Hogan

Hogan

Joined: September 22nd, 2005, 12:13 am

January 18th, 2007, 12:18 am #1

Quote from Blake from the article from GolfWorld "Hogan is the best example of what I am trying to explain. He has his right arm in the correct position.."
Why don't we just swing like Hogan?
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Joined: October 25th, 2004, 12:28 pm

January 18th, 2007, 6:29 am #2

Most people (me included), can't seem to get the proper lower body motion. Having your hips pointed to the target before you hit the ball. Also, another difficulty is dropping the club into the slot as you twist your hips.
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Joined: September 22nd, 2005, 12:13 am

January 18th, 2007, 9:17 am #3

True Jesse, reading on I see Mindy suggests his method makes it easier to get to the position. In regard to hips I think the reflex swing as Mindy describes it is more about pulling with the legs than twisting the hips (as Hogan may recommend). Certainly this time around on the Blake swing I am using the legs (knee action) rather than the hips and I find it much easier in both energy expenditure and on the aching back.
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Joined: August 2nd, 2004, 11:57 pm

January 18th, 2007, 1:59 pm #4

Quote from Blake from the article from GolfWorld "Hogan is the best example of what I am trying to explain. He has his right arm in the correct position.."
Why don't we just swing like Hogan?
From now on I'm swinging
just like Hogan.
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Joined: September 22nd, 2005, 12:13 am

January 19th, 2007, 3:40 am #5

.
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Joined: August 2nd, 2004, 11:57 pm

January 19th, 2007, 12:48 pm #6

Played first three holes at six over with Blake.
Reverted to CG and finished 43, 41 for 84.
Blake still seems so logical to me and I
really admire the swings of Richard and Trevino.
I just can't get it right yet. Will continue
to experiment with it. I think my biggest
problem is discomfort with alignment.
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Joined: September 22nd, 2005, 12:13 am

January 20th, 2007, 1:08 pm #7

I played Trevino style for a few years til I had back trouble. It was probably my most consistent scoring period with lots of greens in regulation. Blake is very similar in that regard. The funny thing is I always found that straight after using Trevino if I went to CG I hit the ball really well for a time. Interestingly a friend of mine wrote to Trevino when he was playing poorly using the Trevino swing. This was back in the early 80's. Trevino replied (nice guy it seems) and in the letter suggested to him that if he was having problems one useful thing to do was square up the stance a bit. Maybe you could try Blake from a squarer stance for a bit to ease the adjustment?
Cheers
Mac.
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Joined: September 6th, 2004, 3:46 am

January 21st, 2007, 5:40 am #8

Played first three holes at six over with Blake.
Reverted to CG and finished 43, 41 for 84.
Blake still seems so logical to me and I
really admire the swings of Richard and Trevino.
I just can't get it right yet. Will continue
to experiment with it. I think my biggest
problem is discomfort with alignment.
cd, What discomfort do you experience with alignment? I think you wrote here that you had overcome the feel of ambiguous alignment that some experience with an open stance. For dog's years I had a tendency to gravitate back to a square stance. Executing from an open stance didn't feel smooth and easy. I finally got comfortable with an open stance when I realized that I hit the ball better. Blake said "As soon as I decided to take the plunge [of an open stance], a whole lot of things slipped into place." One of these was enabling the "stone skimmer's shoulder turn," ie, from an open stance the hips will turn to about square while the shoulders keep turning." According to Mindy, this completely eliminates the problem of hips "collapsing" or turning with the shoulders in the backswing. Another plus, with hips square at the top: they aren't in the way of the downswing--no clearing required. Also, when I start from open, I come closer to what Mindy described as a feeling of "getting top part of body behind trail hip in the backswing." After setting up well open, with hands very low, as I close my shoulders by "twisting the rubber brick" I also push my hips a little toward the target. For some reason this little push with my hips just before starting back seems to produce a better result. Jim
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gsw
Joined: January 14th, 2007, 5:53 am

January 21st, 2007, 12:23 pm #9

Quote from Blake from the article from GolfWorld "Hogan is the best example of what I am trying to explain. He has his right arm in the correct position.."
Why don't we just swing like Hogan?
I can only play golf with an open stance. I block all of my shots so I simply must be open when I swing.


Stan
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Joined: September 22nd, 2005, 12:13 am

January 21st, 2007, 1:12 pm #10

cd, What discomfort do you experience with alignment? I think you wrote here that you had overcome the feel of ambiguous alignment that some experience with an open stance. For dog's years I had a tendency to gravitate back to a square stance. Executing from an open stance didn't feel smooth and easy. I finally got comfortable with an open stance when I realized that I hit the ball better. Blake said "As soon as I decided to take the plunge [of an open stance], a whole lot of things slipped into place." One of these was enabling the "stone skimmer's shoulder turn," ie, from an open stance the hips will turn to about square while the shoulders keep turning." According to Mindy, this completely eliminates the problem of hips "collapsing" or turning with the shoulders in the backswing. Another plus, with hips square at the top: they aren't in the way of the downswing--no clearing required. Also, when I start from open, I come closer to what Mindy described as a feeling of "getting top part of body behind trail hip in the backswing." After setting up well open, with hands very low, as I close my shoulders by "twisting the rubber brick" I also push my hips a little toward the target. For some reason this little push with my hips just before starting back seems to produce a better result. Jim
I too have found the feel of the lower body/hips going slightly forward on the backswing gives better results. It feels like this "sets" the lower body to drag the arms forward and at the moment it is one of the hardest things for me to remember to do. When I don't do it there is a tendency to come forward with the upper body in the downswing and hit ugly shots. I think this move is related to the forward press at the start and counter balances the arm movement in the take away.
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Joined: September 6th, 2004, 3:46 am

January 23rd, 2007, 3:33 am #11

The hip movement I described is done while still at address, almost like a forward press with the hips, though my hesitation after the movement is longer than with a forward press. It's interesting that you mention hip movement forward during the backswing because such a move was introduced by Mindy in GTTB. Since you don't have access to the later book, I suppose you discovered this on your own. In GTTB, Takeaway section, he wrote:

"The hips move towards the target and swivel 45 degrees until they are parallel to the line of flight." Then, at end of that section: "To summarize, the swing begins with a press (by the right leg) followed by the takeaway, in which the legs swing the trunk to the right and the undercarriage slides to the left to balance it."

Aside: Cool word that, ie, "undercarriage." In American usage, if used at all, it refers to "the supporting frame under the body of a vehicle." Is it used in Oz to refer to the lower part of the body?

As of the time of writing GTTB Blake continued to be enamored by the idea of keeping his weight balanced between the feet. Do you deliberately move the hips forward in takeaway/backswing or does it just happen naturally? Note that Blake changed his forward press from a slight movement by both knees to one with the right leg only. Between books Mindy wrote me that he was doing a "squat down" just before starting back, a movement made famous by Sam Snead and others, though not before the swing starts. Jim
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Joined: September 22nd, 2005, 12:13 am

January 23rd, 2007, 6:24 am #12

Undercarriage is an old British term for the wheel assembly on an airplane which reveals Mindy's past perhaps.
I tend to move both knees forward in the press then hold them forward as the club goes back. Although I seem to finish over the left side there is no big sense of weight shift in the traditional sense and I feel that the feet are mainly on the ground through the swing.
I am having difficulty getting the elbow in position and have been swinging poorly and having some back pain. I am moving to a squarer stance and working on holding the right elbow in position as a priority since this seems to be the absolute key to the reflex action and effortless power. I have a very long way to go before I would feel any sense of mastery of what Mindy poses and describes but I will go on one bit at a time; for now it is all about elbow position. When it is right the ball goes with a feeling of ease.
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Joined: September 6th, 2004, 3:46 am

January 25th, 2007, 6:34 am #13

With respect to keeping the right (trail) elbow in correct position, Blake introduced the following in GTTB:

"The action of the two hands together exerts pressure on the right elbow, forcing it more towards the centre of the body. The elements of this movement can be simulated by standing with the right arm well across the body and the palms together, horizontal to the ground. If the right hand is pushed backwards from the wrist by the left hand, the right elbow is immediately forced more across the body."

Doing this myself I find his conclusion to be valid. However, things are changed somewhat when the two hands are gripping a club. I can't be absolutely certain that my trail elbow is forced more across the body in backswing. Forum member Chris Walker (England) considers this phenomenon to be critical to the reflex swing. Jim
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