New Nicotine Vaccine (NicVAX)

New Nicotine Vaccine (NicVAX)

Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

13 Jun 2002, 19:53 #1

As you read the following article about one of the lastest new magic cures being tested, NicVAX, consider the following points:
  • Will any drug ever make the human mind overcome the sense of emotional loss associated with the end of a long and intense relationship?
  • If NicVAX can successfully block nicotine from releasing dopamine, does that mean that quitters will get to experience full blown physical nicotine withdrawal while continuing to smoke? Will they still be called quitters?
  • What about psychological recovery and all our habit triggers and the psychological craves that come with them? What will NicVAX block or bind to when there's nothing to block or bind?
  • Will NicVAX teach quitters anything about living life without nicotine?
  • Also, keep your eye on what goes into the placebo (any additives)and how that group's success rates compare to historical rates for ignorant, uneducated and unsupported abrupt cessation quitters - 10 to 12% at six months and 5 to 6% at one year.
  • What will be the real cost?
Breathe deep, hug hard, live long,
John - Freedom's Gold Club

Nabi Biopharmaceuticals Begins Human Testing
of Novel Vaccine to Fight Nicotine Addiction
ROCKVILLE, Md., June 12 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Nabi

Biopharmaceuticals (Nasdaq: announced today that they have initiated NicVAX(TM) (Nicotine Conjugate Vaccine) phase I testing in humans. NicVAX is a proprietary and novel investigational vaccine designed to help the body develop antibodies that bind to nicotine and block it from reaching the brain. If shown to be safe and effective in subsequent clinical trials, NicVAX may help millions of people worldwide kick their addiction to cigarettes and tobacco products.

"NicVAX is an entirely new approach to fighting and preventing nicotine addiction," said David J. Gury, Nabi Biopharmaceuticals chairman, president and chief executive officer.

Of the 48 million adult U.S. smokers, about 70 percent, or nearly 34 million people have made at least one attempt to stop, yet only 1.2 million quit permanently, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

"The reason quitting smoking is so difficult is because nicotine is highly addictive," according to Robert Naso, Ph.D., Nabi Biopharmaceuticals senior vice president of quality, regulatory and product development. "When a person smokes, nicotine enters the body and goes straight to the brain, where it generates positive sensations, such as pleasure and relaxation. However, the body does not develop antibodies against nicotine, no matter how much or for how long a person smokes. Based on earlier animal studies, NicVAX is a technology that enables the body to develop antibodies to nicotine. We believe that these antibodies, acting much like a sponge, will soak up the nicotine, preventing it from reaching the brain."

"By reducing the amount of nicotine available to stimulate the brain's pleasure centers, an immunized tobacco user would theoretically receive no positive reinforcement from nicotine use," according to Dr. Naso. In pre- clinical animal studies NicVAX generated antibodies that reduced nicotine levels in the brain by up to 64 percent and blocked the effects of nicotine even at relatively high doses.

The phase I clinical trial will examine NicVAX's safety and ability to stimulate the immune system in nonsmokers. During the trial, investigators will randomly assign 20 healthy, nonsmoker adults to receive either NicVAX or a placebo injection. Safety and antibody levels against nicotine will be measured during the study. Neither the investigator nor the subject will know what was injected until the study ends.

Nabi Biopharmaceuticals has planned additional, phase II clinical trials to investigate NicVAX's safety and ability to stimulate immunity in smokers and ex-smokers. If the investigational vaccine performs well in these trials, the company will pursue definitive, phase III trials to evaluate the vaccine's efficacy to treat nicotine addiction and prevent it in people who have not yet started smoking.

At least 1.1 billion people worldwide, a third of the global adult population, use tobacco products which cause 4 million premature deaths annually, according to the World Health Organization. In the United States, tobacco use is the single leading preventable cause of death, causing more than 430,000 deaths each year and tallying an estimated $50 billion in direct medical and $47 billion in indirect non-medical costs.

Development of NicVAX is funded, in part, by grant DA13327 from the National Institute on Drug Abuse.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stori ... 5566&EDATE=
Reply
Like

Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

13 Jun 2002, 20:27 #2

Hello John:

I have watched for 30 years as new products and new procedures are anxiously awaited to solve the smoking problem. This one has been hyped for a while now, people being so excited by the use of advanced science to cure the world of nicotine addiction. To tell you the truth, I hold out a little more hope for this one than most of the past announcements, although this short article raises a rather troubling point.

When I first heard of its development, I thought it was going to block the ability of ALL nicotine from getting to the brain. This is saying it blocks the ability of 64% of the nicotine from reaching the brain. How is this different that people smoking 36% of their old cigarettes? We all know what kind of life this would be.

Unless they come up with a vaccine that blocks nicotine's ability to get to the brain I would not be putting a whole lot of hope in such a product helping people quit. Blocking it partially may make it harder to addict new people, as if it were given to kids. But I am not sure how many parents would be willing to immunize their children for a problem that they may not think the child will ever have. It is hard enough to get some parents to immunize children for diseases like measles and chicken pox for fears of possible complications. Again, we do not really know that this vaccine will work in real world settings.

My biggest fear with the announcement of such products is the false hope it often brings to smokers. Many hold off quitting thinking the "cure" is just around the corner. It is the same case when a news headline pops out that a cancer cure is just around the corner. Smokers read this and think to themselves they can just continue smoking, for any day now a cure will be announced to smoking or to the diseases caused by smoking--so they continue to consume cigarettes. I have been seeing such messages being delivered for 30 years now. The truth is we have not eradicated smoking or the diseases caused by it. With 400,000 people losing their life to smoking in America annually, and basically millions losing their life on a world-wide scale, tens of millions of people have died who were holding out hope for science to save their lives. How many more tens of millions will die waiting for the next magic cure?

Our Freedom members have taken the most powerful step they could have to reduce their risk of being an unwanted statistic in these figures. They have provided for themselves a solution to a problem that science has not yet been able to deliver on. They have stopped smoking and are on the path for reducing their chances of the onset of premature disease and death by simply committing to never take another puff!

Joel
Reply
Like

Joined: 19 Dec 2008, 00:03

13 Jun 2002, 20:30 #3

Lord Give Me Patience--RIGHT NOW!

Diet pills that let you eat anything you want. Golf clubs that give you a better swing. Shots that make you a non-smoker. Mankind will never quit trying to re-invent the wheel. Everyone wants an easy fix.

What's next, a pill to make me better looking?

If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right, and right is just don't take another puff.

Dave

I have chosen not to smoke for 1 Month 3 Weeks 5 Days 10 Hours 31 Minutes 45 Seconds. Somewhere there are 1975 extra cigarettes.
Reply
Like

Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

13 Jun 2002, 21:11 #4

Look at the date on this article - Oct. 2000. In fact, thnis NIDA article gives more detail than the June 12, 2002 press release

Nicotine Vaccine Moves
Toward Clinical Trials
By Barbara Shine, NIDA NOTES Staff Writer
Volume 15, Number 5 - October, 2000
A new vaccine that prevents nicotine from reaching the brains of rats may offer hope for smokers trying to break their addiction. The compound, called NicVAX, may even prove useful as an inoculation against nicotine addiction, much like those that protect children from tetanus, measles, and polio.
"Some form of vaccination against nicotine would be highly useful because vaccinated individuals would not be able to get a 'kick' from the nicotine in tobacco smoke or chewing tobacco," says NIDA Director Dr. Alan I. Leshner. "If people found tobacco less rewarding, they would be less likely to continue using it. Ultimately, however, our best treatment for nicotine addiction is prevention."
NicVAX is manufactured by Nabi, a Florida-based pharmaceutical company that has NIDA grant support to conduct preclinical studies to determine whether the vaccine is toxic to animals and, then, if the compound is proven safe, clinical trials to evaluate its safety and efficacy in humans. The 4-year project begins this fall, and clinical trials are planned for 2002. Primary coinvestigators include Dr. Ali Fattom and other Nabi scientists in Rockville, Maryland, as well as the Minnesota- and Texas-based researchers who conducted the early animal studies.
Dr. Ali Fattom (left) and Dr. Sham Shirali of Nabi examine a flask of the nicotine preparation used to produce NicVAX. Photo by Jane Barrett, Nabi, Rockville, Maryland.
Dr. Paul Pentel and his colleagues at the Minneapolis Research Foundation and Hennepin County Research Center in Minneapolis and Dr. David Malin at the University of Houston at Clear Lake tested NicVAX with rats. Injection of NicVAX stimulated antibodies to neutralize nicotine in the blood, reducing by 65 percent the amount of nicotine that reached the animals' brains. The nicotine-specific antibodies produced by NicVAX also reduced the effects of nicotine on blood pressure and the heart.
Now NicVAX is proposed as a therapy that can enhance current treatments for nicotine addiction by helping quitting smokers resist the urge to light up. The hypothesis is that the vaccine may inhibit nicotine's "priming effect"-the phenomenon in which a formerly addicted individual experiences an increased desire to use a drug after a single exposure, which contributes to relapse. A treatment program built around NicVAX might also include supportive counseling and a medication such as bupropion (Zyban) to reduce withdrawal symptoms.
The animal studies suggest the vaccine's potential for preventing addiction in new tobacco users as well. When rats were injected simultaneously with a nicotine solution and the vaccine, the antibodies that reduced nicotine levels in the rat brains also reduced nicotine dependence. When the nicotine dosing was stop-ped, the control group, rats injected with nicotine and a placebo solution, showed significantly greater levels of dependence-measured by abstinence signs such as teeth chattering and tremors-than did the rats treated with NicVAX. Rats were exposed to nicotine at levels comparable to 10 packs of cigarettes daily for a week.
Continuing doses of nicotine do not interfere with the vaccine's ability to induce antibodies in the rats. Animals immunized with NicVAX while they were being injected with nicotine still produced nicotine-specific antibodies. Thus it may be possible to vaccinate a smoker while he or she is still using tobacco so that adequate antibodies will be in place at smoking cessation. The vaccine will continue to work during any relapse, inhibiting the pleasurable response that nicotine would otherwise cause. Further, the vaccine never enters the brain and is therefore unlikely to produce neurological side effects.
Sources
Pentel, P.R.; Malin, D.H.; Ennifar, S.; et al. A nicotine conjugate vaccine reduces nicotine distribution to brain and attenuates its behavioral and cardiovascular effects in rats. Pharmacology Biochemistry and Behavior 65(1): 191-198, 1999.[Abstract]
Hieda, Y.; Keyler, D.E.; VanDeVoort, J.T.; et al. Immunization of rats reduces nicotine distribution to brain. Psychopharmacology 143: 150-157. [Full Text]
Reply
Like

Joined: 19 Dec 2008, 00:04

13 Jun 2002, 21:25 #5

I remember reading an article about this or a different drug that blocked dopamine. They tested it on heroin addicted mice. Once the experimental drug was admistered, the docile, drug-addicted mice were angerily banging the bar that fed them heroin. Apparently, they still wanted that heroin, it just did not have an effect on them.

For smokers, this does not sound like a magic cure to me. This drug sounds a lot like quitting cold turkey. Just no drug benefit from relapse. It may help people to quit, but I would not hold my breath until I see the long-term results. I am with Joel, its greatest benefit would seem to be in smoking prevention.

There are two things that scare me about this:
1. What about those healthy non-smokers who are getting the placebo? Are the drug makers hoping that they are full-blown smokers when this is over?
2. If long-term smokers get this vaccine, which I guess is supposed to last a life-time, and they still can't quit, will they walk around in a state of perpetual withdrawal, or won't they more likely smoke enough cigarettes to get back the 64% of the nicotine that the drug blocks?

Like I said, it does not sound like a magic cure to me.

Rosemary--Nicotine free for 4 Months 2 Days 8 Hours 54 Minutes. Cigarettes not smoked: 2447. Money saved: $611.85. Life reclaimed: 2 Wks 2 Days 23 Hrs 54 Mins 1 Sec.
Reply
Like

Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:59

13 Jun 2002, 21:28 #6

Sheeesh, now they want to deprive people of the sheer fun of quitting

This product is not a quitting aid, as Joel points out. It's the equivalent of "cutting back" on smoking and putting people into a state of continuous withdrawal. Also, as John said, it's only going to remove the biological addiction to nicotine, it doesn't touch on the more difficult aspects of mental dependence, and triggers, and all the other crucial pieces of learning that we all know so much about.

So the only value of the product would be to stop kids starting to smoke.

But kids have to learn to live their own lives, and they have to develop self-discipline and common-sense to do that. The last thing we should be doing is drugging them out of doing something they shouldn't do. We need to be educating them not to do it, as a part of their learning and maturation process.

Marty
NOT A PUFF FOR 1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days
Reply
Like

Joined: 19 Dec 2008, 00:00

13 Jun 2002, 23:40 #7

OH SAVE ME :(((
Reply
Like

Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

14 Jun 2002, 01:20 #8

For people anxiously waiting for the vaccine or another easy way to quit, go to our link of the Easy Way To Quit Smoking.
Reply
Like

Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:59

14 Jun 2002, 01:31 #9

Like "light" cigarettes, I think this one will just make people smoke more.....

But its potentially not as bad as the "aids vaccine" being researched. With every disease but aids, if you have the antibodies in your blood you are immune. If you have aids antibodies in your blood, you are dying. Apparently the antibody for aids is needed to get the white blood cell to eat the aids virus, thereby enabling the aids virus to multiply. No antibody, no aids multiplication. So creating aids antibodies via a vaccine makes sense to me........

HOWEVER, as a techie, let me point out that smoking itself was developed by a bunch of dumb morons, none of whom had science degrees!!!!!!

BillW Four months, five days, 4 hours, 31 minutes and 53 seconds. 3755 cigarettes not smoked, saving $741.49. Life saved: 1 week, 6 days, 55 minutes.
Reply
Like

Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

14 Jun 2002, 02:16 #10

Hello Bill:

Actually smoking of tobacco was first practiced by Native Americans for ceremonial purposes and was probably smoked in a manner or quantity that rarely resulted in addiction. It was in fact smoked in pipe form. Actually the word tobacco was what the Native Americans gave to the pipe itself, not the plant. Somewhere around here we have a page on the history of tobacco usage--I think we last brought it up around Columbus day. I will look for it in a bit. I don't want to pass judgment on people's usage in the past though, considering for a long time it was believed by the scientists of the day that tobacco had curative powers for many diseases--from rabies to cancer. Over time these beliefs were found to be false and only after many decades did the full medical implications of tobacco usage really become realized.
Reply
Like

Joined: 07 Jan 2009, 19:26

14 Jun 2002, 02:26 #11

OMG,

This article says they injected these rats with the nicotine of the equivalent of 10 packs a day. Those poor rats...no wonder the chattering teeth and siezures.

To me, if this drug stops the brain from getting 64 percent of its addiction, then it is going to require the person /host to smoke 3 times as much to get the same level of nicotine to the brain. I may be wrong, but thats the way I see it. There is no way I can see this as a valid way of getting people off nicotine. Those poor rats.

DuertyDeedz / william

9 days off nicotine / meter non avail on this computer.
Reply
Like

Joined: 19 Dec 2008, 00:03

14 Jun 2002, 07:08 #12

I think I am going to have to chime in on this one. I have been doing some thinking on the nature of addiction and the role of science / medicine in supporting recovery from addiction. I haven't come to any hard and fast conclusions but here are my thoughts to date:

I occurs to me that addiction is not a medical problem - it is a problem with medical implications. If it were a medical problem, medicine could cure it. I think the most a scientist or physician can hope to accomplish is to encourage and support the healing process. The choice to heal, the battle to overcome, and the victory of freedom belongs to the addict. (From a physicians point of view, what exactly that support and encouragement looks like is what I am still trying to sort out - but that probably isn't important for this conversation.)

The first step to overcoming addiction is separating the addict from their drug of choice. It seems this is the point in the process that science has been focusing on. Maybe because it involves something tangible and measurable. If a vaccine helps the addict accomplish this step, I say great. If not - throw it out.

But quitting is just the first step, maybe not even the most important one. What I mean is you can white knuckle your way through physical withdrawl but if this is all you do, in the long run, you are likely to fail. Why? You haven't fixed your thinking. Your body might be healing, but in your heart and mind you are still a junkie. I believe those on this board who have relapsed in the past (as I have) are intimately aquainted with this simple fact.

We talk a lot here about education - the educated quit. But what are we really saying? I can tell you that I knew a whole lot about anatomy and physiology before I ever got here and I was struggling to quit. We hear stories from oncologist and respiratory therapist and heart surgeons who struggle to quit. We hear about people getting toes and feet and legs amputated who struggle to quit. These folks have a lot of knowledge - either from formal education, observation or personal experience. But obviously the knowledge they have does not equal power in this arena. So what does? I think it is understanding the nature of addiction and how you as an addict are thinking and operating in the world. You can't get that kind of insight from a vaccine, and without it, I think you will always be chasing an external fix in some form or another.

Let's imagine for a minute that they do develop a vaccine that will 100% block nicotine's ability to release dopamine. Will people quit? Absolutely. No dopamine means no payoff, therefore no smoking. Don't believe me. Have you ever bought a pack of herbal cigerettes? How many of those did you actually smoke? Have you ever heard of anyone struggling to give them up? Or how about those fake plastic cigerettes they sold in the supermarket checkout lanes for a while. If smoking were a "habit" those things would have worked. But we were not in the habit of putting a burning weed in our mouths and inhaling, we were addicted to nicotine. And if cigerettes no longer delivered nicotine, we would have no longer use them.

Ok great. They make a vaccine, you no longer get any good gravy out of smoking, people quit and we all go home happy - right? I really don't think so. I'm not saying this is a bad scenerio. It does solve some of society's problems because smoking and its related diseases are expensive. It could keep kids from getting addicted in the first place so a generation or two from now things could be different. However, it doesn't solve MY problem or the problem of those currently addicted - and that's what we're talking about here.

For one thing, I think as addicts we come to believe that we need something outside of ourselves to fix us, handle our problems and make everything ok. Today, everytime I encounter something I don't THINK I can handle I have a decision to make. I can either go back to using my drug of choice or I can work through the problem. Everytime I vote for me instead of nicotine I get a little stronger and a little healthier. Not so much because I didn't use nicotine (though that is a very good thing), but because I didn't look outside myself for the fix.

In this world there is no lack of outside fixes. It is all around us. We are smart folks here. Imagine if you will companies instituting mandatory vaccinations for all their employees. Who could blame them. After all, smoking costs them a lot of money - smokers take more breaks, get sick more often, etc. But what do you think would happen to these employees if all of a sudden nicotine had no affect on their brain? I am pretty confident all the current addicts could find something to take its place - I know I could.

Here is an example I shared earlier - One of the things I used smoking for was to stay awake and stay focused so I could study all night. Guess what - a stimulant will do that for you. A few weeks into my quit the thought crossed my mind that if there was something else that could do what nicotine did for me that would be an ok deal. Man, did that thought scare me - even more so because I know such things exist and where I could find them. In fact, I have a colleague who is in rehab right now for this very reason. You think I am kidding?

Maybe you think I am over-reacting. Or maybe you think I am way off topic here. Think what you want - all I know is I don't want to end up one day with a script pad in my pocket and junkie thinking in my mind. If you would have even implied this was possible a few month ago I would have said you were crazy. But it has happened to people stronger than me and it seems like the world is working overtime right now to prove to me how real and dangerous this possibility is.

I am NOT saying this is the position most smokers find themselves in, I'm not advocating the view of nicotine as some kind of "gateway drug", I am just giving you maybe a more extreme example to make a point. As long as we go looking for external solutions to our problems, junkie thinking will rule and freedom will allude us. A vaccination might cause a smoker to quit smoking, but I think it does about as much to fix the underlying problem as performing liposuction on a bulimic.

If you are lurking around you might think that none of this really applies to you. (Lord knows I'm still trying to get it through my thick skull.) After all you are a smoker - maybe its an addiction, but it is just a little addiction ... a polite, legal one. And if you were going to replace your addiction with another external fix you would choose chocolate or something else equally polite and legal. You are probably right about the chocolate thing, but my question to you is - is that freedom? Sounds like a pretty cheap counterfeit to me. It might not always be easy, but I am beginning to believe that true freedom is possible - accept no substitutes.

JennyG
1m1w1d
Reply
Like

Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:59

14 Jun 2002, 07:32 #13

WOW JennyG Great post.....

..... and you were worried 'bout exams a while back....

If you'd written any way near the style of the above, you'll sail through.....

(well, apart from the "allusion" that is )

-richard
Reply
Like

Joined: 19 Dec 2008, 00:03

14 Jun 2002, 08:38 #14

Darn you Richard, are you proof reading my post? I guess you have to have something to occupy your time now that you are cruising around in that limo! You know, I would consider forwarding them to you for editing if I could be sure you wouldn't throw in a bunch of that crazy lingo you were talking earlier today. Hehehe. Oh man, and I soooo want to be perfect. Curses. Oh well, in another life time I guess. Thanks for the compliment though - sometimes I worry that I get a little too far off into left field. Hope you have enjoyed your special day.

JennyG
Reply
Like

Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

14 Jun 2002, 09:54 #15

Excellent post Jenny, in fact all of them were great! It's a lot to think about and there is some fantastic minds at work out there.

Jenny, in my mind knowledge truly is the foundation for personal change but if we don't know how to apply what we've learned, or we simply choose to ignore it, it wasn't of much benefit. Thank goodness that the law of addiction is pretty darn simple

As for NicVAX, like Joel says and Rosemary points out, if it only blocks 64% of the nicotine from getting through that implies that it may still be possible for nicotine to satisfy an addict's need.

Rosemary, it's terrible to think that they would create chemical dependency in non-smokers in order to prove a study. I hope they'll rethink that part. If not I pray they'll eventually be able to block 100% of nicotine.

And for those mice with chattering teeth, William, I can't imagine what I'd look and feel like after smoking ten packs a day but I'm sure it wouldn't be a pretty sight. Where are those animal rights folks when it comes to smoking!!! Geeeesh!!!
Reply
Like

Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:59

14 Jun 2002, 10:32 #16

STOP PRESS STOP PRESS STOP PRESS


Hey John,

I and a bunch of us here have discovered a way "to block 100% of nicotine" .... ready... repeat after me....

Never......
Take.......
Another....
Pufff........
Reply
Like

Joined: 09 Jan 2009, 20:41

14 Jun 2002, 11:13 #17

Some day someone may develop something that prevents ALL addictions but if I waited I would die, however that does not stop me from wishing them well for all the future generations to come.I do have a quote here though that I would like to share for those who may not have seen it before.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--
that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-Herbert Spencer

Carl
Reply
Like

Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:59

14 Jun 2002, 17:58 #18

Neat quote, Carl

However, it was made by a guy who lived in a different age. He existed in a time and place (late 19th century Britain) when science was generally a force for good. Nowadays we have to be a bit more suspicious of the motivation of our scientists, and the possible misuses of science. Research into a nicotine vaccine may well have an incidental "knowledge for its own sake" value. I would certainly not be "contemptuous" of research provided it is being carried out with proper scientific objectivity and has the purpose of creating something of clearly positive value to humanity.

In this case, as Joel has pointed out, the stated objective of the research is to produce a product which has dubious value to quitters, and which could easily mislead smokers and quitters into believing that an "elixir" has been discovered (rather like NRT). If the scientists would state clearly that the objective of their research is to produce a drug which will vaccinate young children against possible future addiction to nicotine, and is likely to achieve a 64% success rate, and society still wanted them to proceed, then I have little problem with the research. Personally, I as a parent would never agree to have my children so vaccinated, but that would just be my individual choice.

It seems to me that these scientists are in fact solely commercially motivated. Their press release makes claims which are misleading such as ""NicVAX is an entirely new approach to fighting and preventing nicotine addiction," said David J. Gury, Nabi Biopharmaceuticals chairman..." when in fact it will not help in fighting addiction at all.

So should I be "contemptuous" of the research ? Maybe not, but I certainly will maintain a healthy cynicism until I am satisfied that this is not just another pharmaceutical company attempting to exploit a group of people who desperately need real help.

Marty
NOT A PUFF FOR 1 year 6 months 2 weeks
Reply
Like

Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:59

14 Jun 2002, 18:28 #19

Hey guys

I just realized that I've done it again --- I'm getting a bit controversial in my post above. There's a danger that we could start to get sidetracked into a debate about social and moral issues here, and while it's all very interesting that kind of debate should take place elsewhere, not at Freedom.

We have much more important things to do here, like help each other secure our quits, and to teach as many people as we can about smoking and quitting.

I want to leave my post here, because I think it does address an important issue for all of us --- we have to protect our own quits in the way we have learned here, and not hang around in hope of a new magical "cure".

But I don't want to debate my other comments, or Herbert Spencer , on this thread. If anyone is interested, I'd be thrilled to have an email discussion on the wider topic

Please humor me, everyone

Marty
Reply
Like

Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

14 Jun 2002, 19:47 #20

This message has been deleted by the manager or assistant manager.
Reply
Like

Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

14 Jun 2002, 19:54 #21

Hello Carl and Marty. I too see how this string can be leading into a debate over the motives of development of such a product and the literal questioning of science. We really do try to make an effort to minimize such debates, the reasons explained in our mission statement. But when new products are just being released or a new product is on the horizon and is being touted as a panacea for smoking cessation, we feel the need to put such statements in perspective.

Carl, you caught the point I was getting at when saying you would likely die if you smoked waiting for these promises of science curing smoking to come true. But for every person who understands the subtle nuance and limitations of such announcements there are many more people who just do not put this information in proper perspective.

Where I see such announcements of science being dangerous is when scientists or the news media starts giving the impression of a cure for lung cancer is just around the corner. It is true that our science is getting ever more sophisticated and one day a cure may in fact be developed. I would say that if we were looking ahead to future generations the odds are quite good. But the odds of a cure coming out soon enough to save a smoker alive today should not be counted on--we have held out high hopes for this for a long time and are still losing hundreds of thousands of people annually from this specific disease.

Even a child reading such news today should think twice and three times before taking up smoking thinking that this cure may save his or her life if he or she would take up smoking. There is a real good chance his or her smoking parents and maybe even grandparents read or heard the same kind of hopeful news reports prior to taking up smoking too.

But don't get us wrong here when we point out the limitations of this science. I do hope that the research to find such a cure is continued and that may a cure right around the corner. I know quite a few people who are alive today battling this disease and I would be thrilled if there were a cure today introduced to save their lives. But even if that day comes while I am alive I will see it as a bitter sweet victory, for while the cure may save people from that point on, there will be countless others who I will have known who would have died because the cure was just too late--and basically millions more who I didn't know who lost their lives hoping and praying for such a cure.

We want all people here to recognize what they are doing by quitting now is the best chance they currently have to lower their odds of dying of lung cancer--and a host of other diseases. Not by curing it, but by minimizing the risk of developing it.

On the same token I do hope that one day science does come out with a way to prevent smoking, whether it be by preventive measures or treatments for current smokers. But again, I am not holding out high hopes of this happening anytime soon. The promise has been dangled out there numerous times and have basically all fallen flat.

What our members are doing here and now is the best chance they have of beating the nicotine addiction. Again, not by "curing" the addiction, but by taking control of it and rendering it harmless. The only risks posed by being addicted to a substance that you no longer administer is the risk of relapse if YOU once again admininister it. The risk of this happening though is nil if you constantly enforce your vow to never allow nicotine into your body via any route such as chewing, eating, drinking, inhaling, placing on your skin for absorption, injecting and of course the most obvious and likely route, by knowing to never take another puff!

Joel
Reply
Like

Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

14 Jun 2002, 22:32 #22

NicVAX's competitor TA-NIC [/size]

06/14 09:33
Xenova Study Shows Anti-Nicotine Treatment Is Safe (Update2)
[/size]

By Craig Brett
[/size]
Slough, England, June 14 (Bloomberg) -- Xenova Group Plc Chief Executive Officer David Oxlade wants to stop people from feeling good -- for all the right reasons. His company's making treatments that take the pleasure out of nicotine and cocaine.[/size]

One of the medicines, the anti-nicotine treatment TA-NIC, was safe and well tolerated in an early study, the U.K. biotechnology company said today. The vaccine produces antibodies that successfully latch on to nicotine, Oxlade said.[/size]

``The reason nicotine is addictive is that it moves so easily from the blood to the brain, where it causes so much pleasure,'' Oxlade said in an interview. ``Antibodies in the blood mop up the nicotine and prevent it from getting to the brain.''[/size]

Eight in 10 people who quit smoking start again within a year, said Oxlade, who gave up the habit 20 years ago. The health advocacy group Action on Smoking and Health says 120,000 people in the U.K. will die of smoking-related diseases this year, and that about 450 children start smoking every day.[/size]

Xenova's anti-nicotine treatment is injected into the muscle about four or five times over a two-month period, and its effectiveness should last as long as a year, the company said.[/size]

The unprofitable company is also working on a drug to treat cocaine addiction, called TA-CD. A company study showed that rats given access to the illicit drug would increasingly administer it to themselves. TA-CD slowed that process.[/size]

Oxlade said Xenova would seek a partner to help bring the treatment to the market. It will be several years before it's available for sale.[/size]

Xenova had about 17 million pounds ($25 million) in cash at the end of March, after spending about 4 million pounds last year. The anti-nicotine treatment has finished the first of three studies generally required before receiving regulatory approval, and wouldn't reach the market for several years.[/size]

The company's shares rose 75 pence, or 1.5 percent, to 51.75p in mid-morning trading. They've lost a quarter of their value this year.[/size]
Reply
Like

Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

05 Jul 2002, 21:42 #23

First TA-NIC Vaccine Study Results
Produce 96% Nicotine Relapse Rate

I hope that none of you ran out and bought stock in TA-NIC after reading about their wonderful new nicotine vaccine. I understand that The Wall Street Journal reported today, July 5, 2002, that .... "50 smokers in Belgium were injected with an unusual drug code-named TA-NIC. After taking as many as five doses over 10 weeks, two smokers quit. Several others reported a lower desire to smoke, according to Xenova PLC, the drug's British maker."

Unfortunately, that is a higher relapse rate than if they'd been uneducated, unskilled, unsupported and uncounseled cold turkey quitters - 10 to 12% at six months and 5 to 6% at one year
Reply
Like

Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

11 Feb 2004, 22:39 #24

Smoking Has Killed
Six Million Smokers
Since NicVax
Announced Its Cure


We've each been reading magic cure stories for as long as we smoked nicotine. The traveling hypnotist guaranteed I'd quit - "90% success rate" the ad said. Maybe that's why I went back a few years later for a second try. I just couldn't believe that I was the 1 in 10 for whom this cure just didn't take. How are they still getting away with such outlandish performance assertions when all objective medical studies conducted to date have found no advantage for hypnosis?



All the games being played really don't matter. The bottom line is none of the magic cures to date have abated smoking's worldwide kill rate nor have any of them been effective in ending chemical dependency upon nicotine - none.



The below article is typical of hundreds of similar articles that have ran in newspapers around the world since we started this thread back in  June 2002. Hardly a day goes when the major tobacco news services are not reporting the story being shared somewhere. My concern is that stories such as these are junkie rationalization fuel helping carry millions of addicts to early graves.



As shown below there are new entrants and achievements in the vaccine wars but also new problems as they have absolutely no way of proving efficacy for those who've already quit as these researchers understand the "Law of Addiction" (rewritten - never take another puff!).



This thread has produced some rather interesting observations. If science is eventually able to block 100% of nicotine from crossing the blood-brain barrier but is unable to alter the intensity or duration of the physical or psychological recovery experience, how long will it take for nicotine addicts who've taken the vaccine to realize that there are a host of illegal drugs and Rx pain medications available capable of pumping out large quantities of dopamine, whose molecule is not blocked by an effective vaccine? Sound pretty far fetched? I'm not so sure.



Nicotine has long been known as the "gateway"drug. This quote is from my state's drug abuse agency:
"Many of today's youth who smoke cigarettes will become addicted to nicotine. But that's not all. Underage smokers are much more likely than non-smokers to use alcohol and other drugs. For example, underage smokers in South Carolina are:
  • three times more likely to drink alcohol;
  • seven times more likely to smoke marijuana;
  • 15 times more likely to use cocaine; and
  • 41 times more likely to use hallucinogens. "
SC DAODAS - http://www.scprevents.org...e/readroom/clearing.html
Today there is still only one way to allow the brain the time needed to re-sensitize itself to its own neurochemicals by normalizing the number of neurotransmitter receptors and transporters in a host of important circuits, and that's to stop putting nicotine into the brain. Will an effective vaccine someday protect the brain from being forced to accept a highly addictive natural insecticide that nature intended to kill bugs who try eating the tobacco plant? I don't know. What we do know is that this temporary journey of adjustment can be one of the most rewarding adventures of our life and it's ours to keep so long as we decide to Never Take Another Puff!



A vaccine against smoking

By Eran Shifferman
February 11, 2004, Haaretz News
A number of antidotes to nicotine, currently undergoing clinical trials, are designed to stimulate the body's immune system to create antibodies. These bind with nicotine molecules, forming a compound too large to traverse the blood-brain passage. The result is that the pleasurable effect of smoking is neutralized and the addiction to  nicotine prevented. The compound later breaks down into harmless components and is excreted from the body.

Three companies have produced vaccines. The Swiss firm Cytos has developed Nicotine-Qbeta. The Xenova Group in the U.K. is testing TA-NIC, in which the active ingredient is a kind of "tagging" procedure using a nicotine derivative and an endotoxin from the cholera virus. The American firm Nabi Biopharmaceuticals has developed NicVAX with an endotoxin from a different virus.

Binding with a protein stimulates the immune system to produce antibodies to nicotine, which would not have occurred had the nicotine molecules been able to move freely in the bloodstream. All the vaccines are administered by injection.

In preliminary trials, in which rats were injected with NicVAX, a 65 percent reduction in the nicotine entering the brain was observed. The San Diego-based Scripps Research Institute (TSRI) has announced that it is developing a second-generation nicotine vaccine designed to solve a problem that has vexed researchers: the nicotine molecule is flexible enough to produce structural changes, making it difficult for antibodies to bind with it. In the new version, the nicotine derivative has been engineered for stability. TSRI researchers claim that the second-generation vaccine produces a far broader immune reaction than its predecessor.

Reservations have been voiced within the medical community regarding the success of the vaccines. Some researchers wonder about nicotine addicts increasing the number of cigarettes they smoke to the point where the antibodies are unable to cope with the quantity of nicotine taken in.

In any event, the focus of the clinical trials at this stage is on the safety of the vaccine rather than on its efficacy and its ability to prevent addiction.

An additional problem is a question of ethics: the guidelines for the trials forbid giving nicotine to someone who has already been weaned off it.

Some of the biopharmaceutical companies are simultaneously working on a vaccine against cocaine. If their experiments succeed, it will provoke a social-ethical debate about the authority of society and of parents and teachers in controlling undesirable patterns of social behavior in advance. It is unlikely that anyone will object to a vaccine against cocaine, but the debate over nicotine will be interesting to watch.
© Copyright 2004 Haaretz. All rights reserved
Last edited by John (Gold) on 06 Feb 2011, 18:09, edited 1 time in total.
Reply
Like

Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

11 Feb 2004, 23:01 #25

The below is lifted from a post earlier in this string that discusses the same point John is making here:
From: Joel. Sent: 6/14/2002 6:54 AM
Hello Carl and Marty. I too see how this string can be leading into a debate over the motives of development of such a product and the literal questioning of science. We really do try to make an effort to minimize such debates, the reasons explained in our mission statement. But when new products are just being released or a new product is on the horizon and is being touted as a panacea for smoking cessation, we feel the need to put such statements in perspective.



Carl, you caught the point I was getting at when saying you would likely die if you smoked waiting for these promises of science curing smoking to come true. But for every person who understands the subtle nuance and limitations of such announcements there are many more people who just do not put this information in proper perspective.



Where I see such announcements of science being dangerous is when scientists or the news media starts giving the impression of a cure for lung cancer is just around the corner. It is true that our science is getting ever more sophisticated and one day a cure may in fact be developed. I would say that if we were looking ahead to future generations the odds are quite good. But the odds of a cure coming out soon enough to save a smoker alive today should not be counted on--we have held out high hopes for this for a long time and are still losing hundreds of thousands of people annually from this specific disease.




Even a child reading such news today should think twice and three times before taking up smoking thinking that this cure may save his or her life if he or she would take up smoking. There is a real good chance his or her smoking parents and maybe even grandparents read or heard the same kind of hopeful news reports prior to taking up smoking too.



But don't get us wrong here when we point out the limitations of this science. I do hope that the research to find such a cure is continued and that may a cure right around the corner. I know quite a few people who are alive today battling this disease and I would be thrilled if there were a cure today introduced to save their lives. But even if that day comes while I am alive I will see it as a bitter sweet victory, for while the cure may save people from that point on, there will be countless others who I will have known who would have died because the cure was just too late--and basically millions more who I didn't know who lost their lives hoping and praying for such a cure.




We want all people here to recognize what they are doing by quitting now is the best chance they currently have to lower their odds of dying of lung cancer--and a host of other diseases. Not by curing it, but by minimizing the risk of developing it.


On the same token I do hope that one day science does come out with a way to prevent smoking, whether it be by preventive measures or treatments for current smokers. But again, I am not holding out high hopes of this happening anytime soon. The promise has been dangled out there numerous times and have basically all fallen flat.



What our members are doing here and now is the best chance they have of beating the nicotine addiction. Again, not by "curing" the addiction, but by taking control of it and rendering it harmless. The only risks posed by being addicted to a substance that you no longer administer is the risk of relapse if YOU once again admininister it. The risk of this happening though is nil if you constantly enforce your vow to never allow nicotine into your body via any route such as chewing, eating, drinking, inhaling, placing on your skin for absorption, injecting and of course the most obvious and likely route, by knowing to never take another puff!




Joel
Last edited by Joel on 06 Feb 2011, 18:12, edited 1 time in total.
Reply
Like