Uncialclock

Dozenal computer tools
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Joined: Apr 11 2006, 12:29 PM

Apr 13 2018, 02:16 PM #121

#119 is a very helpful synopsis!
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Paul Rapoport
Dozens Disciple
Paul Rapoport
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Joined: Dec 26 2012, 01:59 AM

Apr 13 2018, 03:22 PM #122

Your clocks illustrate the workings of dozenal more completely. I find both sets of clocks better without the bicia marks, as you explained, except in the rare instance when I need to see a precise division of the fastest hand's movement between numerals. (My clock is also available as an app for iPhones and Apple's tablets, with a timer function.)

The clock of mine you refer to does not do phases, correct. The wristwatch, which is digital with no analog-like hands turning, does do phases, shifts, and "semi-shifts," which you may have another name for (a watch?). So the wristwatch handles all the divisions of a dozen:

1 diurnal (20z hours, a day)
2 semi-diurnal (10z hours)
3 shift; digits mark 0.4z day (8 hours), 0.04z day (0.8z hour, 40d minutes), 0.004z day (3.3d minutes), 0.0004z day (16.6d seconds)
4 phase (6 hours)
6 semi-shift; digits mark 0.2z day (4 hours), 0.02z day (0.4z hour, 20d minutes), 0.002z day (100d seconds), 0.0002z day (8.3d seconds)

You may start the day at, for example, 6 AM, or count the time in phases, or both. The start time and divisions are independent of one other; e.g. you may start the day at 6 AM (1 phase, a 1/4 day past midnight) and choose to divide it diurnally. One of these days I may use shifts more. They make sense. Inherently are they less useful than phases?

Have you considered adding shifts and semi-shifts to Uncial Clock Deluxe?
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Kodegadulo
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Kodegadulo
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Joined: Sep 10 2011, 11:27 PM

Apr 13 2018, 05:02 PM #123

Paul Rapoport wrote: The clock of mine you refer to does not do phases, correct. The wristwatch, which is digital with no analog-like hands turning, does do phases, shifts, and "semi-shifts," which you may have another name for (a watch?).
Yes, 4 hours, or 2 dwells, or a sixth of a day, is a "watch", on the strength of it being the length of a traditional Royal Navy watch (not counting the fact that one of these would be split into 2 "dog watches" of 1 dwell each). I think Oschkar worked out names for senary divisions of the day for his senary Ash-Ashtrian metrology, in which "watch" colloquialized the unsencia·day, "gong" the bisencia·day (40d minutes, a big brother to the "bell" of 30d minutes), and thereafter I'm shaky.

Paul Rapoport wrote: You may start the day at, for example, 6 AM, or count the time in phases, or both. The start time and divisions are independent of one other; e.g. you may start the day at 6 AM (1 phase, a 1/4 day past midnight) and choose to divide it diurnally.
UCD also has a Day Start Option on the Configuration dialog that lets you select from Midnight, Sunrise, Noon, Sunset.  All three clocks do a gradient fill in their central core to indicate what the sky will do during the current rotation of their pink hand. When you pick a start of Sunrise or Sunset, the Semidiurnal clock is smart enough to show the clock periods as "Lux" (daylight) vs "Nox" (nighttime), rather than "AM" vs. "PM". 

The dialog also lets you pick an Orientation Option independently for each clock, indicating the cardinal direction of zero (Zero Up, Zero Right, Zero Down, Zero Left).



Paul Rapoport wrote: One of these days I may use shifts more. They make sense. Inherently are they less useful than phases?

Have you considered adding shifts and semi-shifts to Uncial Clock Deluxe?
I'm wondering what you mean by "using" these things.  Do you make the shift or the watch the period for the slowest hand, and then take dozenal divisions of that? For me to do that I'd need to add whole new clock faces, and supporting Clock Options, for a "Shift Clock" and a "Watch Clock", which would be rather an involved revision. The Configuration dialog would have to get correspondingly wider to accommodate. But it could be done.

Or do you just use one of your existing clock faces, and then mark off portions of the diurnal clock face to show the ranges of shifts or watches?  For instance, you mentioned that you colorize such ranges for phases on your UTC diurnal clock.  UCD does something sort of like that in that the diurnal clock displays the (abbreviated) names of the phases in their respective corners. But this is obviously not as fine-grained as your UTC clock, which needs half-dwell (or even quarter-dwell) granularity in the orientation of the phase indicators, in order to accommodate being in any time zone.
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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Paul Rapoport
Dozens Disciple
Paul Rapoport
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Joined: Dec 26 2012, 01:59 AM

Apr 13 2018, 11:41 PM #124

Kodegadulo wrote:Do you make the shift or the watch the period for the slowest hand, and then take dozenal divisions of that?
Yes. In the phases, shifts, and watches on the wristwatch (which has numbers only), the first digit indicates the period of the day you are in in the first division (diurnal, semi-, etc.), starting with 0. After that, all divisions are by a dozen.

As for the UTC clocks, I don't say local time or refer to time zones, because there are neither. From the manual: "The colored arcs represent the phases of the local day: overnight, morning, afternoon, evening. On the A clocks they are stationary. On the B clocks they rotate."

The main question for me remains: is it useful to count time by shifts? With subsequent division by dozens, as you said. Is it less useful than by phases?
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Kodegadulo
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Kodegadulo
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Joined: Sep 10 2011, 11:27 PM

Apr 14 2018, 11:35 AM #125

Paul Rapoport wrote:The main question for me remains: is it useful to count time by shifts? With subsequent division by dozens, as you said. Is it less useful than by phases?
Well, to be honest, I think it's actually more useful to settle on one common way of measuring time and then map auxiliary periods onto that. For instance, I can see work shifts being scheduled in diurnal time at trice 000z, trice 400z, and trice 800z; or perhaps at something like trice 060z, 460z, and 860z, maybe with a quarter-dwell overlap on either side. Likewise, it's pretty clear on the diurnal clock that the phases of the day occur at the dozenal quarters: trice 000z, trice 300z, trice 600z, and trice 900z.

Frankly, my main purpose in conceiving of phasic time was simply as a thought experiment, an exercise in alternate history. Mostly as a foil for those trying to claim that there is some law of nature that determined that the two-dozen-hour day was inevitable, when it seems obvious to me that it was nothing more than a historical accident. What if the ancients didn't just divide the day at sunrise and sunset -- or is that noon and midnight? -- before making a dozenal division? What if they chose to divide the day at all four cardinal points, drawing on the analogy of the compass or the seasons? Then we would have a whole history of civilization exclusively using phasic clocks, instead of semi-diurnal ones. The fact that this is plausible, but just as arbitrary as our semi-diurnal history, helps make the case for dispensing with all such arbitrary complexities, and instead opt for the simplest scheme: make the turtles dozenal, all the way down. Isn't that the conceit of the Metric system (although with decimal as the base)?  Well the DSA founders did describe duor, temin, minette, etc. as part of their "Do-metric system", after all.

It's fun to be able to see what the world would be like if such historical accidents had happened differently, and compare and contrast different alternate worlds,  even perhaps ones where the shift or the watch was the major period, before going to dozens. Just as it's fun to see what life would be like if we used different bases, and had clocks in those bases. But I don't imagine people within a single culture would use all these different choices at once. At most, if neighboring cultures settled on different choices but still wanted to have commerce, you might want to consult foreign clocks along with your own, in order to help you translate. But perhaps you'd see a move to have everyone opt for a single standard internationally.
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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Kodegadulo
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Kodegadulo
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Joined: Sep 10 2011, 11:27 PM

Apr 15 2018, 12:22 PM #126

Periodic Table of Divisions of the Day

Here's a roll-up of various dozenal-regular divisions of the day, arranged in columns sharing a common simple divisor, and rows sharing a common dozenal order of magnitude. For each, I list a colloquial name that has been suggested for it at one time or another on this forum, or if none has been proposed, I list possible derived colloquials taking advantage of one or more of the following Latinate prefixes: quadra· = 4, bina· = 2, semi· = 1/2, sesqui· = 3/2, bessi· = 2/3 (the latter derived from Latin bes = 2/3). I've marked the derived colloquials with a question mark to indicate that those divisions of the day are up for grabs if anyone can suggest more suitable nicknames for them. 

Stock disclaimer: As always, these are suggestions only, not gospel.  They do reflect my own personal preferences, but there are others here who have found them acceptable, at least in some cases.  Many of these are my own unique coinages, but some are the result of collaboration with various members of the forum, where I accepted a suggestion that was much better than anything I could initially come up with. In some cases, there was prior mainstream support for a choice (e.g. shift, watch, vigil, bell). Some were borrowings from fictional sources (e.g. chime, lapse, pause, flicker), where they had been used for periods of time, but possibly different than my assignments here.

1
1/2
1/3
1/4
1/6
1/8
nilcia
day
1,000,000z·jiff
86,400d·second
42,000z·second
1,440d·minute
ᘔ00z·minute
24d·hour
20z·hour
clock
600,000z·jiff
43,200d·second
21,000z·second
720d·minute
500z·minute
12d·hour
10z·hour
shift
400,000z·jiff
28,800d·second
14,800z·second
480d·minute
340z·minute
8·hour
phase
300,000z·jiff
21,600d·second
10,600z·second
360d·minute
260z·minute
6·hour
watch
200,000z·jiff
14,400d·second
8,400z·second
240d·minute
180z·minute
4·hour
vigil
160,000z·jiff
10,800d·second
6,300z·second
180d·minute
130z·minute
3·hour
uncia
dwell
100,000z·jiff
7,200d·second
4,200z·second
120d·minute
ᘔ0z·minute
2·hour
hour
60,000z·jiff
3,600d·second
2,100z·second
60d·minute
50z·minute
1·hour
gong
40,000z·jiff
2,400d·second
1,480z·second
40d·minute
34z·minute
2/3·hour
bell
30,000z·jiff
1,800d·second
1,060z·second
30d·minute
26z·minute
1/2·hour
chime
20,000z·jiff
1,200d·second
840z·second
20d·minute
18z·minute
1/3·hour
segment
16,000z·jiff
900d·second
630z·second
15d·minute
13z·minute
1/4·hour

bicia

breather

10,000z·jiff
600d·second
420z·second
10d·minute
ᘔ·minute

block

6,000z·jiff
300d·second
210z·second
5·minute
quadra·trice?
bessi·block?

4,000z·jiff
200d·second
148z·second
3.3d·minute
3.4z·minute

passage

3,000z·jiff
150d·second
106z·second
2.5d·minute
2.6z·minute
bina·trice?
bessi·passage?

2,000z·jiff
100d·second
84z·second
1.6d·minute
1.8z·minute
sesqui·trice?
semi·passage?

1,600z·jiff
75d·second
63z·second
1.25d·minute
1.3z·minute

tricia

trice

1,000z·jiff
50d·second
42z·second
5/6·minute

lapse

600z·jiff
25d·second
21z·second
quadra·lull?
bessi·lapse?

400z·jiff
16.6d·second
14.8z·second

verse

300z·jiff
12.5d·second
10.6z·second
bina·lull?
bessi·verse?

200z·jiff
8.3d·second
8.4z·second

clip
160z·jiff
6.25d·second
6.3z·second

quadcia

lull

100z·jiff
4.16d·second
4.2z·second

pause

60z·jiff
2.083d·second
2.1z·second
quadra·twinkling?
bessi·pause?

40z·jiff
1.38d·second
1.48z·second

beat

30z·jiff
1.0416d·second
1.06z·second
bina·twinkling?
bessi·beat?

20z·jiff
0.694d·second
0.84z·second
sequi·twinkling?
semi·beat?
16z·jiff
0.52083d·second
0.63z·second

pentcia

twinkling

10z·jiff
0.3472d·second
0.42z·second
tick
(Tim)

6·jiff
0.17361d·second
0.21z·second
quadra·jiff?
bessi·twinkling?

4·jiff
0.115740d·second
0.148z·second
flicker
(⨁timel)

3·jiff
0.086805d·second
0.106z·second
bina·jiff?
bessi·flicker?

2·jiff
0.0578703d·second
0.084z·second
sequi·jiff?
semi·flicker?

1.6z·jiff
0.0434027d·second
0.063z·second
hexcia
jiff
(′timel)

0.02893518d·second
0.042z·second



Note: You can think of the gong (forty minutes, 2/3 hour) as something of a big brother to the nautical bell (thirty minutes, 1/2 hour). Similarly the chime (twenty minutes, 1/3 hour) would be its little brother.

Note: A clip is about the length of a humorous video clip on Vines. 😜  They're usually a lull-and-a-half ... or would that be a LOL-and-an-half?

Note: I did not include sixond for the bessi·beat because that word is a constructed portmanteau, and I am limiting the "colloquial" names in this table to ordinary English words that have been co-opted for these specific new meanings, based on some metaphorical association.  I did not include dogbite for it either because, on top of being effectively a portmanteau in disguise, it was meant as a joke.

Note: The ′timel (the Primel timel),  the Tim (the TGM timel), and the ⨁timel (the Phasic timel) are shown in parentheses for reference, but these are their "formal" names in those particular systems, not "colloquial" nicknames for them.  The generic word timel is an example of a quantitel, and all quantitels are by definition portmanteaus.  Tim, and all of Pendlebury's unit names (with perhaps the exception of the Gee and the Pi), are constructed words mutated from common words or Latin, following Pendlebury's particular style, and not ordinary English words.

A word about branding

I have left off any kind of brand mark designating these as units belonging to any particular metrology (such as Primel or TGM).  My view is that these names are, to a limited degree, "universal" to all such systems, with the proviso that any such system actually be predominantly dozenal, so that these divisions would constitute regular numbers in that metrology's base, yielding exact values for these periods as auxiliary units within the metrology.  In which case, it's fair game to brand any of these units with the symbol for any and every such metrology.  So for instance, 1 ′block = 1 ⊖block = 1 ⊕block = 5 minutes (i.e. a Primel block is the same thing as a TGM block and a Phasic block, and in every case is equivalent to five conventional minutes).  But if the context of discourse is limited to dozenal metrologies like these, then we can omit branding on all of these units, on the assumption that these units would be exactly the same for all of them.

In cases of metrologies in other bases, the situation gets a bit more complex.  In some cases, such as senary base, some units can continue to enjoy universal status.  For instance, the watch and gong would fit perfectly as the unsencia·day and bisencia·day in a senary metrology like Oschkar's Ash-Astrian (so ✶watch = ′watch, ✶gong = ′gong). But  for instance the trisencia·day (= 6.8z minute) doesn't match any of the above units.  In this case, Oschkar chose to call that the ✶block ≠ ′block.  I'm sanguine with recycling any of these words for a different sized unit, as long as it's a size that is relatively close, so that the same metaphor is still apt.  If this happens in a context where the discourse involves not just the senary metrology itself, but also one of the above dozenal ones, it becomes important to qualify any usage with an appropriate brand mark to avoid ambiguity.
Last edited by Kodegadulo on Apr 15 2018, 08:19 PM, edited 4 times in total.
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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Paul Rapoport
Dozens Disciple
Paul Rapoport
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Joined: Dec 26 2012, 01:59 AM

Apr 15 2018, 07:19 PM #127

The trouble with my suggesting further terms is that yours are so good. There's a certain nature or character to the words you've come up with that makes it possible for me to react to them, maybe suggest something close after a reaction, but hard to come up with something on my own that would fit with what's already there. I won't give up completely, however.
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Kodegadulo
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Kodegadulo
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Joined: Sep 10 2011, 11:27 PM

Apr 15 2018, 08:15 PM #128

Paul Rapoport wrote: The trouble with my suggesting further terms is that yours are so good. There's a certain nature or character to the words you've come up with that makes it possible for me to react to them, maybe suggest something close after a reaction, but hard to come up with something on my own that would fit with what's already there. I won't give up completely, however.
Hey, it's been a challenge for me too, and continues to be. But you never know what you may come across. Double sharp's recent suggestion of vigil  (with actual historical provenance for that period of time) came as a pleasant surprise.
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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Double sharp
Dozens Demigod
Double sharp
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Joined: Sep 19 2015, 11:02 AM

Apr 16 2018, 02:19 PM #129

Thank you! I continue to think on and off about possible names for the less dozenal-friendly fractions: so far I've only got the Chinese-derived drum for the undesciaday (one tenth of a day). So far we also have a full binary series that remains distinct for the sixteenth (a whiling) and the thirty-second (a serenade), at least.
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Kodegadulo
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Kodegadulo
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Joined: Sep 10 2011, 11:27 PM

Apr 17 2018, 11:55 AM #130

Double sharp wrote: Thank you! I continue to think on and off about possible names for the less dozenal-friendly fractions: so far I've only got the Chinese-derived drum for the undesciaday (one tenth of a day). So far we also have a full binary series that remains distinct for the sixteenth (a whiling) and the thirty-second (a serenade), at least.
It seems to me that the binary "pacing" you came up with is a fair approximation of a dozenal bina•twinkling or bessi•beat (which I recently lampooned as a "dogbite"). I suppose the dozenal unit could be called a prime•pacing, pendle•pacing, etc, as long as we take care to brand the binary approximant as a luo•pacing, shirushi•pacing, etc, when the two are mentioned in the same context.

My only question is, what allusion prompted you to suggest "pacing" for a period of that size?
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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