Joined: August 3rd, 2004, 3:51 pm

April 16th, 2018, 5:53 pm #21

Don M wrote: Herbert, can you cause the correct move to happen by focusing on something bigger picture?  Or do you have to focus on the muscles themselves?   This goes back to the internal/external focus problem of learning.
Great question!  Right now I am using internal focus.  I am thinking about my trail leg or lead hip on my backswing and then I think of driving up to stick my finish on the through swing.  I have also done a little bit of focus on keeping my head steady during the swing.  I found that the head steady focus produced good results doing skytrak skills tests, the problem is that I revert to my arms swing approach fairly quickly.  Obviously I am early in the learning process on this and I believe that internal focus is the only way to accomplish something approaching the movement that we are shooting for.  Eventually it would be nice to get to a point where I could drill and then make the swing without thinking.  Possibly I will be confident enough to make the clear key 32 ball drill work...  LOL you just never know! 
Don't worry about a thing,
'Cause every little thing gonna be all right
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 13th, 2018, 4:16 pm

April 16th, 2018, 7:33 pm #22

Don M wrote: Question for David Balbi.  (First, welcome!)
We've all seen filmed demonstrations of guys hitting a driver a long way from their knees.  Obviously, it's better to engage the lower body, but it begs the question, where are the easiest to fix power leaks in the typical bogey golfer's swing?  Are there significant leaks in the upper body action?

I'm very believing of something you have found, that most of us swing faster somewhere in the downswing other than the point of impact.  I've heard that many times from people who have studied it or have been coached by those who did.  So that's part of why I'm asking about the upper body.  It's part of the whole, but are there leaks there that might be easier to fix than those of the lower?  Where does the 80/20 principle apply, where do we get the most benefit from the simplest change?
Good questions.
Despite a thorough search, I can't find any data about how far a golfer can hit from a kneeling position or how accurately. It's easy to get carried away by the fact that they can hit from their knees (whereas most of us cannot) but how efficient is it really?
Most of the power leaks in an average golfer's swing are attributable to the inefficiency of the motion. The more moving parts, the harder to get them in sync and the harder to repeat the motion from the varying lies and slope that occur on the course.
The leaks on the upper body action are usually attributable to the unconscious actions that the brain takes in order to remain upright in the finish. Changes in spine position are the most common errors. If you think of the top of the spine relative to the ball, it's like the radius of a circle. If the center of the circle shifts, the bottom of the arc shifts and so the path of the club, the angle of attack and the face angle can all be influenced as a result. There is also a chain of events, known as the Kinematic Sequence, that describes efficient motion on the forward swing and the relative speeds and positions of the pelvis, upper body, lead arm and hands. If the hands, for example, actively start the forward swing, the Kinematic Sequence will be inefficient.
One way to think about what happens is that the power flows out from the body to the clubhead in much the same way that in a line of dominoes, knocking down the first domino will knock the second and then third and so on. In the golf swing, however, you not only need to start the dominoes falling, you also have to stop them and therefore there has to be a sequence to the deceleration phase of the swing which can only occur efficiently if the acceleration sequence is correctly initiated.

I like this analogy  - If it takes 200 feet of aggressive braking to stop a car traveling at 60 miles per hour and you want to be able to stop in 120 feet, your only option is to get better brakes. The distance that your body travels from impact to the finish is not going to change so the speed that you can be going at impact is affected by your ability to safely stop within that distance. The brain, therefore, makes a calculation based upon prior experience and determines that if you continue to accelerate all the way to impact, you will not be able to stop and therefore the brain will turn off the acceleration and sometimes even apply the brakes, somewhere between 12 and 30 inches before impact.

The good news is that in every case that I have seen, golfers are able to maintain the acceleration phase for longer when they do two things:
1: Determine exactly where the finish is going to be and train their brain to know that this is where they wish to finish.
2: Correctly activate and use the glutes in both the acceleration and deceleration phases of the swing.

If you ask a golfer to show you their finish, they may be able to demonstrate a decent finish position but when the ball is present they rarely if ever, achieve this position. Part of the problem is that they are not swinging with the intention of finishing. They are swinging with the intention of hitting the ball. In this scenario, they are probably 100% successful and 10% satisfied with the resulting shot. If their goal was to swing efficiently to the finish, they might only be 80% successful but they would probably be 60%-80% satisfied with the shot.

Consider this - if your goal is to hit the ball and you make contact with any part of it, you are 100% successful and you have no right to be satisfied or dissatisfied with where the ball goes.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 13th, 2018, 4:16 pm

April 16th, 2018, 7:38 pm #23

Don M wrote: Herbert, can you cause the correct move to happen by focusing on something bigger picture?  Or do you have to focus on the muscles themselves?   This goes back to the internal/external focus problem of learning.
When practicing you focus on the muscles, once you have mastered the motion it becomes a motion pattern that the brain can call on - just like signing your name or tying your shoelaces.

See https://focusband.com for more on neurofeedback training and how elite athletes train their brain for peak performance
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 12th, 2005, 1:15 am

April 17th, 2018, 2:15 am #24

dbalbi wrote:
ceedeee wrote: Balbi:  "...the right glute moves rotationally and the left glute fires down to straighten the left leg and provide stability. "

Sounds like early extension?
What do you mean by early extension? Not familiar with this term. Extension of what?
:)   Not stickin' my neck out on that one, so, early extension is like where you renew your subscription before it runs out.  :)
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 16th, 2005, 10:50 am

April 17th, 2018, 12:32 pm #25

Thanks, David.  That's good stuff, I'll have to think about how to apply it to my old man swing.
George Knudson taught about swinging to a finish position as one of the few goals of his method.  I thought that was a great book and video back in the day.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 3rd, 2004, 3:51 pm

April 17th, 2018, 2:38 pm #26

dbalbi wrote:


What do you mean by early extension? Not familiar with this term. Extension of what?
Here is an explanation of early extension that seems pretty good to me:
https://www.adamyounggolf.com/early-extension/

Regards, Herbert
Don't worry about a thing,
'Cause every little thing gonna be all right
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 13th, 2018, 4:16 pm

April 17th, 2018, 5:02 pm #27

OK, I get it now. Early extension is what I would refer to as loss of forward bend in the upper body and thrust of the pelvis. Having been involved with 3-D biomechanical analysis for over 20 years, I tend to think in those terms.
I looked at the adam young golf examples but it's very hard to look at a two-dimensional image and determine an outcome that is happening in multiple planes. 
What I can tell you is that extension at the waist and forward thrust of the pelvis can result in two detrimental outcomes.
1. The distance from the top of the spine to the ball changes, frequently resulting in a topped ball and also an open face. These are less damaging with a driver and more damaging with a lofted club.
2. The extension and thrust slow down or stop the rotation of the torso and pelvis - you can only go in one direction at once - and therefore you have potentially rendered your most powerful muscles useless at impact.

Interesting that a couple of the pictures that appear to show the most extension are of Jack Nicklaus and Greg Norman. Jack and Greg have very similar injury profiles - hip replacements, labrum tears, back issues - which is perhaps not surprising when you know that Greg learned to play by reading and copying Jack's book "Golf My Way".

In the hundreds of biomechanical measurements of Tour players that I have seen, the forward bend of the spine at impact is within 5 degrees of the address position so whereas there may be instances of large extension numbers, I think they are the exception rather than the rule.  I'm always open to reviewing actual data as opposed to photographs or video which can be very misleading because of the issue of trying to diagnose a three-dimensional motion using a two-dimensional medium.
Quote
Like
Share

Confirmation of reply: