Halton Sports

Halton Sports

Tufty
Tufty

June 10th, 2009, 9:16 am #1

From official site "The Halton Sports site was identified as a location that had a number of advantages, including the provision of a good playing surface, existing changing and hospitality facilities, and the presence of an all-weather surface that could be renovated for both club and public use".

Bit confused as to this.
Having been to Halton Sports playing areas etc, I would argue against the following. The playing surface is not the best, however if a new stadium is to be constructed, then surely it would ahve a new pitch and playing surface laid with appropiate drainage?

The changing rooms again are not the best, infact one block is simply portacabins which could be could obtained easily and used on any site.

The hospitality areas are part of an exiting club, so not exactly a way for the club to obtain a social club with its own identity. How would revenue from the bar etc be obtained through an already existing social club?

The all weather pitch is dire, basically a gravel area that floods in heavy rain. It has a low level of floodlighting on there which arent the best for visibility.
It is located a stone throw away from Brookvale Rec which has a much better all weather facility. Brookvale is council run, so why would the council want another facility in the same catchment area?

The social club does not give direct access to the Stadium area, unless constructed on the Bowling Green location.

From reading this press release, the only benefit seems to be that the Club would be playing in the Runcorn area.
Yes, the land has a lot more space for development than The College Campus, but its not the best geographic area in Runcorn and away from the core catchment area of the traditional fan base.
It appears that the development of a stadium on this site, would be the basic construction offering floodlights, covered areas and an enclosed wall, far less facilities and potential than if the club was to develop its on site. You also have to ask what the council will receive in terms of profitability on their £100,000 investment, which in reality isnt actually a lot given what they spend on other sporting areas/facilities.
One main disadvantage over the College site, is that its not within walking distance of Runcorn town centre and the mainline station.
Halton Sports is also home to existing teams, who use the base for raffles etc, again impacting on what Runcorn Linnets could target the clubs members for after games etc.

Yes the project is a step nearer to Runcorn, but it doesnt look like the best thought out plans and you have to ask is it worth the £100,000 handout?
Given that the council could develop other areas of the town, especially in terms of providing a sporting facility for the community, there are much better locations out there.
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runnerglyn
runnerglyn

June 10th, 2009, 10:12 am #2

To build a stand and add "the services" needed for a ground of the standard required, how much do you think 200k will buy not a lot this day and age floodlights are not cheap neither is a seated stand maybe this area should have been considered after we have outlived the college site which was capable of conference north with additions made to the originals plans on the Linnets website, looking at the figures quoted on the ground project page which were given as rough estimates at the time but not too far off in most cases, we need to hoping the wording on the council minutess is changed...not "up to a maximum of 100k"...we will need 100k and 100k+ from other funding bodies, the last line on the minutes worries me, the club will be running the area, so from cutting the grass on the pitch, to securing the area, that wasnt a factor at the college as there was adequate provisions in place, i.e fenced off, locked gates at night at halton Sports there isn't, so a huge chunk of the monies will go on this kind of thing, the infrastructure was practically there at the college, a shift in something has not helped us one bit, but any news is good news moving home, but the club must be viable, doing the same things at Halton Sports we are doing now at Witton will not see us do that its ok saying the pub is there to hold functions thats simply too simple a way of saying well we will try and see what happens, having your own social facility making monies for your own club is the only way forward plus Halton Sports hold entertianment most weekends so that isn't the best place to try and make monies to keep the club moving in the right direction, plus the removal of the roundabout at the bottom of the road for the new bridge plans, is this in anyway going to affect this proposal,how much of the land is affected by the upcoming plans for the Mersey Gateway regarding the Halton Sports Site.
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tom thumb
tom thumb

June 10th, 2009, 12:56 pm #3

We will never own our own ground again, lets face it.
So this is the best chance of coming back to Runcorn we have to take it.
The population of Runcorn will be 75% over the age of sixty-five in a few years time, so will not want to travel out of town to watch football for much longer.
The only chance of a new young fan base is to be in the new town end of town where there are kids mad on football.
This ground is right on the bus way, so fans from both ends of Runcorn can get to it easy.
If we work with the existing clubs this will increase our fan base, Im sure we can work out nights to put funding raising nights on with the existing clubs, you may even get a better turn out to these events and help.
The only worry I have is paying rent and paying players we will need to get three hundred. In the ground to pay our way.
The college site was just a dream unless we win the lottery, its clear it would never happen in the next five or ten years with the credit crunch.


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I wont put my name, as Im scared of you knowing wh
I wont put my name, as Im scared of you knowing wh

June 10th, 2009, 1:31 pm #4

From official site "The Halton Sports site was identified as a location that had a number of advantages, including the provision of a good playing surface, existing changing and hospitality facilities, and the presence of an all-weather surface that could be renovated for both club and public use".

Bit confused as to this.
Having been to Halton Sports playing areas etc, I would argue against the following. The playing surface is not the best, however if a new stadium is to be constructed, then surely it would ahve a new pitch and playing surface laid with appropiate drainage?

The changing rooms again are not the best, infact one block is simply portacabins which could be could obtained easily and used on any site.

The hospitality areas are part of an exiting club, so not exactly a way for the club to obtain a social club with its own identity. How would revenue from the bar etc be obtained through an already existing social club?

The all weather pitch is dire, basically a gravel area that floods in heavy rain. It has a low level of floodlighting on there which arent the best for visibility.
It is located a stone throw away from Brookvale Rec which has a much better all weather facility. Brookvale is council run, so why would the council want another facility in the same catchment area?

The social club does not give direct access to the Stadium area, unless constructed on the Bowling Green location.

From reading this press release, the only benefit seems to be that the Club would be playing in the Runcorn area.
Yes, the land has a lot more space for development than The College Campus, but its not the best geographic area in Runcorn and away from the core catchment area of the traditional fan base.
It appears that the development of a stadium on this site, would be the basic construction offering floodlights, covered areas and an enclosed wall, far less facilities and potential than if the club was to develop its on site. You also have to ask what the council will receive in terms of profitability on their £100,000 investment, which in reality isnt actually a lot given what they spend on other sporting areas/facilities.
One main disadvantage over the College site, is that its not within walking distance of Runcorn town centre and the mainline station.
Halton Sports is also home to existing teams, who use the base for raffles etc, again impacting on what Runcorn Linnets could target the clubs members for after games etc.

Yes the project is a step nearer to Runcorn, but it doesnt look like the best thought out plans and you have to ask is it worth the £100,000 handout?
Given that the council could develop other areas of the town, especially in terms of providing a sporting facility for the community, there are much better locations out there.
some good points raised by Tufty, but this one stood out for me :

Yes, the land has a lot more space for development than The College Campus, but its not the best geographic area in Runcorn and away from the core catchment area of the traditional fan base.


This is the problem Runcorn has, 'the CORE catchment area' ...this was fine all those years ago when teh club was playing in the old town...how many new town fans used to go the game - not many and the main reason was they thought it was a club for the old towners.

Th etraditional fan base has not been forthcoming in their support of the club and if we can now intrest NEW supporters by being located in teh New town then thi scan only be a good thing.

It seems the club cany do right for doing wrong....people beg them to get back to runcorn, they announce a possible return and its all doom and gloom.

surely all the points raised should have already been discusssed before the plans even went to the council.
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Concerned fan
Concerned fan

June 10th, 2009, 2:11 pm #5

This announcment basically says that the club has no real viable option of obtaining funding for its own ground and it may as well cut its losses and take any option to play in Runcorn.
This plan also spells the end for any ambition on the pitch, as the facility, lack of own social club and low level investment for a high stake coucil involvement, means that progression of a stadium and funding needed for a stadium above North West Counties Level is a pipedream.
Im worried about the councils funding, basically buying into a stake of the club and the stadium as a cheap way of developing their land and keeping running costs of a site down to the minimum.

In truth, I cant see kids in either the New Town or the Old Town latching onto any club in the area, Kids want Premier League and whilst this is expensive, its readily available on the internet (Any live game can be found), broadcast in most pubs/social clubs and a lot of houses also have SKY. Those kids not watching through these means, also play themselves on a Saturday and allowing a buy in of a new generation of supporter, as such a low level of football is not going to attract much greater numbers than we have now.

Once we have returned to Runcorn, I cant see gates getting above an average figure of 180. Those supporters with an interest already attend now, with a few passing fans who could be tempted along.

This announcment basically says that the club have explored all avenues of fundraising towards the new stadium and have hit a brick wall.
A stated elsewhere, the majority of the Totaliser's stagnant funds have come from Thwaites and Hawden Kitchens, who havent offered hard cash but a cash equivalent in materials to be used towards specific project areas.
Halton Sports already has a social club, so the Thwaites money wont be forthcoming. One option would be to build a stadium at Halton Sports and develop its own social club on an alternative site, but without the matchday location that is not a viable prospect. One would argue that the old club, should have kept the Linnets Club, which would have raised valuable revenue and would have been located bang in the middle of a new housing area with more customers on its doors.

The main point now comes down to accepting a £100,000 investment and geting into bed with the council, wich will allow a quick return to Runcorn, or to holdout for an option that is much better to the future of the club.
If your going to acept £100,000 off the council, which comes at a cost, then the club may as well tout itself to a private investor who would take ownership of the club.

If the council are prepared to offer a deal, then Im sure £1million and a decent venture would not be missed out of Council Budgets and would secure a better investmentand return than a £100,000 investment for a project that lacks any ambition. Allowing for a greater return from sports funding bodies and the FA.


It seems little thought has gone into this, little consultation with the fans and the trust members and the "anything will do" attitude of the current board is once again evident rather than the "Only the best will do" attitude.
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Cowboy
Cowboy

June 10th, 2009, 2:16 pm #6

some good points raised by Tufty, but this one stood out for me :

Yes, the land has a lot more space for development than The College Campus, but its not the best geographic area in Runcorn and away from the core catchment area of the traditional fan base.


This is the problem Runcorn has, 'the CORE catchment area' ...this was fine all those years ago when teh club was playing in the old town...how many new town fans used to go the game - not many and the main reason was they thought it was a club for the old towners.

Th etraditional fan base has not been forthcoming in their support of the club and if we can now intrest NEW supporters by being located in teh New town then thi scan only be a good thing.

It seems the club cany do right for doing wrong....people beg them to get back to runcorn, they announce a possible return and its all doom and gloom.

surely all the points raised should have already been discusssed before the plans even went to the council.
Halton Sports is an 11th hour thing....nobody (outside the board and its confidentes) saw it com ing. The haste that it has been done with will inevitably lead to things being overlooked but from a club perspective if youre faced with "we'll back you returning to the town in 12 months at Halton Sports" or "You're on your own at the College field of Dreams" The decision is a no -brainer.

There are risks at Halton Sports that need to be mitigated but no more than the college. There are significant advantages over the 'old town' site. Lets f**k this scouser / wolly thing off once and for all its RUNCORN. It's 25 years since we were throwing bricks at each other on St Chads school field. Just because can't hear Parish Bells from there doesn't make it bad.

Truth be told the new town was ALWAYS going to be a better bet for the club. In a crowd of 130 at Witton any young voices heard tended to have a Liverpudlian twang. Come to think of it a SIGNIFICANT portion of the older voices are too. They all live in Runcorn and funnily enough (Tufty this is for you) Scousers aren't second class citizens unless you happen to be Boris Johnson or a member of the royal family.

As for the "clubhouse" argument. Commercial reality please....if we give them 150 customers every other Saturday / Mid week then it's a significant amount of purchasing power that can be used to work for us. Pubs are NOT thriving in the current recession. Halton Arms is not immune!!!

Glyn, I'm not sure how far £200,000 will go in buying and kitting a ground. Far enough to satify the needs of Vodkat Prem to be certain or we wouldn't consider it. You have to agree and have done "Better a base in the town than languishing in Greater Northwich." The opportunity to run a reserve side, etc would be much more feasible.

Lets get on with it....
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I wont put my name, as Im scared of you knowing wh
I wont put my name, as Im scared of you knowing wh

June 10th, 2009, 2:20 pm #7

This announcment basically says that the club has no real viable option of obtaining funding for its own ground and it may as well cut its losses and take any option to play in Runcorn.
This plan also spells the end for any ambition on the pitch, as the facility, lack of own social club and low level investment for a high stake coucil involvement, means that progression of a stadium and funding needed for a stadium above North West Counties Level is a pipedream.
Im worried about the councils funding, basically buying into a stake of the club and the stadium as a cheap way of developing their land and keeping running costs of a site down to the minimum.

In truth, I cant see kids in either the New Town or the Old Town latching onto any club in the area, Kids want Premier League and whilst this is expensive, its readily available on the internet (Any live game can be found), broadcast in most pubs/social clubs and a lot of houses also have SKY. Those kids not watching through these means, also play themselves on a Saturday and allowing a buy in of a new generation of supporter, as such a low level of football is not going to attract much greater numbers than we have now.

Once we have returned to Runcorn, I cant see gates getting above an average figure of 180. Those supporters with an interest already attend now, with a few passing fans who could be tempted along.

This announcment basically says that the club have explored all avenues of fundraising towards the new stadium and have hit a brick wall.
A stated elsewhere, the majority of the Totaliser's stagnant funds have come from Thwaites and Hawden Kitchens, who havent offered hard cash but a cash equivalent in materials to be used towards specific project areas.
Halton Sports already has a social club, so the Thwaites money wont be forthcoming. One option would be to build a stadium at Halton Sports and develop its own social club on an alternative site, but without the matchday location that is not a viable prospect. One would argue that the old club, should have kept the Linnets Club, which would have raised valuable revenue and would have been located bang in the middle of a new housing area with more customers on its doors.

The main point now comes down to accepting a £100,000 investment and geting into bed with the council, wich will allow a quick return to Runcorn, or to holdout for an option that is much better to the future of the club.
If your going to acept £100,000 off the council, which comes at a cost, then the club may as well tout itself to a private investor who would take ownership of the club.

If the council are prepared to offer a deal, then Im sure £1million and a decent venture would not be missed out of Council Budgets and would secure a better investmentand return than a £100,000 investment for a project that lacks any ambition. Allowing for a greater return from sports funding bodies and the FA.


It seems little thought has gone into this, little consultation with the fans and the trust members and the "anything will do" attitude of the current board is once again evident rather than the "Only the best will do" attitude.
Do you live in a fucking bubble. Who's investing in anything in thew midst of an unprecedented global recission?
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WPBA
WPBA

June 10th, 2009, 2:32 pm #8

Halton Sports is an 11th hour thing....nobody (outside the board and its confidentes) saw it com ing. The haste that it has been done with will inevitably lead to things being overlooked but from a club perspective if youre faced with "we'll back you returning to the town in 12 months at Halton Sports" or "You're on your own at the College field of Dreams" The decision is a no -brainer.

There are risks at Halton Sports that need to be mitigated but no more than the college. There are significant advantages over the 'old town' site. Lets f**k this scouser / wolly thing off once and for all its RUNCORN. It's 25 years since we were throwing bricks at each other on St Chads school field. Just because can't hear Parish Bells from there doesn't make it bad.

Truth be told the new town was ALWAYS going to be a better bet for the club. In a crowd of 130 at Witton any young voices heard tended to have a Liverpudlian twang. Come to think of it a SIGNIFICANT portion of the older voices are too. They all live in Runcorn and funnily enough (Tufty this is for you) Scousers aren't second class citizens unless you happen to be Boris Johnson or a member of the royal family.

As for the "clubhouse" argument. Commercial reality please....if we give them 150 customers every other Saturday / Mid week then it's a significant amount of purchasing power that can be used to work for us. Pubs are NOT thriving in the current recession. Halton Arms is not immune!!!

Glyn, I'm not sure how far £200,000 will go in buying and kitting a ground. Far enough to satify the needs of Vodkat Prem to be certain or we wouldn't consider it. You have to agree and have done "Better a base in the town than languishing in Greater Northwich." The opportunity to run a reserve side, etc would be much more feasible.

Lets get on with it....
I see the tossers at the Council, the same Council who helped destroy Runcorn FC when it was faced with leaving Canal Street and the same bunch of retards who have pumped millions fo Halton Taxpayers money into the Community White Elephant at Widnes, are now ignorant of a few facts.

This is interesting reading
http://councillors.halton.gov.uk/Publis ... ocA.ps.pdf

Firstly, the council should take a look at Runcorn Town, a club with more community involvement than Runcorn FC has ever given in any of its formats.
The investment needed to take Runcorn Town past Runcorn Linnets is minimal, basically a set of floodlights.

The Council gives mention to its study from Liverpool Uni, a study thats now over 10 years old, a study they themselves chose to ignore when they allowed Runcorn Fc to fold at Canal Street and to move to Prescott.

This offer is nothing more than securing a future for the councils own failing sites, minimal investment for a great return on servicing a current site. Basically servicing a social facility at Halton Sports.
If the council was to conduct a detailed study, then they would find that Haddocks Wood would allow for a lot better investment, with Runcorn Linnets developing their own social club.
Structures are already in place at Haddocks Wood and its location in between the Old Town, a rejuvinated Castlefields and a wealthy Sandymoor, would allow for the atraction of a wider fanbase.
It would also allow for another sporting development to be located in a part of the town that is missing the facility previously provided by Halton Council though Castlefields Recreation centre.
Development of an all weather facility at Haddocks Wood would not impact on Brookvale Rec and would improve the sporting healty lifestyle of the Borough that they are soon suddenly keen to develop.

In reality Runcorn Linnets Trust, should present Haddocks Wood as a possible viable option.
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tom thumb
tom thumb

June 10th, 2009, 3:20 pm #9

Haddocks wood is even more run down than Halton sports, and people forget its exists, so it would be a dead loss trying to get new town people to the ground ,and would cost more to do up.
To build our own clubhouse these days would take a million pounds at least.
As most of the fans very rarely drank in the clubhouse, its a waste of money and would only cripple us with its debts, so sharing is better.
I dont think we should look a gift horse in the mouth, sure there is something in it for the council, they get Haltons sports done up half price.
Ask yourself which area has the most young people living in it to make a new fan base.
I think the answer is the new town by a mile; it also gives us a chance to distance ourselves even more from Runcorn FC Halton and show we are a brand new club.
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I wont put my name, as Im scared of you knowing wh
I wont put my name, as Im scared of you knowing wh

June 10th, 2009, 3:20 pm #10

some good points raised by Tufty, but this one stood out for me :

Yes, the land has a lot more space for development than The College Campus, but its not the best geographic area in Runcorn and away from the core catchment area of the traditional fan base.


This is the problem Runcorn has, 'the CORE catchment area' ...this was fine all those years ago when teh club was playing in the old town...how many new town fans used to go the game - not many and the main reason was they thought it was a club for the old towners.

Th etraditional fan base has not been forthcoming in their support of the club and if we can now intrest NEW supporters by being located in teh New town then thi scan only be a good thing.

It seems the club cany do right for doing wrong....people beg them to get back to runcorn, they announce a possible return and its all doom and gloom.

surely all the points raised should have already been discusssed before the plans even went to the council.
i beg to differ has the club or the council approached the publican and the brewery running the Halton Arms that would be intresting to find out.
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