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Kodegadulo @ Dec 24 2013, 08:53 AM wrote:Oh, it's a fine unit for human use, in fact I identify it as the ′ell, very close to a customary d-inch ell. As an auxiliary unit scaled-up from a smaller lengthel, it's great (it's the ′biqualengthel in Primel). But it's awkward as a lengthel itself, because the effect of its relative largeness gets cubed to generate the volumel and then the massel.dgoodmaniii @ Dec 24 2013, 04:53 AM wrote:But it doesn't, does it? I mean, he ends up with something a litlte more than a meter, not exactly prohibitively long.You picked the ′unquatimel, otherwise known as the ′twinkling, as your ☼timel. I think that's going to be too big because it's going to lead to too big a ☼lengthel.Yep, SI is officially in to the cubic meter as their volumel. But their massel isn't the tonne, it's still the kilogram. Although I understand there was a point where a meter-tonne-second system was being considered, but it never got off the ground.The mass unit would be huge, but so is that in SI; the liter is deprecated, after all.
Yep, directly analogous to the SI situation. Sunny, this choice is not "wrong", it's a trade off. You get the units you want, and you get to call them your base units, but you lose some of that 1:1 correspondence among base units that TGM and Primel strive for.And he solves that problem by introducing a factor of 10-3, which wouldn't be my choice, but it does work.
There's nothing wrong with keeping the hour and half-hour (half-whiling and quarter-whiling) as useful auxiliary units, but I don't think that's what Sunny said he was doing. He said he was focusing on the biciaday (=decaminute=′block=☼block) as a more useful level of granularity to work with in keeping time than the unciaday. I would have gone one digit further and said that the triciaday (=′trice) is an even better level of granularity. As Sunny points out, it's a nice analog for the minute. A zandred ′trice equal a long-hundred minutes. d minutes equal z ′trice. A half-hour of d minutes is a ′quarter-whiling of z ′trice . An hour of d minutes is a ′half-whiling of z ′trice. Even when you cut the block in half, there's a nice equivalence between a half-dozen ′trice and a half-ten minutes.Sunny is definitely not the first one to think that this time period is rather long; that is, it doesn't really stand in well for the sorts of things we use the hour for. E.g., a good period of time for a class (or at least between breaks in a class), or for a speech, or for a sit-down friendly meal.Why? This is a fine unit of time, a long hundred minutes or a zandred trice:
1 ′pentquatimel = 1 unciaday = z[10-1] day = 2 hours
otherwise known as the "duor" or "bihour". I'm toying with coining the colloquial name "1 whiling" for one of these (as in "whiling away a couple hours").
Not to say that we couldn't adjust to using half-duors when appropriate, the way we use half-hours for sitcoms and NBC Nightly News. (Some people still watch that, I understand.) But a duor is more of a large undertaking than an hour is; it's more a special outing. It's the difference between sitting down for an episode of $weekly_drama and making some popcorn for a full-length movie.
He's not crazy to think it's a bit long, in other words; and his decision to keep the time unit that governs most of our daily interactions is a sound one, even if not the only sound one.
(In fact, that Dozenal Clock scales its digital read-out in ′trice.)
... yes, at about half an ampere, it does that. And at about a third of an ampere, the ′currentel does too! But neither TGM nor Primel can really make much out of that. The way Ampere's force law works, you're really picking a number from thin air. The whole point is that you select an arbitrary amount of force in order to get a currentel that is "conveniently sized" (and preferably to get all the related units to be "conveniently sized" too). SI picked a round power of ten, TGM and Primel picked (different) round powers of dozen. But there is no physical imperative that dictates what that particular value must be.[in TGM] ... the unit of current blends pretty well with the ampere ...
This is just the idea of defining auxiliary units as equivalent amounts (sometimes expressed in scientific notation) of certain base units, and converting all quantities to the base units before doing computations, to simplify the calculations. It's nothing new, really. Your "numbers" aren't just "numbers" they are equivalent amounts of base units. For example 1 ′foot = z ′lengthel. You seem to be taking some shortcuts by omitting the base units, and not showing the dimensional analysis, with units cancelling out and so forth.The idea that a unit, like 'foot', might also be written as '30', and calculated as such, is something that people are not doing much of.
Oh? Says who? Power-prefixes get converted to scientific notation too, when the calculation needs to be done. But are you suggesting that everyone who uses prefixes like kilo- milli- centi- micro- , etc., when they talk about certain quantities at different scales, but don't happen to be working out a computation, is being silly?Using prefix-constructions is considered silly
By whom? Besides yourself, I mean. Given that this is something that most of the world does constantly in SI, and which is pretty common in TGM and similarly-constructed systems (like Primel, which in many ways is basically TGM starting with a different time unit), I think the burden is on the proponent in this case.wendy.krieger @ Dec 25 2013, 08:56 AM wrote: Using prefix-constructions is considered silly
This article on Chinese time units lists:wendy.krieger @ Dec 27 2013, 06:27 AM wrote:Time for 0;016 day is a cé, as used in china in the far east.
Excel also encodes the date as a day count since d (actually, since d[Dec 31, 1899], but who's counting? ) Time of day is encoded as a fractional day.wendy.krieger @ Dec 27 2013, 08:18 AM wrote:The comment about Lotus spreadsheets is that regarding the day and the circle as a unit, allows one to use something like frac() function to drag off the time from a date-time sequence. Unix gives a long count in seconds, and you can't simply look at that data to determine the date or time.
I wouldn't. It was bad enough when I diverged from the Quantitel principle to measure "temperature" in "thermels" when it should have been "temperaturels" or similar. I'm not going to go with something even less evocative of "temperature", like "thremm."wendy.krieger @ Dec 28 2013, 01:06 AM wrote:I would use thremmel for the temperature unit in your scheme.
Not sure what you mean. What major redesign are you talking about?None the same, is this scheme robust enough to survive a major redesign in dimensions? I don't usually have the same analysis in all systems.
By the way, the reason I call it a ′thumb, and not an ′inch, is because etymologically speaking "inch" is just a corruption of "uncia". And I'm thinking that only units that actually are uncias of their base unit should get those sorts of names, otherwise it might be misleading. Oh, I'm not declaring this a hard-and-fast law, if you want to nickname it the ′inch be my guest. But I'll avoid it myself because it's not the ′uncialengthel; it's the ′trilengthel (3 ′Lnℓ), where the ′lengthel is this notebook-line-sized (or barley-kernel-sized) unit. But our customary inch has ancient roots based on the size of a human thumb, and in fact its Roman precursor was known as the pollex, Latin for "thumb", so that's the source for the Primel name.Kodegadulo @ Dec 29 2013, 09:01 PM wrote:One ′thumb equals 0.969752139 inches, but don't worry about all those fiddly digits unless you're a scientist, just use 31/32 inch most of the time
Up to now, I've pretty much glossed over the section of the TGM book about paper sizes, being not much interested in that before. But I took a close look at it for once, and discovered a remarkable thing: The same correspondence exists with Primel units as it does with TGM units, but if anything, it is even more elegant in Primel!dgoodmaniii @ Dec 24 2013, 04:53 AM wrote: After that (a consistently dozenal and coherent system), it's just a matter of what comes together better. In TGM, for example, in addition to things like keeping the hour and the five-minute block, the unit of current blends pretty well with the ampere, and the standard TGM paper sizes are almost identical to standard SI paper sizes (so close, in fact, that a sheet of A4 is a pretty accurate Grafut rule).
Shaving off that (less than a) millimeter and a half is an exercise in futility. Other systems match up in other ways, of course, which I'll leave their proponents to explain elsewhere. (The TGM match-ups are explained more fully in the TGM book, of course.)TGM (Gf-1) = 1 Gf = 295.6829 mm ~ A4 = 297 mm
How so? The ell is, according to this thread, 1182.32 mllimeters; but A0 paper is 1189 millimeters. That's nearly 7 millimeters off; which isn't too bad, given that Gf+3 is 1182.73 mm, closer but only marginally so. Still, split that in half twice: 295.58 mm, with A4 being 297. Gf-1 is 295.68 mm; again, closer, even if only marginally so. The shorter side would start at 836.02 mm, as opposed to A0's 841 mm; at A4 size, 209.005, basically 209, the same as Gf-1.Kodegadulo @ Dec 30 2013, 09:07 AM wrote: Up to now, I've pretty much glossed over the section of the TGM book about paper sizes, being not much interested in that before. But I took a close look at it for once, and discovered a remarkable thing: The same correspondence exists with Primel units as it does with TGM units, but if anything, it is even more elegant in Primel!