Re: Current Situation

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Re: Current Situation

Kodegadulo
Obsessive poster
Kodegadulo
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Joined: Sep 10 2011, 11:27 PM

Feb 10 2018, 02:17 PM #1

In a way, this question is a continuation of this one that Double sharp put out nearly a year ago. The immediate cause of that situation is no longer a member of this forum, so this question seems moot. Nevertheless some of us started taking steps (again) to make sure that even if this place continued to degenerate into flamewars, those of us of like minds at least could still continue collaborating fruitfully ... somewhere else.

From the DGW Spreadsheet thread:
Kodegadulo @ Feb 10 2018, 02:13 PM wrote:Oschkar posted a question here yesterday asking whether I had a story yet for the units of photometry ... but he later deleted his post, telling me offline that he thought we were just going to switch to a more modern channel for collaborating. This merits some branching discussions...
I dunno, I'd like to be an optimist, and hold out hope that this place may still be viable. Do any of the rest of the membership still share that hope?
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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Double sharp
Dozens Demigod
Double sharp
Dozens Demigod
Joined: Sep 19 2015, 11:02 AM

Feb 10 2018, 03:21 PM #2

Kodegadulo @ Feb 10 2018, 02:17 PM wrote: I dunno, I'd like to be an optimist, and hold out hope that this place may still be viable. Do any of the rest of the membership still share that hope?
I certainly do, and since I originally raised the question, I hope that counts for something! ;) We have gotten a lot of good work out here even in the past few months. It really does seem that when we're not forced to spend our limited time here defending our ideas against the same old charges we can get something new and interesting out. Now that the source of most of these charges is gone, I'm sure we can continue to extend and build up our systems.

It would be a shame if this place had to be given up, since the alternative that you invited us to is not open for viewing to outsiders. I suppose we could discuss there and post finished products here, but I think part of the fun and interest for people just getting into this is the tale of how these ideas came about, which might stimulate them into thinking over similar lines.
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Kodegadulo
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Kodegadulo
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Joined: Sep 10 2011, 11:27 PM

Feb 10 2018, 04:08 PM #3

Double sharp @ Feb 10 2018, 03:21 PM wrote: It would be a shame if this place had to be given up, since the alternative that you invited us to is not open for viewing to outsiders. I suppose we could discuss there and post finished products here, but I think part of the fun and interest for people just getting into this is the tale of how these ideas came about, which might stimulate them into thinking over similar lines.
Agreed, considering also that that alternative won't typeset formulas, and would have to rely on pointing to shared resources like Google Sheets or Docs for any significant presentation. That said, it remains to be seen what the Tapatalk future holds for us here...
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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Kodegadulo
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Kodegadulo
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Joined: Sep 10 2011, 11:27 PM

Feb 10 2018, 07:18 PM #4

Incidentally, it's only after coming up for air that I've even noticed that DS and Oschkar never came up with avatars for themselves here (that could theoretically be transferred elsewhere, at need, for the sake of continuity). But I suppose that could be rectified now fairly easily.

The solution to that for DS should be fairly obvious I think: An image derived, say, from Unicode Character 'MUSICAL SYMBOL DOUBLE SHARP' (U+1D12Ax) 𝄪, image:

Or maybe just two ordinary musical sharps, juxtaposed in some artful way. I suspect we've discussed this before, as it seems vaguely familiar...

As for Oschkar, might take a little thought... Something with the diamond shape you used for Ashtrian?

Up to you guys, of course. :) If your stance is that you wish to assert your right to publicly eschew all frivolous ornamentation, and maintain an Amish-like plainness and simplicity, then I for one will vigorously defend that right. :D

EDIT: Oh of course, it was in your intro thread:
Treisaran @ Sep 25 2015, 09:58 AM wrote:Welcome, ♯♯. :)
Although unfortunately Treisaran's post (like so many others) has been shredded by the Unicode/Western encoding debacle that InvisionFree imposed on us since 1200z, and Treisaran doesn't seem to be around any more to fix it. I had to forcibly convert this quote to Western encoding to get it to show properly.
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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Kodegadulo
Obsessive poster
Kodegadulo
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Joined: Sep 10 2011, 11:27 PM

Feb 11 2018, 08:19 PM #5

So, no other members, past or present, holding any hope that this forum is still a going concern...?
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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Shaun
Dozens Disciple
Shaun
Dozens Disciple
Joined: Aug 2 2005, 04:09 PM

Feb 11 2018, 09:26 PM #6

52 views so far.

Maybe those members who have looked at this topic are not as pessimistic about the future of the forum as you appear to be.

Now that hostilities have ceased I expect to see some of those members returning who were put off by the fighting. And of course some of those 52 may well have been guests.

Is there some special reason for asking the question in the first place? Your own posts suggest that the original reason is probably no longer applicable. I quote:

"In a way, this question is a continuation of this one that Double sharp put out nearly a year ago. The immediate cause of that situation is no longer a member of this forum, ....
Nevertheless some of us started taking steps (again) to make sure that even if this place continued to degenerate into flamewars, those of us of like minds at least could still continue collaborating fruitfully ... somewhere else."

I see no reason why 'this place' should 'degenerate into flamewars'.  We have parted the combatants. This forum is a going concern as long as there are people interested in dozenals.

If you wish to set up a new site for yourself and your friends please do; you could have done that ages ago to develop your ideas further without any interruption. It does not mean you three have to leave this forum while you have valuable ideas to contribute. Also with the site changing to Tapatalk we are hoping for an improvement in presentation and efficiency that all will find acceptable.
I use the following conventions for dozenal numbers in my posts.

* prefixes a dozenal number, e.g. *50 = 60.
The apostrophe (') is used as a dozenal point, e.g. 0'6 = 0.5.
T and E stand for ten and eleven respectively.
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Kodegadulo
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Kodegadulo
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Joined: Sep 10 2011, 11:27 PM

Feb 11 2018, 10:07 PM #7

Well the possibility of attracting the types of people who simply want to troll is always there. There have been a number here recently who seem to just want to spar.

But I'm not so much pessimistic as hopeful but waiting to see. At the moment though it's just been awful quiet. No doubt many of the more reasonable members were put off by the recent flaming, and they just need a little time. Or they just need some interesting new topics to pop up, in a genial atmosphere...

As for another channel for communicating, it doesn't need to be mutually exclusive. Some folks just prefer to PM to collaborate sometimes... and well, there are far better channels for that than the rather awkward PM system here.
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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Shaun
Dozens Disciple
Shaun
Dozens Disciple
Joined: Aug 2 2005, 04:09 PM

Feb 12 2018, 06:43 AM #8

Kodegadulo @ Feb 11 2018, 10:07 PM wrote:Well the possibility of attracting the types of people who simply want to troll is always there.
Hardly a reason for keeping going!
We're here to provide information for those interested in dozenals. Trolls come and go, usually propelled on their way.
No fresh news from Tapatalk. i am keeping in touch with them.
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icarus
Dozens Demigod
icarus
Dozens Demigod
Joined: Apr 11 2006, 12:29 PM

Feb 12 2018, 08:43 PM #9

The forum is what we make of it. It's as good or bad as we want it to be. There is a lot of good discussion here. It will be this way wherever you go; no place is perfect.

Suppose we "lock it down" and only permit arguments we like. Then we get an echo chamber and that's pretty boring. Also suppose we let anyone in. Then we get adverts for enhancements and other wonderful things. Only permitting discussion that supports our views weakens what we are discussing.

I'd like this forum to be as free as it can be. I think that makes for the best possible forum, short of our being in some lockdown paradise. What people do off this forum is their business.

Say what you want about those recently ushered out. I did enjoy her original thoughts. I did not enjoy the tussles and baiting, the cryptic and affected presentation of items that were insisted to be standard practice somewhere; the stating that maths and science were wrong - crankiness. These things bring dispersion upon dozenalists. Ultimately this is a dozenal forum. Want a twelfty forum? Plenty of space on the internet. We put up with it for many years and I reprieved it three times myself. At the end of the day we have to move on.

I live in St. Louis, "the most dangerous city in America." Bullshit. This is a great town. It has its problems, everyone knows, but any place has problems. It's what I make of it. I live, work, play, and pray here. It's my kids' and wife's hometown. I have a gingerbread house 400 steps from my office and walk everywhere I need to be. I am a self-made man; I am in full control of where I am. Sure there are things I do not like about St. Louis, just as there are things I don't like about Tuscany, Chicago, or Pensacola Beach. It's all what I make of it. At the end of the day, if I don't like how it is here, I could have moved to Tuscany, back to Chicago, or to Pensacola Beach, or a number of other places. Working for myself, I can live anywhere I want (ultimately we all work for ourselves. Why else work?) I could be working beachside ("working" is the problem with "beachside"). It's my choice to be here (a complex one involving other people in this case) and since I have chosen such, I am going to make the very best of it. It would be perfect if somehow the sunny beach could be down the road (it was 250 million years ago). But even in Pensacola Beach, it gets down to 19 degrees, and short of that, it still is gloomy winter during the winter. There is trouble in Tuscany too, dumps and wastewater treatment plants and malls-it's not all vineyards, castles, and mountaintop villages. But if you were to go to Tuscany and lament all the dumps and waterworks, you'd miss out on la bella vita. That would be sad. No place is perfect. Once I accept no place is perfect and am working with what I have, it becomes magnificent and there is no place I'd rather be. My whole life is here.

The forum is what you make of it. It will be great if you want to make it that way; otherwise it will flounder. Nothing lasts forever and it would be sad. Change happens and will happen again. So my suggestion is to make the place the kind of place you want to be, and it will tend toward that desire.
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Kodegadulo
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Kodegadulo
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Joined: Sep 10 2011, 11:27 PM

Feb 12 2018, 09:44 PM #10

Assuming default decimal [d]:
icarus @ Feb 12 2018, 08:43 PM wrote: But even in Pensacola Beach, it gets down to 19 degrees,...
I'm assuming you mean Fahrenheit (and decimal). That would be about -7°C to our metric friends around the world. Quite cold indeed, for a subtropical place like Florida. Par for the course up here, of course. But it really gets that cold down there? Wow, then you're right, no place is perfect...
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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wendy.krieger
Dozens Demigod
wendy.krieger
Dozens Demigod
Joined: Jul 11 2012, 09:19 AM

Mar 1 2018, 08:02 AM #11

I do not see any reason for this place to degenerate to flame wars either. 

None the same, I was retired as an invalid by the Chief Medical Officer (CMO).  I am told this is because of mental issues.  One of them is a style of autism.  The main effect is that i can't really create a 'larger picture' from the texts.  For example, I can not see this 'war' that is supposedly going on here.  I am probably saying things that might incite people, but unless I am made aware of it at the level of a specific example, I have no way of knowing what is going on.

Autism is in a sense, where if one presented a person with a large 'L' made out of small 'S' symbols, the autistic person might not see the 'L' and only see the S's that make it.  A different form is they would only see the L and not that it is made of S's.  This occurs at all sorts of levels: some people are unable to abstract sentences past what is written, and rely entirely on other people's opinions to determine that a parody has occured, or the like. 

I spent many years on a help desk, and there it serves well to deal with the specific question asked, and then to construct an impression of what actually happened in the system.  At no point do i look or even see the intents of the questioner, although I do know in one case, I was asked about the underpreformance of a different staff member in the client department, and at another event, a criminal event that happened elsewhere.  I was told these after the event.

A lot of mathematicians and phd people follow me on facebook, quora etc.  In the main, I have no problems with mathematicians.  What happens is that mathematics as taught in the schools, and the various works produced, gloss over the issues like bases and polytopes.  It's really only when you sit down and try to convert something like 'the higher arithmetic' into something about bases that it becomes a fruitless task.

The level of mathematics needed in the university, to express bases, is simply to note that a need to fill the columns with digits as decimal does.  I followed this thinking too, until i found alternating arithmetic, and then the word 'digit' degenerates into distinct meanings with different places.  Decimal uses digital arithmetic at base level.  Twelfty uses digital arithmetic at a sub-base level.  Dozenal is decimal with extra digits. 

I know this is not a twelfty-forum.  It is a dozenal forum.  The COF system is the twelfty TIOF converted to dozenal.  I brought across all that is good in tiof.  Twelfty is largely now restricted to places where it is appropriate.  But twelfty is  a mode of thought as much as chinese is to Double Sharp, and as he quotes his experiences with chinese, so do i with twelfty.  But twelfty is not dozenal, even if the high place is 12.  We can get away with teenty, because we're not pretending that 100 = 10 * 10.

I am sorry if people find there is some war or fued going on.  I just don't see it.  If hostile positions are coming from my position, I don't see it.  But if people point things out at a post-level, then i have a chance of dealing with it.  But for the most part, I will try to answer all issues, which often can drag things off-topic.  I'm working on that too.
Twelfty is 120 dec, as 12 decades. V is teen, the '10' digit, E is elef, the '11' digit. A place is occupied by two staves (digits).
Digits group into 2's and 4's, and . , are comma points, : is the radix.
Numbers writen with a single point, in twelfty, like 5.3, means 5 dozen and 3. It is common to push 63 into 5.3 and viki verka.
Exponents (in dec): E = 10^x, Dx=12^x, H=120^x, regardless of base the numbers are in.
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