Mindy's Big Ideas

Mindy's Big Ideas

Joined: September 6th, 2004, 3:46 am

January 5th, 2011, 1:52 am #1

I'd like to hear from all of you who've given Blake's ideas a lot of thought, compared them with other golf instruction you've studied, and tried Blake's method for yourselves. Was Mindy right or wrong and what is your rationale for your conclusions? What are the flaws in his notion of a "reflex" swing?

1. Human anatomy and kinesiology allow the legs (exclusively) to provide all necessary energy/power for the golf swing.

2. A "connected" position of the right elbow, at address and throughout the swing, is key to "transmitting" leg energy/power to the hands and club.

Question for discussion: Could it be that 1 and 2 are, as Blake claimed, simply a special application of principles and techniques developed in field athletics, ie, events such as the javelin and discus throws? Blake at least implied that the legs "dragged" the club all the way to impact. But isn't the golfer's effort, whether exerted by legs and/or upper body, essentially complete by the moment of wrist release, ie, when angle between lead arm and shaft collapses at about 6/100 seconds before impact?

3. There should be little or no weight shift to trail side in the backswing; instead, the golfer's hips should shift targetward during the takeaway and backswing thus keeping the golfer's weight approximately balanced between the feet throughout the swing.

Question for discussion: Is 3 essential to the proper operation of 1 and 2? If so, why?

Jim


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Joined: November 11th, 2005, 11:32 pm

January 13th, 2011, 2:05 pm #3

I'd like to hear from all of you who've given Blake's ideas a lot of thought, compared them with other golf instruction you've studied, and tried Blake's method for yourselves. Was Mindy right or wrong and what is your rationale for your conclusions? What are the flaws in his notion of a "reflex" swing?

1. Human anatomy and kinesiology allow the legs (exclusively) to provide all necessary energy/power for the golf swing.

2. A "connected" position of the right elbow, at address and throughout the swing, is key to "transmitting" leg energy/power to the hands and club.

Question for discussion: Could it be that 1 and 2 are, as Blake claimed, simply a special application of principles and techniques developed in field athletics, ie, events such as the javelin and discus throws? Blake at least implied that the legs "dragged" the club all the way to impact. But isn't the golfer's effort, whether exerted by legs and/or upper body, essentially complete by the moment of wrist release, ie, when angle between lead arm and shaft collapses at about 6/100 seconds before impact?

3. There should be little or no weight shift to trail side in the backswing; instead, the golfer's hips should shift targetward during the takeaway and backswing thus keeping the golfer's weight approximately balanced between the feet throughout the swing.

Question for discussion: Is 3 essential to the proper operation of 1 and 2? If so, why?

Jim

Jim - I know I've beaten this dead horse before, but since you asked I'll flog the nag again. Mindy emphasized that the key to a fine golf swing is the proper application of "Pressure" to the ball by the clubhead. By "Pressure" Mindy was referring to the traditional mechanical definition of "Force Through Distance". Mindy dismissed clubhead speed as the most critical element in propelling a golf ball. His Reflex Swing was designed to apply the most mass (body weight connected to the club) through the impact zone. Mindy was mistaken about the nature of impact between the ball and the club. Pressure does not exist at impact. So, Mindy's theory is very wrong from its inception.

CD has pointed to the latest version of Natural Golf, which is clearly wrong as well.

Tom
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Joined: September 6th, 2004, 3:46 am

January 17th, 2011, 11:38 pm #4

Tom,
I expect you noticed that I didn't mention Blake's "pressure" notion among the three "big" ideas I listed. That's because I view it just as you do, ie, a dead horse requiring no further flogging.

Even idea #2, ie, relating to "connecting the lower and upper body," if such be possible, would not involve "pressure," ie, once the club is released in the downswing, the golfer's effort is complete and "pressure" cannot be operative beyond that point. However, even the great ball striker Ben Hogan thought the first part of the downswing to be powered by the hips and thighs. From his "Five Lessons":

"THE HIPS INITIATE THE DOWNSWING. They are the pivotal element in the chain action. Starting them first and moving them correctly--this one action practically makes the downswing. It creates early speed....This turning of the hips is activated by several sets of muscles which work together. THE CONTRACTED MUSCLES OF THE LEFT HIP AND THE MUSCLES ALONG THE INSIDE OF THE LEFT THIGH START TO SPIN THE LEFT HIP AROUND TO THE LEFT. AT ONE AND THE SAME TIME, THE MUSCLES OF THE RIGHT HIP AND THE MUSCLES OF THE RIGHT THIGH--BOTH THE INSIDE AND THE POWERFUL OUTSIDE THIGH MUSCLES--START TO MOVE THE RIGHT HIP FORWARD...What do the hands do? The answer is they do nothing active until after the arms have moved down on the the downswing to a position just above the level of the hips." [Upper case emphasis by Hogan in the "Five Lessons" original].

I suppose one could view this as Hogan's (mis?)interpretation of the "big muscle" golf swing theory, a theory which many swing analysts do NOT (yet) consider to be a dead horse. Jim

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Joined: January 23rd, 2005, 12:18 pm

January 19th, 2011, 6:28 pm #5

Hi Jim,

From my readings of Mindy's two books, my impression is that he doesn't want any "release". Rather, he wants the connection between club and body to remain in place right through impact so that maximum pressure can be applied to the ball. In this way, according to his theory, you can get greater distance with slower clubhead speed. In essence, his Reflex Swing is designed not to create maximum clubhead speed at impact, he argues this very point in the magazine article you posted in the arhives. I think diminished clubhead speed is exactly what happens if your right arm stays connected to your torso in the manner that Mindy describes. As you know, I don't think Mindy actually swung that way himself, as evidenced by his demonstration on the Mike Douglas Show.

Tom
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Joined: September 22nd, 2005, 12:13 am

January 19th, 2011, 9:08 pm #6

I'd like to hear from all of you who've given Blake's ideas a lot of thought, compared them with other golf instruction you've studied, and tried Blake's method for yourselves. Was Mindy right or wrong and what is your rationale for your conclusions? What are the flaws in his notion of a "reflex" swing?

1. Human anatomy and kinesiology allow the legs (exclusively) to provide all necessary energy/power for the golf swing.

2. A "connected" position of the right elbow, at address and throughout the swing, is key to "transmitting" leg energy/power to the hands and club.

Question for discussion: Could it be that 1 and 2 are, as Blake claimed, simply a special application of principles and techniques developed in field athletics, ie, events such as the javelin and discus throws? Blake at least implied that the legs "dragged" the club all the way to impact. But isn't the golfer's effort, whether exerted by legs and/or upper body, essentially complete by the moment of wrist release, ie, when angle between lead arm and shaft collapses at about 6/100 seconds before impact?

3. There should be little or no weight shift to trail side in the backswing; instead, the golfer's hips should shift targetward during the takeaway and backswing thus keeping the golfer's weight approximately balanced between the feet throughout the swing.

Question for discussion: Is 3 essential to the proper operation of 1 and 2? If so, why?

Jim

The weight shift in Mindy's swing is interesting. In all swings weight must shift because you take the weight of the arms and club (at least) and move them from one side of the body to the other. I think Mindy was headed towards counter balancing this by pushing the lower body forward as the arms go back. Certainly I think this can add stability to the swing and thus aid ball striking. We need to remember too that Mindy was working at a time when all he could do was describe what he was feeling in his own swing. Certainly I can make swings that do feel minimal in weight shift.
Without wanting to raise the pressure question my own view is that Mindy was trying to describe the feel of compressing the golf ball and the notion that a square impact will give greater compression (at any speed) than a glancing blow.
Cheers
Mac
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Joined: September 22nd, 2005, 12:13 am

January 19th, 2011, 9:18 pm #7

Hi Jim,

From my readings of Mindy's two books, my impression is that he doesn't want any "release". Rather, he wants the connection between club and body to remain in place right through impact so that maximum pressure can be applied to the ball. In this way, according to his theory, you can get greater distance with slower clubhead speed. In essence, his Reflex Swing is designed not to create maximum clubhead speed at impact, he argues this very point in the magazine article you posted in the arhives. I think diminished clubhead speed is exactly what happens if your right arm stays connected to your torso in the manner that Mindy describes. As you know, I don't think Mindy actually swung that way himself, as evidenced by his demonstration on the Mike Douglas Show.

Tom
Tom
I think that what Mindy was trying to get at is that from an engineering perspective you don't want to "leak" energy by "disconnecting" the body too early in the downswing. The release is then "automatic" in that the angles are released by the motion and not consciously by the player. I think this is, as you say, what Mindy actually does. On the clubhead speed issue I remember once as a much younger person having a computer fitting where the pro measured my driver speed at 117 m.p.h. but advised me to try to slow it to 100m.p.h. to improve the impact and get more average distance rather than the odd long drive. Maybe this is what Mindy was feeling in his game? A slower swing with better impact conditions yielding longer shots.
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Joined: August 2nd, 2004, 11:57 pm

January 20th, 2011, 6:28 pm #8

Your thoughts jive with mine. When I hit a well struck shot
I have a feeling of sustained pressure through the impact.
It is just a physical sensation that lingers briefly in the body even
though the ball is gone. The clubhead could care less since
it is not capable of feeling anything.
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Joined: September 6th, 2004, 3:46 am

January 21st, 2011, 1:13 am #9

The weight shift in Mindy's swing is interesting. In all swings weight must shift because you take the weight of the arms and club (at least) and move them from one side of the body to the other. I think Mindy was headed towards counter balancing this by pushing the lower body forward as the arms go back. Certainly I think this can add stability to the swing and thus aid ball striking. We need to remember too that Mindy was working at a time when all he could do was describe what he was feeling in his own swing. Certainly I can make swings that do feel minimal in weight shift.
Without wanting to raise the pressure question my own view is that Mindy was trying to describe the feel of compressing the golf ball and the notion that a square impact will give greater compression (at any speed) than a glancing blow.
Cheers
Mac
Blake was indeed trying to describe the feel a golfer achieves when he compresses the golf ball, but he wandered into some speculative rationale regarding the nature and duration of ball compression. It's certainly true that he was doing his thinking and research when tools such as extremely-high-speed film were not available. He concluded that longer duration compression was possible with his "high pressure" (though lower speed) swing in which the legs ("connected" in a precise way to the upper body) provide all the swing power. I think physics has shown that variation of impact duration is not a factor in an elite swing, rather, clubhead/ball impact is a "pure" collision occurring after release. We get superior compression feel when we make a good swing with square and solid impact and it doesn't have to be a high-speed swing. My best shots, with greatest compression feel, are often lower-swing-speed pitches when I have made solid and square contact with the ball. As Mindy put it, the feel is as if the ball has been scooped up and "catapulted" into the air. Jim
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Joined: August 2nd, 2004, 11:57 pm

January 26th, 2011, 1:09 am #10

I'd like to hear from all of you who've given Blake's ideas a lot of thought, compared them with other golf instruction you've studied, and tried Blake's method for yourselves. Was Mindy right or wrong and what is your rationale for your conclusions? What are the flaws in his notion of a "reflex" swing?

1. Human anatomy and kinesiology allow the legs (exclusively) to provide all necessary energy/power for the golf swing.

2. A "connected" position of the right elbow, at address and throughout the swing, is key to "transmitting" leg energy/power to the hands and club.

Question for discussion: Could it be that 1 and 2 are, as Blake claimed, simply a special application of principles and techniques developed in field athletics, ie, events such as the javelin and discus throws? Blake at least implied that the legs "dragged" the club all the way to impact. But isn't the golfer's effort, whether exerted by legs and/or upper body, essentially complete by the moment of wrist release, ie, when angle between lead arm and shaft collapses at about 6/100 seconds before impact?

3. There should be little or no weight shift to trail side in the backswing; instead, the golfer's hips should shift targetward during the takeaway and backswing thus keeping the golfer's weight approximately balanced between the feet throughout the swing.

Question for discussion: Is 3 essential to the proper operation of 1 and 2? If so, why?

Jim

The redoubtable Ike Handy said that he never saw a
backswing that was too fast and he never saw a
downswing that was too slow. He believed that
maintaining the wrist cock while taking a downswing
as slow as you can manage and moving the entire
mass of the body through the ball was the best way
to distance with accuracy.

Several time State of Texas amateur champion.
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Joined: April 25th, 2011, 7:52 pm

April 25th, 2011, 8:03 pm #11

I'd like to hear from all of you who've given Blake's ideas a lot of thought, compared them with other golf instruction you've studied, and tried Blake's method for yourselves. Was Mindy right or wrong and what is your rationale for your conclusions? What are the flaws in his notion of a "reflex" swing?

1. Human anatomy and kinesiology allow the legs (exclusively) to provide all necessary energy/power for the golf swing.

2. A "connected" position of the right elbow, at address and throughout the swing, is key to "transmitting" leg energy/power to the hands and club.

Question for discussion: Could it be that 1 and 2 are, as Blake claimed, simply a special application of principles and techniques developed in field athletics, ie, events such as the javelin and discus throws? Blake at least implied that the legs "dragged" the club all the way to impact. But isn't the golfer's effort, whether exerted by legs and/or upper body, essentially complete by the moment of wrist release, ie, when angle between lead arm and shaft collapses at about 6/100 seconds before impact?

3. There should be little or no weight shift to trail side in the backswing; instead, the golfer's hips should shift targetward during the takeaway and backswing thus keeping the golfer's weight approximately balanced between the feet throughout the swing.

Question for discussion: Is 3 essential to the proper operation of 1 and 2? If so, why?

Jim

I tried the Blake swing but I did not like it because it stressed me more than anything else.
On paper or in theory, it looks fine. But since I, as many golfers, like to be more on the relax side, I think it has to be rethought.
It has a certain potential but definitely has to be refined.
I am working on this......
I want to incorporate the Blake influence but make it lot more comfortable.
We will see what it does when I publish my book.
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graham
graham

April 29th, 2011, 4:16 pm #12

I'd like to hear from all of you who've given Blake's ideas a lot of thought, compared them with other golf instruction you've studied, and tried Blake's method for yourselves. Was Mindy right or wrong and what is your rationale for your conclusions? What are the flaws in his notion of a "reflex" swing?

1. Human anatomy and kinesiology allow the legs (exclusively) to provide all necessary energy/power for the golf swing.

2. A "connected" position of the right elbow, at address and throughout the swing, is key to "transmitting" leg energy/power to the hands and club.

Question for discussion: Could it be that 1 and 2 are, as Blake claimed, simply a special application of principles and techniques developed in field athletics, ie, events such as the javelin and discus throws? Blake at least implied that the legs "dragged" the club all the way to impact. But isn't the golfer's effort, whether exerted by legs and/or upper body, essentially complete by the moment of wrist release, ie, when angle between lead arm and shaft collapses at about 6/100 seconds before impact?

3. There should be little or no weight shift to trail side in the backswing; instead, the golfer's hips should shift targetward during the takeaway and backswing thus keeping the golfer's weight approximately balanced between the feet throughout the swing.

Question for discussion: Is 3 essential to the proper operation of 1 and 2? If so, why?

Jim

did you know Mindy invented the Swingrite, whose main purpose was to train you how + when to release the wrists!
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