Mr, Chazman do you LIKE this kind of donut?

Mr, Chazman do you LIKE this kind of donut?

Joined: October 29th, 2006, 3:58 pm

August 5th, 2007, 5:13 pm #1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT3V7_hN_9w

Hav you ever eaten a donut while doing a donut?
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Joined: September 5th, 2004, 1:22 pm

August 6th, 2007, 2:05 am #2

Good job Justin...
Regards,
Bob
Lexington, Ky.
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Joined: March 1st, 2007, 9:52 pm

August 6th, 2007, 2:57 pm #3

Counter-steering happens even at low speeds.

If he turned left...to go left...he would immediately crash to the ground.

People that don't believe in counter steering don't realize there is something called 'Steering Trail' designed into the front fork. I have built bikes with no steering trail and they are not ridable and very unstable.The rider is 'pushing' against that geometry resistance to maintain his balance. He needs to turn the handlebars clockwise in order to rotate counterclockwise.

Hey Bob, maybe this video would help Peter, Chazman, and Ham understand that counter steering is 'real' as they still seem somewhat confused and reluctant to understand.
Why don't you post it for Peter and ham to see? Their reply would be entertaining.

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Joined: March 1st, 2007, 9:52 pm

August 6th, 2007, 3:01 pm #4

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Joined: April 10th, 2007, 11:58 pm

August 6th, 2007, 3:37 pm #5

The youtube clip of the biker making circles shows why the counter steering is necessary - something I didn't see before. If the front wheel were in the direction of the turn in this little thingee the biker is doing, the front wheel would not have the friction required to prevent it BACKING OUT. The counter-steering puts the wheel at right angles to the torque of the whole bike--specifically as he is making a counterclockwise circle, were he to turn the wheel to the left, the tire would simply roll backwards and collapse the bike onto the ground to the biker's left side. But with the center of mass as high as it is, and with the lean at such an angle, steering the wheel to the right offers a perfect "skid" barrier much like that of a skier who tilts his skis up against the snow in order to make a turn. HE POSTS HIS BUTT AGAINST THE SNOW IN ORDER TO PUSH AWAY from it.



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Joined: July 31st, 2006, 5:44 pm

August 6th, 2007, 4:08 pm #6

this is a dead horse topic, we all know Chaz doesn't think countersteering is necessary to ride a motorcycle around the streets of Chi-town, pointing out that it exists is only futile and in Chaz's great words "mental masturbation" as he agreed to its existence just not its usefulness in city driving.

On a side note, played golf with Boris this past weekend, great drives, good irons but horrible short game, the austin swing is working pretty good but need a lot more practice for feel and touch on the short game side.
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Joined: April 10th, 2007, 11:58 pm

August 6th, 2007, 6:58 pm #7

Are you trying to chip ala Shauger? Or the right/easy/workable way...?

Shauger's diversion of chipping is simply not the best of worlds even if Mike Austin himself endorsed it on his deathbed.

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Joined: July 31st, 2006, 5:44 pm

August 6th, 2007, 8:02 pm #8

Hey George, trying to chip Shauger's way, which is hard as heck to develop a "feel" for what do you recommend?
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Joined: April 10th, 2007, 11:58 pm

August 6th, 2007, 8:19 pm #9

Use hands ahead and then set them firm so that there is no release in the forward stroke. I like to place my left thumb around to the right side of the shaft for chipping, and then in the forward stroke I 'wipe the grass' with my thumb. This prevents a release so that I catch the ball cleanly.

And the size of the stroke determines the distance and force into the ball. Chip to the spot from which it will bounce and roll to the pin.

And you find the distance OF your chips by calibrating how far they travel impact to impact for various backswing lengths: if the ball is under you at 6 oclock, use 7:30, 9, 10, 11 - for the "minute hand" shaft. For short chips treat like putting. But always set your hands/the grip cap forward of the ball itself and keep it there. No release type followthrough is necessary.

Finally, when practicing, learn to be ABSOLUTELY PRECISE WITH CENTEROFCLUBFACE contact: if you get THAT one thing right, you'll discover how well you really CAN chip!

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Gerry
Gerry

August 7th, 2007, 4:47 am #10

I discovered this a couple years ago and it works great.
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Joined: July 31st, 2006, 5:44 pm

August 7th, 2007, 9:20 am #11

Use hands ahead and then set them firm so that there is no release in the forward stroke. I like to place my left thumb around to the right side of the shaft for chipping, and then in the forward stroke I 'wipe the grass' with my thumb. This prevents a release so that I catch the ball cleanly.

And the size of the stroke determines the distance and force into the ball. Chip to the spot from which it will bounce and roll to the pin.

And you find the distance OF your chips by calibrating how far they travel impact to impact for various backswing lengths: if the ball is under you at 6 oclock, use 7:30, 9, 10, 11 - for the "minute hand" shaft. For short chips treat like putting. But always set your hands/the grip cap forward of the ball itself and keep it there. No release type followthrough is necessary.

Finally, when practicing, learn to be ABSOLUTELY PRECISE WITH CENTEROFCLUBFACE contact: if you get THAT one thing right, you'll discover how well you really CAN chip!
Thanks George I'll give that a try on the range this weekend!
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Joined: March 17th, 2007, 8:45 pm

August 7th, 2007, 9:07 pm #12

this is a dead horse topic, we all know Chaz doesn't think countersteering is necessary to ride a motorcycle around the streets of Chi-town, pointing out that it exists is only futile and in Chaz's great words "mental masturbation" as he agreed to its existence just not its usefulness in city driving.

On a side note, played golf with Boris this past weekend, great drives, good irons but horrible short game, the austin swing is working pretty good but need a lot more practice for feel and touch on the short game side.
to avoid collisions, to state that the normal turning a motorcycle requires counterstearing is ludicrus.

Normal turn



Countersteared high speed turn.


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Joined: March 1st, 2007, 9:52 pm

August 8th, 2007, 3:24 pm #13

That picture really doesn't show anything as the rider is ALREADY into the turn. Countersteering is required to INITIATE the turn.

But lets use your picture to go one step further.

If that rider in the first picture is to exit that turn and straighten out his path he will need to countersteer. This means to exit the turn it will require momentarily steering further in the direction of the turn. This will tilt the bike back upright.

It is a very small movement and to the untrained eye can seem extremely counter-intuitive.

Most people, like you,don't realize they countersteer as it is an unconscious behavior. But it is absolutely necessary to initiate a turn and maintain balance at all speeds.

Just because YOU have trouble understanding this concept does not make it ludicrous.

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Joined: March 17th, 2007, 8:45 pm

August 8th, 2007, 4:54 pm #14

The majority of bikers steer their scooters with weight shifting.
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Joined: March 17th, 2007, 8:45 pm

August 8th, 2007, 4:56 pm #15

That picture really doesn't show anything as the rider is ALREADY into the turn. Countersteering is required to INITIATE the turn.

But lets use your picture to go one step further.

If that rider in the first picture is to exit that turn and straighten out his path he will need to countersteer. This means to exit the turn it will require momentarily steering further in the direction of the turn. This will tilt the bike back upright.

It is a very small movement and to the untrained eye can seem extremely counter-intuitive.

Most people, like you,don't realize they countersteer as it is an unconscious behavior. But it is absolutely necessary to initiate a turn and maintain balance at all speeds.

Just because YOU have trouble understanding this concept does not make it ludicrous.
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