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China Mike was Right

Katastrof
One Of The Four Horseman
Katastrof
One Of The Four Horseman
Joined: 10:22 PM - Nov 29, 2006

6:53 PM - Apr 12, 2008 #1



"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero"(Seize the day put no trust in tomorrow)
~ Horace
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Comrade Jim
One Of The Four Horseman
Comrade Jim
One Of The Four Horseman
Joined: 6:44 PM - Jul 21, 2006

6:35 PM - Apr 13, 2008 #2

Yeah, embarassingly enough I read this in the actual Dail Mail newspaper but yes the ascent of China seems unstoppable which means a dictatorship as the world superpower which will eventually get tired of making everything for us as they get rich enough to get someone else to do it for us, doubt the world can support an extra billion people living a wasteful Western existence.

We just have to hope that China will become a democracy or the the West can continue to excercise their influence, also India would make a good democratic bulwark against China
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hello
Planning World Domination
hello
Planning World Domination
Joined: 12:43 PM - Feb 19, 2008

12:00 AM - Apr 14, 2008 #3

Although China has had pretty impressive growth ove the past few years, it has many problems as well such as, high levels of pollution, corrruption, poverty and the political system. Unless China has some sort of a revolution, I think it will crash and burn
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gay
Voted Most Likely to End the World
gay
Voted Most Likely to End the World
Joined: 7:45 PM - Apr 20, 2007

11:04 AM - Apr 17, 2008 #4

it's quite obvious that china will become democratic, looking at the trend over the past few centuries.
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Katastrof
One Of The Four Horseman
Katastrof
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Joined: 10:22 PM - Nov 29, 2006

9:39 PM - Apr 17, 2008 #5

gay wrote: it's quite obvious that china will become democratic, looking at the trend over the past few centuries.
What the f**k are you talking about?

Over the past few centuries China has been an Authoritative with an emperor government that only recently become a Totalitarian government with one party in control. If you're referring to their change from a communistic economy to a more capitalist economy than you're still off because the economic structure of the country does not dictate how it's ruled.

Yes, I agree that China has alot of problems of its own (pollution, civil rights issues, corruption et cetera) but I don't believe we have to worry so much because of China's political power, but rather their cultural power; that is Asia's cultural power. As the article stated, we are at the end of the American dominated century. Just like Britain's influence dwindled and vanished during the beginning of the 20th, so too will America's, and along with it, Western culture.

I think that's a bit scary.


"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero"(Seize the day put no trust in tomorrow)
~ Horace
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gay
Voted Most Likely to End the World
gay
Voted Most Likely to End the World
Joined: 7:45 PM - Apr 20, 2007

12:18 PM - Apr 18, 2008 #6

wrote: What the f**k are you talking about?
I'm talking about how the Chinese government will become more democratic in appearance, like most western governments. So that might be 2 political parties instead of one. Like uh, say, Chinese National Party and Chinese Democratic Party.
wrote: Over the past few centuries China has been an Authoritative with an emperor government that only recently become a Totalitarian government with one party in control. 
So having one party in control makes it Totalitarian?

"China is no longer a totalitarian society because access to information is not completely controlled. The build up of capitalism has given people access to the outside world as never before. Capitalism means that local authorities do not enforce controls that would hurt economic growth." - I couldn't have said it better myself.

I'm guessing that the Totalitarianism you were referring to is the period just after the communist party seized control, just like in the USSR - the capitalist witchhunts and purges, which is somewhat similar to American McCarthyism in the 1950s.
wrote: If you're referring to their change from a communistic economy to a more capitalist economy than you're still off because the economic structure of the country does not dictate how it's ruled.
There is no such thing as a "communistic" economy. The only feasible economy in existance is the market economy, which benefits everyone. Trade had always existed between countries and always will.
wrote: Yes, I agree that China has alot of problems of its own (pollution, civil rights issues, corruption et cetera) but I don't believe we have to worry so much because of China's political power, but rather their cultural power; that is Asia's cultural power. 
So you're scared of movies, music and books? Makes perfect sense.
I assume you have seen Shaolin football and Kung Fu Hustle?
wrote: As the article stated, we are at the end of the American dominated century. Just like Britain's influence dwindled and vanished during the beginning of the 20th, so too will America's, and along with it, Western culture.
No shit. But Britain's influence didn't just "vanish" at the beginning of the 20th, it actually expanded its empire during world war I, and only lost its colonies after WWII, which left it in huge debt.
wrote: I think that's a bit scary.
I don't. I accept all cultures, regardless of race or whatever other identity groups you assign to people.
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Katastrof
One Of The Four Horseman
Katastrof
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Joined: 10:22 PM - Nov 29, 2006

4:25 AM - Apr 19, 2008 #7

gay wrote: I'm talking about how the Chinese government will become more democratic in appearance, like most western governments. So that might be 2 political parties instead of one. Like uh, say, Chinese National Party and Chinese Democratic Party.
You're a joke. Did you even bother to research any of this or did you get it from the a university stuck up your ass?

The Communist Party of China will always be the ruling party of China because its entrenched in the Chinese constitution. That means it doesn't matter what political party the Chinese people elect, the Communist party will always be in power. Well, until a revolution happens.

What you are referring to is China's recent amendments to its constitution that allow for people to acquire private property. While that does undermine the ideal of Communism, it does not mean that the state government will change. If anything it shows that the Chinese government is willing to concede some of the Communist vision in order to keep power. So only one party.

And where do you get those two party names from? They sound like the Republicans and the Democrats, except I doubt China would ever adopt the American system...
wrote:So having one party in control makes it Totalitarian?

I'm guessing that the Totalitarianism you were referring to is the period just after the communist party seized control, just like in the USSR - the capitalist witchhunts and purges, which is somewhat similar to American McCarthyism in the 1950s.
No never meant that. I meant what I said. Just because China allowed for some private property does not mean they are the next freedom loving country. Not at all.
wrote:There is no such thing as a "communistic" economy. The only feasible economy in existance is the market economy, which benefits everyone. Trade had always existed between countries and always will.
True, but the PRC and the Soviet Union were the closet things to it. A communist economy is theoretical, but that doesn't mean that some countries haven't tried for it.

And there is no such thing as a "free market" in existence either.
wrote:So you're scared of movies, music and books? Makes perfect sense.
I assume you have seen Shaolin football and Kung Fu Hustle?
Culture: The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.

I'm not scared of movies (well maybe Slither...) or literature. I'm scared of the government of the PRC. A government that blocks internet sites; that censors magazines, movies, books; that silences all its dissenters and shows no mercy for those that oppose it.

You seem to think that because the mighty China is more flexible than it once was, means that it will bend to Western culture and ideas.

Hell no!

China is being flexible because the people currently in power have realized that a country that is not adaptable will collapse; just like the USSR before it. China will not be the one who bends to our will, it's the other way around. And I don't know about you, but I would not like to end up like a Tibetan protester because I criticized my government...
wrote:I don't. I accept all cultures, regardless of race or whatever other identity groups you assign to people.
Thanks Capitan PC. I'm sure you could get a nice censor job with the People's Republic of America.

I accept all races and groups but I do not accept all cultures. Like how I don't accept the cannibalistic culture of the MesoAmerican civilizations.


"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero"(Seize the day put no trust in tomorrow)
~ Horace
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piercehawkeye45
One Googol Years
piercehawkeye45
One Googol Years
Joined: 5:53 PM - Jul 02, 2006

7:47 PM - Apr 19, 2008 #8

China and the USSR were never even close to communist, they were a state capitalist country.
Dropped the atomic bomb let them know that it's real
Speak soft with a big stick do what I say or be killed
I'm America!

I have found the enemy and he is us.
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Katastrof
One Of The Four Horseman
Katastrof
One Of The Four Horseman
Joined: 10:22 PM - Nov 29, 2006

9:46 PM - Apr 19, 2008 #9

I know what communism is; I'm aware that the USSR and China never achieved it. I'm saying though, that they are the closest thing we've seen to communism yet.


"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero"(Seize the day put no trust in tomorrow)
~ Horace
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gay
Voted Most Likely to End the World
gay
Voted Most Likely to End the World
Joined: 7:45 PM - Apr 20, 2007

7:42 PM - Apr 22, 2008 #10

wrote:You're a joke. Did you even bother to research any of this or did you get it from the  a university stuck up your ass?
Maybe getting your grammar correct would help when throwing what seems to be desperate insults in an attempt to gain credibility. But then again, what credibility can you have, without an ounce of evidence to back up your arguments?
wrote:The Communist Party of China will always be the ruling party of China because its entrenched in the Chinese constitution. That means it doesn't matter what political party the Chinese people elect, the Communist party will always be in power. Well, until a revolution happens.
I don't call the dissolution of the USSR a revolution.
wrote:What you are referring to is China's recent amendments to its constitution that allow for people to acquire private property. While that does undermine the ideal of Communism, it does not mean that the state government will change. If anything it shows that the Chinese government is willing to concede some of the Communist vision in order to keep power. So only one party.
The ideal of Communism as the idealogy of the CCP? It has long since mutated into Nationalism. Keep with the times. Just because it says Chinese Communist Party doesn't mean it's communist, just like the Democratic Party isn't actually democratic.
wrote:And where do you get those two party names from? They sound like the Republicans and the Democrats, except I doubt China would ever adopt the American system...
The Chinese Nationalist Party was banished to Taiwan around 1950, and the Chinese Democracy Party was destroyed around 1999. Not really worth mentioning, just some of the organizations the CCP destroyed.
wrote:No never meant that. I meant what I said. Just because China allowed for some private property does not mean they are the next freedom loving country. Not at all.
The Chinese people can access the internet, except for some anti-government material. I don't call this totalitarianism. Note that a lot of terrorist websites are based in the US. I would prefer that the government ban these websites rather have them openly accessible so terrorists can do more 9/11s.
And just for the record, China IS a freedom-loving country. Everyone loves freedom. This is like saying that America "are" not tolerant of Blacks.
wrote:True, but the PRC and the Soviet Union were the closet things to it. A communist economy is theoretical, but that doesn't mean that some countries haven't tried for it.

And there is no such thing as a "free market" in existence either.
A communist economy is where everyone works for the benefit of everyone else. I don't see this happening without a secret police. And I didn't say a "free" market, because that's just an idea like "Water boils at 100 degrees", I just said a market economy, which is where people trade goods and services. I don't see people working for nothing, so a market economy where people work for SOMETHING, is the only feasible economy. Sorry, simple logic there, perhaps I oversimplified it to help you understand.
wrote:Culture: The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.

I'm not scared of movies (well maybe Slither...) or literature. I'm scared of the government of the PRC. A government that blocks internet sites; that censors magazines, movies, books; that silences all its dissenters and shows no mercy for those that oppose it.

You seem to think that because the mighty China is more flexible than it once was, means that it will bend to Western culture and ideas.

Hell no!

China is being flexible because the people currently in power have realized that a country that is not adaptable will collapse; just like the USSR before it. China will not be the one who bends to our will, it's the other way around. And I don't know about you, but I would not like to end up like a Tibetan protester because I criticized my government...
So you're scared of the government of the PRC? Why? They have 2.5K planes, you have 15K, plus a crapload more ships and what-have-you.

China WILL bend to Western culture and ideas? Sorry, that already happened. You see all this consumerism and materialism in China today, if you just go there. If you can see all this fraud going on, the property market is red hot, MacDonalds have sprung up everywhere, charging prices 40x what is sold on the streets. In fact, I could say that China is MORE consumerist and materialist than America today!

You wouldn't like to end up like a Tibetan protestor? Why would you be one in the first place? You're not "oppressed" by the CCP, and here are some facts about Tibet:

1. Tibetans are not affected by the "one-child" policy in china
2. Tibetans don't have to pay tax like the other Chinese do.
3. Tibetans get added marks to get them into better schools than Chinese.
4. The CCP has poured huge amounts of money in order to help the economic development of Tibet.
5. Every year, cities send in experts to Tibet in order to educate Tibetans and help out Tibet, such as doctors, who have to carry their equipment all the way over to Tibet.

Why would you want to protest against the CCP? Oh I know, to jump on the "Bash China because it's cool" bandwagon.
wrote:I accept all races and groups but I do not accept all cultures. Like how I don't accept the cannibalistic culture of the MesoAmerican civilizations.
Oh like how you killed those native americans and australians all the way back, and then brought Blacks over to becomes slaves to work your plantations?
EDIT:

I couldn't have put it in better words than this part of a text I found on google:
wrote:One crucial marker is the link between economic performance and political maturity. According to the Taiwan Institute of Economic Research, it was only possible to begin dismantling Taiwan's dictatorship in the mid-1980s when the per capita GDP had reached US$5,000. The institute's president, David S. Hong, suggests that China will not be ready for such a transformation until per capita GDP reaches US$15,000, perhaps more than a generation from now. At present the GDP is about US$2,000 against Taiwan's US$17,000.

Both the Chinese government and Tibetan activists could learn from the Taiwan example.At present, decades of Chinese investment and economic growth in Tibet have had scant effect on Tibetan subjects who cling to their culture and religion even if that means less material improvement. China, too, remains determined to preserve its control over Tibet no matter what the economic cost may be. It's a lose-lose situation.

Tibet is straddled between India and China, the two economic giants of the 21st century and perfectly placed to become an integral member of the global supply chain. For that to happen, though, Tibetan activists must stop attacking Chinese businesses. Chinese security forces must give space to Tibetan culture and expression. Both sides could then begin to trust each other and work together to create a Taiwan-style success story instead of a lingering victim with an unjust past.
Oh and just for the record, some American colonists were also cannibalist - you need look no further than Jamestown.
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