotine was referrred to as the "beast". It is important to see our addiction in true terms. Nicotine is a chemical that we are addicted to. To stay free of it we need to choose to not allow it into our bodies. We have the choice!

Excerpt from Joel's post above:
I think the problems I have with the terms is they make nicotine seem to have more power than it actually does. The personification given to it can make an individual feel that nicotine has the potential of tricking him or her into smoking. An inanimate object such as a chemical has no such power. As John has said often nicotine has an IQ of zero. People do not overcome the grip of chemical addictions by being stronger than the drug but rather by being smarter than the drug.
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forza d animo
forza d animo

7:20 AM - Feb 23, 2008 #22

No one's "inner junkie" is plotting to get one to smoke. No one's addiction has the ability to plot because addiction is not an entity. Your inner turmoil, the struggle between what you know is best and what your body is calling for because you conditioned it to need nicotine, is often associated with an "inner junkie" or nicodemon but it is niether, it is you.

The sooner you accept the reality of addiction, that you are an addict and that you will always be addicted, the sooner you will begin to take the healing steps towards recovery. Subscribing to the idea that some entity lives within you that you must fight against and destroy is a fairy tale. The reality is a chemical addiction that you must learn to live with. If we all had to fight, we would all be worn out by now. While we may talk to ourselves in the beginning as though we were dealing with another being or enitity to overcome the urge to reach for our nicotine source, it is by recognizing addiction for what it is that keeps us free in the end, else through blame transference we may find an excuse to relapse - The devil made me do it.

I am free by choice and so are you. Celebrate your freedom and take credit for it. If you choose to smoke again you must take credit for that as well and not blame it on any demons. We are free because we decided against one single puff. One puff is all that we must avoid to live free. In the beginning, NOT doing that one thing may seem like a struggle. As time passes, doing that one thing seems unthinkable.

Never take another puff and be free.

Joseph
3x Gold.
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WavyDavy7
WavyDavy7

12:43 AM - Jun 09, 2008 #23

I see that the "Nicodemon" ascription, in one word, is "SUPERSTITION", pure and simple.
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