Good news, our members don't relapse anymore...

GrumpyOMrsS (Gold)
Joined: 19 Dec 2008, 00:00

27 Nov 2004, 12:15 #81

We pulled the membership tonight from a person who joined last January whose post today showed that he or she had been off smoking for 22 days. This person either did not understand our joining policies or did not understand our relapse policy.

Posting and remaining a member is futile if the understanding of addiction is not absorbed, acknowledged and vigilantly reinforced. That reinforcement can be sustained by reading even more than by writing. If a person loses a quit it is a sure sign that they did not keep their understanding or personal resolve reinforced.

Freedom's relapse policy is simple. Any member who relapses shall permanently lose posting privileges.

Joel
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

20 Jan 2005, 05:23 #82

The primary benefactor of this policy is each and every member himself or herself. We have made it very easy for each and every member to have a clearly defined spelled out battle line. No longer does a person have the luxury of thinking, "Well if I relapse, I'll go to Freedom and quit again." We have in effect destroyed what to some people can be a very persuasive argument supporting a kind of junkie thinking. Again, for the majority of people here this policy poses no threat and makes the each and every members mission here that much more clearly defined. It was what their intent was the day they first signed up to Freedom. To stay a member of Freedom, and more important, to keep the health and life saving benefits of staying a successful ex-smoker is as simple now as just remembering to stay totally committed to never take another puff! Joel

Joel
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

09 Feb 2005, 21:20 #83

We must apologize for an incident that happened this morning. Around 1:00 a.m. there was a post put up by a member who had joined back in June, relapsed in November and who had just quit again a few weeks ago. The reason I felt the need to apologize was the post remained on the board for almost five hours before a manager got by to see it and remove it. Even a newer member wrote she was confused by the post since she was under the impression that we had a relapse policy that immediately removes a person's membership when they relapse.

I feel there are four things that need to be explained regarding this incident. First, why was the post up for five hours. A number of our managers are in fact light sleepers. Often we wake up do a quick check of the board, make sure things are in order and go back to sleep. There are days though where all four of us actually sleep through the night and a post like this may not be seen. That is what happened here which is why the post stayed up as long as it did.

The second explanation needed is why the person was a member after he or she relapsed back in November. The reason for this is that we had no way to know that the member had relapsed for you see, the particular member never posted at our board once since joining. Do we have people who are on our member lists who may be smoking? I am sure we do, but we cannot act on these people until we know about it.

The third thing I want to explain is how senseless it was for the particular person to have joined back in January. There was absolutely no reason for the person to have joined back then, considering that after he or she joined, he or she never posted once. There is only one reason for a person to join up at Freedom--because he or she wants to post on the board. Non-members have full access to everything we have to offer at Freedom except the ability to post. As was quite evident in this incident, the person never posted. If he or she simply stuck around our board to read from June to November, relapsed, quit again this January, realized that maybe becoming a posting member could help his or her quit, he or she could have simply joined up for the first time. Instead by handling it the way he or she did, the person lost all ability to ever be a posting member again. This was a wasted opportunity for this person.

The last thing I want to point out from this incident is that the person very likely did any reading during the time he or she was a member. I am assuming this because of how the person titled his or her one and only post. It was titled, Nicodemon and I. It also had the term "nicodemon" in the body of the letter. Considering the fact that every single time the term "Nicodemon" has been written on the board since last June, 26 times in all, the post Once and for all, there is no Nicodemon has been kicked up. The fact that the person still had the belief of the legitimacy of that term, as well as no understanding of our relapse policy make it pretty clear that he or she did very little reading while at Freedom.

Recently we implemented a new last step in our application process. We are sending out our rules and regulations, relapse policy, our definition of cold turkey quitting and requiring that all applicants submit a response to us that they fully understand all of these terms and will abide to all of the rules. The reason we make it so difficult to get in is that we want to make sure we are getting the right people in at Freedom, or maybe more accurately, that we are getting people in at the right time in their quits and in their lives. The person involved in this incident obviously joined at the wrong time and it cost the person any chance of ever getting in again.

Back in June the person submitted an application saying he or she read the relapse policy, the courtesy and rules, and quit cold turkey. He or she got in the right words yet apparently read nothing of the rules. Again, this lack of understanding was his or her loss. We are trying to minimize the chances of this happening again.

If you are a new reader seeing Freedom for the first time, read and learn all you can here before you join. Even if you are off for days or weeks now, familiarize yourself with out materials. Make sure we are the right group for you and make sure that you are ready to commit to make this quit last forever. Whether you ever join up or not is not important, but learning all that you can to secure your reasons for having quit is crucial to your quit and may be crucial to your health and your life.

If you are already a member and didn't understand our Rules and Courtesies before, or our relapse policies, please go back and read them now. They are important at helping you to keep your membership as well as your quit.

The more you read and learn here at Freedom and at www.whyquit.com, the stronger your resolve will always stay to stick to the commitment that you made when you joined or should have made to yourself even if you never joined to never take another puff!

Joel

richard This is It GOLD
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:59

10 Feb 2005, 02:46 #84

Image
To new or prospective members this poilcy may sound a bit harsh..... but go take a look at other forums. There are plenty dotted around the internet full of serial-relapsers or people proudly announcing "I've set my quit date for xxx" - only to never be heard from again. We've all been there at one time or another in our previous quit attempts, haven't we.

Freedom is different...... quitting is a DEADLY serious business. We do have the odd bit of fun here.... but those who stay here, know the true value of this no-nonsense site..... (and many of us enjoy more than a couple of hours sleep)

Thanks (once again!) Joel, John and team...

SPUDTFN
Joined: 19 Dec 2008, 00:48

01 Mar 2005, 13:16 #85

I wanted to say that this policy was a big reason why I joined. It stressed how serious Freedom is about quitting and I was serious about it to. And thinking over the past 2 months, not sure but maybe this policy has kept my quit strong when I may have been tempted.
I am always me and great to be here as long as I remember to Never Take Another Puff.

Steve

GrumpyOMrsS (Gold)
Joined: 19 Dec 2008, 00:00

27 Sep 2005, 04:19 #86

Fortunately it doesn't happen often here but I just had to pull the membership of a person who joined a year and a half ago and whose post today showed that he had been off smoking for just 15 days. It is obvious that the person relapsed and did not understand our relapse policy. Whenever we end up pulling a membership because of a relapse we bring up this string and attach a note explaining that we just pulled a membership for that reason. We do this so that people can see of infrequently this actually occurs. We actually pull this string up a lot more for preventative measures than we do because of relapsed members posting at the board. We usually make it clear at those times too that we are bringing up the post in those times to help insure that people understand our relapse policy. Freedom's relapse policy is simple. Any member who relapses shall permanently lose posting privileges.

Joel
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

20 Mar 2006, 20:06 #87

From above:

We must apologize for an incident that happened this morning. Around 1:00 a.m. there was a post put up by a member who had joined back in June, relapsed in November and who had just quit again a few weeks ago. The reason I felt the need to apologize was the post remained on the board for almost five hours before a manager got by to see it and remove it. Even a newer member wrote she was confused by the post since she was under the impression that we had a relapse policy that immediately removes a person's membership when they relapse.

I feel there are four things that need to be explained regarding this incident. First, why was the post up for five hours. A number of our managers are in fact light sleepers. Often we wake up do a quick check of the board, make sure things are in order and go back to sleep. There are days though where all four of us actually sleep through the night and a post like this may not be seen. That is what happened here which is why the post stayed up as long as it did.

The second explanation needed is why the person was a member after he or she relapsed back in November. The reason for this is that we had no way to know that the member had relapsed for you see, the particular member never posted at our board once since joining. Do we have people who are on our member lists who may be smoking? I am sure we do, but we cannot act on these people until we know about it.

The third thing I want to explain is how senseless it was for the particular person to have joined back in January. There was absolutely no reason for the person to have joined back then, considering that after he or she joined, he or she never posted once. There is only one reason for a person to join up at Freedom--because he or she wants to post on the board. Non-members have full access to everything we have to offer at Freedom except the ability to post. As was quite evident in this incident, the person never posted. If he or she simply stuck around our board to read from June to November, relapsed, quit again this January, realized that maybe becoming a posting member could help his or her quit, he or she could have simply joined up for the first time. Instead by handling it the way he or she did, the person lost all ability to ever be a posting member again. This was a wasted opportunity for this person.

The last thing I want to point out from this incident is that the person very likely did any reading during the time he or she was a member. I am assuming this because of how the person titled his or her one and only post. It was titled, Nicodemon and I. It also had the term "nicodemon" in the body of the letter. Considering the fact that every single time the term "Nicodemon" has been written on the board since last June, 26 times in all, the post Once and for all, there is no Nicodemon has been kicked up. The fact that the person still had the belief of the legitimacy of that term, as well as no understanding of our relapse policy make it pretty clear that he or she did very little reading while at Freedom.

Recently we implemented a new last step in our application process. We are sending out our rules and regulations, relapse policy, our definition of cold turkey quitting and requiring that all applicants submit a response to us that they fully understand all of these terms and will abide to all of the rules. The reason we make it so difficult to get in is that we want to make sure we are getting the right people in at Freedom, or maybe more accurately, that we are getting people in at the right time in their quits and in their lives. The person involved in this incident obviously joined at the wrong time and it cost the person any chance of ever getting in again.

Back in June the person submitted an application saying he or she read the relapse policy, the courtesy and rules, and quit cold turkey. He or she got in the right words yet apparently read nothing of the rules. Again, this lack of understanding was his or her loss. We are trying to minimize the chances of this happening again.

If you are a new reader seeing Freedom for the first time, read and learn all you can here before you join. Even if you are off for days or weeks now, familiarize yourself with out materials. Make sure we are the right group for you and make sure that you are ready to commit to make this quit last forever. Whether you ever join up or not is not important, but learning all that you can to secure your reasons for having quit is crucial to your quit and may be crucial to your health and your life.

If you are already a member and didn't understand our Rules and Courtesies before, or our relapse policies, please go back and read them now. They are important at helping you to keep your membership as well as your quit.

The more you read and learn here at Freedom and at www.whyquit.com, the stronger your resolve will always stay to stick to the commitment that you made when you joined or should have made to yourself even if you never joined to never take another puff!

Joel

Joel
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

01 Jun 2006, 17:22 #88

The primary benefactor of this policy is each and every member himself or herself. We have made it very easy for each and every member to have a clearly defined spelled out battle line. No longer does a person have the luxury of thinking, "Well if I relapse, I'll go to Freedom and quit again." We have in effect destroyed what to some people can be a very persuasive argument supporting a kind of junkie thinking.

Again, for the majority of people here this policy poses no threat and makes the each and every members mission here that much more clearly defined. It was what their intent was the day they first signed up to Freedom. To stay a member of Freedom, and more important, to keep the health and life saving benefits of staying a successful ex-smoker is as simple now as just remembering to stay totally committed to never take another puff!

Joel

(No one relapsed that I know of. I just saw where one member was being influenced by other "cheating smokers" he knows. I purposely didn't use the term "ex-smokers" he knows, for these are people who are struggling over the long-term because they are basically relapsing over and over again.)

Joel
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

01 Jun 2006, 20:45 #89

Again, I am kicking this one up for preventative measures:

The primary benefactor of this policy is each and every member himself or herself. We have made it very easy for each and every member to have a clearly defined spelled out battle line. No longer does a person have the luxury of thinking, "Well if I relapse, I'll go to Freedom and quit again." We have in effect destroyed what to some people can be a very persuasive argument supporting a kind of junkie thinking.

Again, for the majority of people here this policy poses no threat and makes the each and every members mission here that much more clearly defined. It was what their intent was the day they first signed up to Freedom. To stay a member of Freedom, and more important, to keep the health and life saving benefits of staying a successful ex-smoker is as simple now as just remembering to stay totally committed to never take another puff!

Joel

Joel
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:57

19 Jun 2006, 11:05 #90

The following text lifted from the old thread discusses the advantages of our no relapse policy, both for a group as a whole as well as each individual member. Saying that if you relapse that we want you to come back again is taking away a major incentive not to relapse. Everyone reading such a message will think that we don't take relapsing too seriously so why should they? Read the text below, I think you will get the idea of how the relapse policy protects everybody.

Joel

I saw where a member wrote tonight that because of a tragic situation she was thinking she should just smoke and quit again once she got through the bad time period. We have designed Freedom to take care of such logic. You cannot relapse with the intention that you will just come back and quit again. Relapsing is a commitment to smoke and forever forgo participating at Freedom again. Harsh you may say. Well yes it is, but it is because you have to be harsh with yourself if you are going to keep on top of this addiction. Give cigarettes and inch and they will take your life. If you want to stay smoke free always remember why you first committed and are still committed to never take another puff!

Joel