New forum section on metaphysical numbers.

richard.chasen
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10:18 PM - Aug 06, 2018 #1

    I want to see a forum or sub-forum for talk about spiritual association associated with numbers including dozenal. 

I know that the majority of administrators here consider this to be a nonsense topic, but at least several persons I've spoken with here believe on this topic. It could be labeled "supposed metaphysical" or something similar. 

Persons here that believe that numbers have metaphysical attributes have with experimentation on number meanings come up with nearly identical results as to the metaphysical attributes of specific numbers. Its sad that persons with such beliefs are being driven away from our group. 

   If there is any truth to metaphysical number beliefs (and I believe that there are) the reasons why would be pure speculation. 

  I will say this: If numbers did have different meanings for each number in some advanced civilization's language there would be many more concepts than what are defined in an English dictionary, thus the English language would be like a dog's barking compared to such an advanced language. I imagine that in such a language each prime number would be a sort of root concept, and there are more known prime numbers than there are words in the English dictionary. And when you add roots, ratios, multiples, etc these concepts increase exponentially. 
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Kodegadulo
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4:50 AM - Aug 07, 2018 #2

richard.chasen wrote: I imagine that in such a language each prime number would be a sort of root concept, and there are more known prime numbers than there are words in the English dictionary. And when you add roots, ratios, multiples, etc these concepts increase exponentially. 
In fact, there are an infinite number of primes. Euclid proved this theorem more than 2300d = more than 1400z years ago. There have been additional proofs since then.

Any human language is by necessity finite. There are no infinitely long dictionaries. Vocabularies may grow with time, but they still remain finite at all times.

Moreover, languages are arbitrary encodings. An arbitrary sequence of symbols and/or phonemes is made to stand for some concept, but a different language assigns that concept a completely different sequence, equally as arbitrary.

But the chief significance of numbers is simply their magnitudes. The chief significance of prime numbers is simply that they are, in fact, prime. That's sigificance enough. Ascribing numbers some spurious arbitrary additional meaning rather diminishes and obscures their mathematical significance.

So equating a language to numbers, prime or not, Is not particularly apt. Unless one sorts the words of a language by some criteria (itself arbitrary), and then just assigns each a position in the ordering. But that is still just a code.

Even if we imagine superhuman intelligences, be they some alien species more advanced than ourselves, or be they our own descendants as modified by evolution or technology, such intelligences would still be finite. Mind you, we as yet have no evidence that any such superhuman intelligences exist. At best, we have not ruled them out.
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richard.chasen
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6:30 PM - Aug 07, 2018 #3

Kodegadulo wrote:
richard.chasen wrote: I imagine that in such a language each prime number would be a sort of root concept, and there are more known prime numbers than there are words in the English dictionary. And when you add roots, ratios, multiples, etc these concepts increase exponentially. 


But the chief significance of numbers is simply their magnitudes. The chief significance of prime numbers is simply that they are, in fact, prime. That's sigificance enough. Ascribing numbers some spurious arbitrary additional meaning rather diminishes and obscures their mathematical significance.

So equating a language to numbers, prime or not, Is not particularly apt. Unless one sorts the words of a language by some criteria (itself arbitrary), and then just assigns each a position in the ordering. But that is still just a code.

Even if we imagine superhuman intelligences, be they some alien species more advanced than ourselves, or be they our own descendants as modified by evolution or technology, such intelligences would still be finite.
If we had a sub-forum on this topic people's ideas would be either convergent or divergent. Truth tends to converge while un-truths tend to diverge. I have noted convergence to my assignment of number meanings in past conversations with total strangers on this website.

Numbers are more than just magnitude. Magnitude is a decimal mindset that is focused on measurement. Our base ten culture has developed a science around the idea of measurements. A different intelligence or science based on the use of base twelve is in my opinion not only possible but observed. 

And I agree that a numeric language is not infinite intelligence and that it's just a code. I speculate that the sun is the source of this advanced but finite intelligence. I think intelligence can just as well occupy an animal body as some mass or energy that can exist on the sun. If the ratio of mass to intelligence is about the same through the solar system than this postulated language compared to English is about the same ratio as the size of the sun compared to Earth. And the sun clearly influences the Earth in other known ways. And the sun is in turn influenced by the galaxy. 

My method of assigning meaning to numbers is by observation based on careful date and time journal records by a person who is unaware of what observations that will be taking place several years into the future, but being aware that there will be observations. For example most people are unaware of the fact that an event happening today is the square root of 7 years (about 966 days) since a related important event. 
I have been observing number cycles of my life for the past 20 years since I began keeping number counts in base twelve in 1999. However I lost my journal data from 1991 to 2013. 
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Kodegadulo
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7:28 PM - Aug 07, 2018 #4

I think the word you are looking for is not "convergence", but confirmation bias.
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richard.chasen
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7:47 PM - Aug 07, 2018 #5

Kodegadulo wrote: I think the word you are looking for is not "convergence", but confirmation bias.
No. When multiple observers observe similar data its convergence. 
If for example the number 2 was associated with one thing for one observer and the same thing for a second observer that would be convergence and an indication that the premise of a pattern is true. 

If for example the number 2 was associated with one thing for one observer and another thing for a second observer that would be divergence and an indication that the premise of a pattern is false. 
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Kodegadulo
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10:19 PM - Aug 07, 2018 #6

All that such "convergences" would suggest is that some people may happen to have been exposed to the same fairy tales at some point in their lives, and thereafter only noticed the cases that seemed to corroborate those fairy tales, but none of the cases that contradicted them. That is confirmation bias.

Establishing facts scientifically is a lot harder that just correlating people's intuitions. Humans tend to ascribe far too much significance to coincidences. But in a random set of data, coincidences are quite common. Far more common than general human intuition would expect. There was no selection pressure during our evolution for human intuition to be accurate, that is, in accordance with reality on average. There was, in fact, considerable pressure for human pattern-seeking to be overactive, such that it gives many false positives, so long as false negatives are reduced. If you think that the rustling in the grass behind you is a tiger, and you run away, but it turns out it is only the wind, you are only mildly inconvenienced. If you think that the rustling in the grass behind you is only the wind, but it's actually a tiger, you are dinner -- and your genes are removed from the population.

But I've made that point before, from time to time. 🙂
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richard.chasen
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7:36 PM - Aug 08, 2018 #7

What is very obvious is that you think number correlations and personalities are nonsense. And you are entitled to your belief. I believe that numbers have meaning in some language that affects our planet. And I'm entitled to that belief. If other persons who like base twelve math share my beliefs we should be allowed to have a forum. 

When I talk about personalities of numbers this is purely mathematical. For example multiples of 1/7 have the same sequence of digits in both base ten and in base twelve. The only thing you might object about this is calling this "personality" .

When I talk about number meaning and correlation I use only observed examples that I have neither heard or read anywhere else. For example the dozen's number 25 is a prime number (29 decimal). I have noticed over time that when an event is a multiple of 25 days there tends to be rearranging relative to that event. If a person kept records of hourly and daily activities over the course of a year and the same 25 day pattern emerged when reviewing the journals that would be evidence. 

Here is an experiment: My suggestion for a new section would be a form of rearrangement. It occurred on a known date. I don't know what date the sections were organized or when Dozensonline began. Count the days both from when this forum was established and from when the sections were organized to look for the 25 day pattern. This has a 1:7  chance of a random hit. (First/last day of 2 different cycles)

Your statements that I select coincidence and/or confirmation bias are almost a direct insult, but given your beliefs that my premise is impossible I can understand those comments. My methods are as close as possible to scientific method as possible given my resources. I do sometimes tend to assign a similar meaning to multiple numbers which indicates error. 

I also note that changing an atom's atomic number changes its element. However so far I only have vague associations with rearranging and element 25 (Copper). I had once done a number sequence for 25 and a friend submitted it to some number sequence site. I think it was OCIS or a similar name. But I lost the records and can't recall the sequence. In the sequence in base 25 the digits after the dot had every number from 1-25 in an unusual order. 
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Kodegadulo
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10:07 PM - Aug 08, 2018 #8

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, no matter how improbable or unsupported. But no one is entitled to their own facts.

richard.chasen wrote:When I talk about personalities of numbers this is purely mathematical. For example multiples of 1/7 have the same sequence of digits in both base ten and in base twelve. The only thing you might object about this is calling this "personality" .
I will use underscores (rather than the customary overlines) to indicate repeating digits:

The multiples of 1/7 in base ten are:

1/7 = 0.142857d
2/7 = 0.285714d
3/7 = 0.428571d
4/7 = 0.571428d
5/7 = 0.714285d
6/7 = 0.857142d

In base twelve they are:

1/7 = 0.186ᘔ35z
2/7 = 0.35186ᘔz
3/7 = 0.5186ᘔ3z
4/7 = 0.6ᘔ3518z
5/7 = 0.86ᘔ351z
6/7 = 0.ᘔ35186z

So the sequence of digits in base ten is most definitely not the same as the sequence in base twelve.

Or did you just mean that, within either one of these bases, the multiples repeat the same cycle of digits, just picking up the cycle at different points for each multiple? This is hardly unique to the reciprocal of 7 in either of these two bases. There are an infinite number of such repeating cycles, for different prime reciprocals in different bases.

In any case, it's hardly something that warrants assigning a fanciful new meaning to the word "personality", except in the most figurative sense.
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icarus
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1:50 AM - Aug 09, 2018 #9

Seven is a long prime in both bases 10 and 12. It's not so bad in hexadecimal, since 16 is square. Of course, in tetradecimal it's a groovy 0.2. I can see "personality" used poetically, perhaps.
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Kodegadulo
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4:09 AM - Aug 09, 2018 #10

richard.chasen wrote: ... [ presumed correlations of the number 25z with the concept of "rearrangement" ] ...

... I had once done a number sequence for 25 and a friend submitted it to some number sequence site. I think it was OCIS or a similar name. But I lost the records and can't recall the sequence. In the sequence in base 25 the digits after the dot had every number from 1-25 in an unusual order. 
So let's play around a little with base 25z (dozenally-encoded base twenzy-five, which uses superdigits 00z through 24z). Let's look at the reciprocals of the first few primes:

(01/02)25z = (00.14)25z 
(01/03)25z = (00.09'17)25z 
(01/05)25z = (00.04'20)25z 
(01/07)25z = (00.04')25z 
(01/0Ɛ)25z = (00.02'16'11'05'07'22'0ᘔ'13'1Ɛ'19)25z 
(01/11)25z = (00.02'06'18)25z 
(01/15)25z = (00.01'18'11'16'1ᘔ'05'03'0Ɛ'23'08'13'0ᘔ'06'1Ɛ'21'15')25z 
(01/17)25z = (00.01'13'07'16'09'04'14'1ᘔ'21'23'11'19'0ᘔ'17'20'10'06'03)25z 
(01/1Ɛ)25z = (00.01'07'14'0Ɛ'0ᘔ'02'13'03'1ᘔ'18'05)25z 
(01/25)25z = (00.01)25z 
(01/01'02)25z = (00.00'23'03'19'12'24'01'21'07'12)25z 
(01/01'08)25z = (00.00'1ᘔ'19'04'18'0ᘔ'24'06'07'20'08'16)25z 
(01/01'10)25z = (00.00'18'12'20'19'22'21'11'10'19'06'0ᘔ'15'17'1Ɛ'09'22'04'23'14'24'08'12'04'07'02'03'13'14'07'1ᘔ'16'0Ɛ'09'05'17'02'20'01'10)25z 

So finally, with the reciprocal for (01'10)25z = 35z = 41d, we get a repeating digit cycle 34z=40d superdigits long. That's the first one which is longer than the number of available unique superdigits. That guarantees that every superdigit will be represented at least once in the sequence. But note that the superdigits are in an arbitrary-seeming order.

But none of these properties are particularly exclusive to this case.  Notice the general trend of all these repeating fractions, in all bases, to use digits in arbitrarily "rearranged" order. No matter what base we pick, as we increase the size of the denominator, it's guaranteed that we'll eventually find some repeating fraction containing every digit of the base.  We can find that in base ten, in the reciprocal for 19d = 17z:

(1/19)d = 0.052631578947368421

And in dozenal, in the reciprocal for 17d = 15z:

(1/15)z = 0.08579214Ɛ36429ᘔ7z

So I conclude that the notion of the number 25z being the metaphysical patron saint of "rearrangement" must be something that you formulated out of thin air, completely by accident, and then sought only confirming evidence for that, never exerting the due dilligence to seek evidence that might falsify your conclusion.

As for a cycle of 25z = 29d days having some ineffable influence on people, note that people have been keen observers of the moon since prehistoric times. The length of the synodic month is approximately 25.61z = 29.53d days. If that has some sort of influence on the human psyche, it likely has more to do with the behavior of the moon, and perhaps the overall behavior of nocturnal species in the environment as they react to the differing amounts of light reflected by the moon as it goes through its phases, than with any kind of magical property of the number 25z itself.
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Shaun
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8:31 AM - Aug 09, 2018 #11

richard.chasen wrote: What is very obvious is that you think number correlations and personalities are nonsense. And you are entitled to your belief. I believe that numbers have meaning in some language that affects our planet. And I'm entitled to that belief. If other persons who like base twelve math share my beliefs we should be allowed to have a forum. 

When I talk about personalities of numbers this is purely mathematical. For example multiples of 1/7 have the same sequence of digits in both base ten and in base twelve. The only thing you might object about this is calling this "personality" .
You might like to consider the multiplicity of such patterns in every and any base. Here is a little study I made some years ago.
reciprocals.pdf (99.05 KiB)
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Kodegadulo
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10:18 AM - Aug 09, 2018 #12

Kodegadulo wrote:No matter what base we pick, as we increase the size of the denominator, it's guaranteed that we'll eventually find some repeating fraction containing every digit of the base.  We can find that in base ten, in the reciprocal for 19d = 17z:

(1/19)d = 0.052631578947368421d

And in dozenal, in the reciprocal for 17d = 15z:

(1/15)z = 0.08579214Ɛ36429ᘔ7z
Actually, 17d = 15z is also the first case in decimal too (I just missed it):

(1/17)d = 0.0588235294117647d

So I stand corrected.  But note that in prime base eleven, we get coverage for all its digits with the very next prime, 12Ɛ = 11z = 13d:

(1/12)Ɛ = 0.093425ᘔ17685Ɛ
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Kodegadulo
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12:23 PM - Aug 09, 2018 #13

Shaun wrote: You might like to consider the multiplicity of such patterns in every and any base. Here is a little study I made some years ago.
Good stuff! Especially that summary table describing the patten of periods across primes and across bases.

See, actual mathematics is so much more interesting than vague metaphysical numerology, because whatever results and theorems we can discover can be demonstrated to others immediately, and often can be rigorously proven, so that they are beyond any doubt. Anyone can work through the math and demonstrate the results for themselves. No tedious years of journalling just to hunt for occasional coincidences that we might fool ourselves into believing constitute "correlations".
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richard.chasen
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7:52 PM - Aug 09, 2018 #14

Kodegadulo wrote:
Shaun wrote: You might like to consider the multiplicity of such patterns in every and any base. Here is a little study I made some years ago.
Good stuff! Especially that summary table describing the patten of periods across primes and across bases.

See, actual mathematics is so much more interesting than vague metaphysical numerology, because whatever results and theorems we can discover can be demonstrated to others immediately, and often can be rigorously proven, so that they are beyond any doubt. Anyone can work through the math and demonstrate the results for themselves. No tedious years of journalling just to hunt for occasional coincidences that we might fool ourselves into believing constitute "correlations".
Yes the mathematics is quite nice. The patterns can be understood by about 20% of humans. As for the metaphysical that I've studied for 29 years, it would take humanity over 1000 years to understand the metaphysical or subconscious patterns and interrelationships of numbers that appear to influence humanity. Unlike gross years ago most people living today have access to inexpensive pencil & scrap paper, electronic scientific calculators, and computers. So far I have only tiny pieces and fragments. But even having that gives me advantages worth the hour a day I spend on this. (Prior to 1960 it would take me at least 48 hours a day to do what I do)
It appears that the entire universe conforms to patterns of a very complex math based code. Humans will have to have learned this before we try to communicate with some other advanced extraterrestrial species. I don't think humans will be able to travel the stars in the next 30,000 years. 
I can describe what this code entails. Its like this super-complex mechanical watch that I understand as well as my cat understands how to program in Excel. 
And about the 25z day cycles being consistent with lunar periods. I said multiples of 25z days. While lunar periods would well explain 1, 2, or even 3 times 25z days. I have observed this pattern with cycles of days in excess of 25z squared days. I have also observed different patterns of thinking associated with different number focus. 
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Kodegadulo
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10:54 PM - Aug 09, 2018 #15

This is primarily a math forum.  Let's have more hyperbolae, and less hyperbole, please.

If you are claiming to be in possession of superior knowledge of some arcane new form of mathematics, then you should be able to provide us all with a practical demonstration which we could then independently confirm.  Or refute.  Real math works like that.

I am more sanguine about what people might be capable of understanding of mathematics, especially if we all try to do a better job making it more palatable and approachable, and less wrapped up in cryptic symbology and the mystique of the "mathematical genius".
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richard.chasen
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7:41 PM - Aug 10, 2018 #16

Kodegadulo wrote: If you are claiming to be in possession of superior knowledge of some arcane new form of mathematics, then you should be able to provide us all with a practical demonstration which we could then independently confirm.  Or refute.  Real math works like that.
I accept your challenge! 
My work is a complete re-working of astrology and biorhythms based on careful observations, mathematics, and an understanding/discovery of the mechanisms of astrology that don't exist in any texts. 
The way to test my work is rather simple. 
1. Know the date and time of any event. The most important dates in a person's life usually include the dates of birth and of conception. An event that happens today in your life is best to use for control. In an average person's life some notable event will happen on average every 1-3 months. 
2. Count the first 24 hours of the event as day #1 and 24-48 hours as day # 2, etc. 
3. Simply count the days and take the prime factors of the count. Record what happens each day especially on the hour of the event. If you want to make the experiment blind I can write what one should expect in the first few dozen days relative to the event where the observer won't see it until after his observations.  (it also works for years, but the observation cycles are 265z times as long and events that impact several years are much less common. 
4. For events that happened more than 100 days ago. A code can be applied to change and improve the event on the 1st day of the cycle. If you want an event to go well the first seconds, minutes, and hours will affect the future of the event. 
5. It appears that square roots of numbers have a similar meaning as the numbers themselves. Thus instead of waiting for the 3rd or 5th day the square root moments happen sooner. 

By the way: In studying and meditating on number counts in base twelve with prime factors using a calculator program for 20 years. I know all the prime factors up to 121z, about half of the prime factors to 3 gross, and know most of the primes to 1000z. For me the dozenal multiplication chart is obsolete. 
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Kodegadulo
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11:07 AM - Aug 11, 2018 #17

Astrology.
Biorhythms.
Numerology.

Seriously?

What an extravagant program of minute, and prolonged, self-observation you are proposing people undertake!  Life is too short as it is.  Anyone willing to commit to such a task, would naturally have an immense stake in not having it prove in the end to have been a complete waste of time.  In other words, a perfect setup for confirmation bias.  In fact, such individuals, desperate to validate that their self-imposed burden was actually meaningful, might attempt to puff up their commitment as a badge of authority, and try to leverage that to engage in recruitment...

Meanwhile, real math findings can be demonstrated. Immediately. By anyone. Which means they can be confirmed (or if necessary, refuted), by anyone. Math theorems do not stand or fall on the credentials of the people who happen to work them out first. They do not require appeals to authority to be convincing. They stand or fall on their own merits. 

Besides, I think we have better models of how to be profitably obsessed with numbers.

A conjecture both deep and profound
Asserts that all circles are round.
     In a paper by Erdős,
     Written in Kurdish,
A counter-example is found.
 😉
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richard.chasen
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7:20 PM - Aug 13, 2018 #18

Kodegadulo wrote: Astrology.
Biorhythms.
Numerology.

Seriously?

What an extravagant program of minute, and prolonged, self-observation you are proposing people undertake!  Life is too short as it is.  Anyone willing to commit to such a task, would naturally have an immense stake in not having it prove in the end to have been a complete waste of time. 

In other words, a perfect setup for confirmation bias.  
Your point of confirmation bias is valid. This is why I have to be very careful and very disciplined to avoid doing that given my 20 years of time investment. I wouldn't expect any person to fully use Philosophical mathematics any more than I would expect my cat to write macros in Excel for me. The required intelligence just isn't there. 

As for the time required for my suggestions I have Excel programs for the complex stuff. But what I suggested was simply to keep a journal and a simple count of days which would involve 5 minutes a month. 

I call my work Philosophical Mathematics. Yes there are multiple arcane disciplines that loosely touch on Philosophical mathematics. The list of these disciplines includes: Astrology, Biorhythms, Numerology, Pyramid Power, Sacred Geometry, Masonic "secret" cycles associated with 7s, etc. None of these disciplines are based on Philosophical mathematics (with the exception of Masonic focus on the number 7) or any other form of Theoretical or Applied mathematics and are thus all flawed. Pythagoras (a genius) is the best known Philosophical mathematician and the only one other than myself that I can think of. I'm not as intelligent as Pythagoras was, but I own electronic math devices including scientific calculators and a computer. 

I can easily list the reasons each of my listed arcane disciplines is flawed and I can also extract truths that these disciplines have stumbled upon. 

Astrology is nothing more than a complex calendar with limited Philosophical math mixed in with a bunch of nonsense. I was an astrologer in 1990-1992. My interest in dozens (1994-1995) was an outgrowth of astrology and a conversation with someone who explained that Atlantis used dozens math in their sacred geometry. 
Biorhythms are accurate, time consuming and very incomplete. Assuming the Philosophical Math principle behind biorhythms is true it should apply to all integers not just 24z (4 x 7) and 29z 3 x B). I don't have the time to invest in Biorhythms when simply counting days is easier and just as effective. 
Sacred Geometry is nothing except arrangements based on math with philosophical intentions. 

I have learned to use Philosophical math well enough to produce life advantages since 1999. I have needed these advantages to survive against an otherwise overwhelming enemy. I predict that Philosophical mathematics will be more commonly used as humanity evolves above drug addictions and superstitions. 

Simply learning to be aware of the math patterns in one's life gives one a considerable advantage in life over the ignorant and drug addicted masses. Even if the whole concept of Philosophical mathematics were false simply having a better sense of WHEN you are would improve your choices of timing enough to give an advantage. But I have observed that the concepts of Philosophical mathematics to be true more often than chance would predict. 
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Kodegadulo
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10:20 PM - Aug 13, 2018 #19

Until such time as your assertions can actually be demonstrated, and reproduced by others, they remain nothing but assertions. My opinion is that they are, in fact, nothing but superstitions of your own. You appear to have arrived at them by a route typical of superstition in general. At any rate, I am done with this topic. If there's a vote to grant you a whole subforum for this, you can guess which way I'd vote. 😉
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richard.chasen
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10:43 PM - Aug 13, 2018 #20

Philosophical math is not superstition. I have extracted the math based truth from arcane disciplines. Every delusion and every superstition has a shred of truth otherwise it fails to continue. 

The results I've developed over the years can be demonstrated and my experiments repeated, but 10 minutes a day is too time consuming in your opinion. 

I'm aware of some persons here being drug users including tobacco and psychiatric drugs. The use of my methods along with dozens is an opposite direction from drug use - even tobacco use. I can understand. Going against entities controlling the masses of this planet will trigger subconscious resistance. 
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Silvano
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10:14 PM - Aug 14, 2018 #21

Kodegadulo wrote:  At any rate, I am done with this topic.  . 😉
Don't lose your time, and let him discuss his assertions with nobody but angels...
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Kodegadulo
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10:37 PM - Aug 15, 2018 #22

Silvano wrote:
Kodegadulo wrote:  At any rate, I am done with this topic.  . 😉
Don't lose your time, and let him discuss his assertions with nobody but angels...
Yes, I am not going to engage with him, but I will make one last comment to answer you, Silvano. I agree, let's waste no more time on this man's delusions. The worst of which is this gem:
richard.chasen wrote:Every delusion and every superstition has a shred of truth otherwise it fails to continue.
What a breathtaking underestimate of the vast gullibility of human beings to swallow lies and fictions as "truth"! Lies that are lies from start to finish, yet eagerly gobbled up because they promised people their fondest wishes. Examples abound throughout human history.

The defense mechanisms against seeing lies for what they are are typical:
richard.chasen wrote:The results I've developed over the years can be demonstrated and my experiments repeated, but 10 minutes a day is too time consuming in your opinion.
See, what he is really trying to set up is a cult, with himself as the high priest, and his acolytes committed to the success of his sacraments so that they can reap the promised nirvana. He attempts to minimize the commitment required by pretending it's just a trivial time commitment. Just a breather a day, and you will be magically cured! That baits the hook, but obscures the fact that the real commitment is one of belief. If you but believe in his philosophy, and follow his dictates, you will gain miraculous benefits from a highly unlikely source, for arcane and mysterious reasons. If you are cured, he gets the credit, with absolutely no accounting for placebo affect or coincidence. If you are not cured, then you must not have believed hard enough, or not have followed his instructions correctly. It would be your fault, not his. Convenient, eh?
richard.chasen wrote:Going against entities controlling the masses of this planet will trigger subconscious resistance.
Ah, I was waiting for that. See how he neatly innoculates himself against skeptics: He seeks to convince us that we are all under the influence of a secret conspiracy to control our minds. Classic. If we deny it, that just proves how much we are in thrall of the conspiracy. By that expedient, he can project his own affliction upon all of us, even those of us who are clearly not addicts, and never have been. We are all sick, and don't even know it, and he has the cure.  That way he seeks to maximize his potential pool of recruits.

But now my bus ride home from work is coming to an end. This deconstruction was fun, but I have no more time to waste on it. 🙂
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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richard.chasen
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6:22 PM - Aug 16, 2018 #23

Kodegadulo wrote:


Yes, I am not going to engage with him, but I will make one last comment to answer you, Silvano. I agree, let's waste no more time on this man's delusions. The worst of which is this gem:
richard.chasen wrote:Every delusion and every superstition has a shred of truth otherwise it fails to continue.
What a breathtaking underestimate of the vast gullibility of human beings to swallow lies and fictions as "truth"! Lies that are lies from start to finish, yet eagerly gobbled up because they promised people their fondest wishes. Examples abound throughout human history.

The defense mechanisms against seeing lies for what they are are typical:
richard.chasen wrote:The results I've developed over the years can be demonstrated and my experiments repeated, but 10 minutes a day is too time consuming in your opinion.
See, what he is really trying to set up is a cult, with himself as the high priest, and his acolytes committed to the success of his sacraments so that they can reap the promised nirvana. He attempts to minimize the commitment required by pretending it's just a trivial time commitment. Just a breather a day, and you will be magically cured! That baits the hook, but obscures the fact that the real commitment is one of belief. If you but believe in his philosophy, and follow his dictates, you will gain miraculous benefits from a highly unlikely source, for arcane and mysterious reasons. If you are cured, he gets the credit, with absolutely no accounting for placebo affect or coincidence. If you are not cured, then you must not have believed hard enough, or not have followed his instructions correctly. It would be your fault, not his. Convenient, eh?
richard.chasen wrote:Going against entities controlling the masses of this planet will trigger subconscious resistance.
Ah, I was waiting for that. See how he neatly innoculates himself against skeptics: He seeks to convince us that we are all under the influence of a secret conspiracy to control our minds. Classic. If we deny it, that just proves how much we are in thrall of the conspiracy. By that expedient, he can project his own affliction upon all of us, even those of us who are clearly not addicts, and never have been. We are all sick, and don't even know it, and he has the cure.  That way he seeks to maximize his potential pool of recruits.

But now my bus ride home from work is coming to an end. This deconstruction was fun, but I have no more time to waste on it. 🙂
What an expert on spin you are. 
Just a few short points. 
1. I've studied psychology and psychiatry and in those studies I've read that delusions have a truth followed by very flawed logic. The same applies to collective delusions aka superstitions. As a former member of a fundamentalist cult (childhood) I can state many examples of scripture being twisted into delusions the entire church shares. One could start a cult based on just about any scientific fact simply by applying delusional logic. I can cite examples. 

2. Starting a cult? really? 10 minutes a day of observations by a person with no knowledge of what the interpretations are supposed to be. How can belief be a requirement prior to being told what to believe? Its just producing data to be evaluated at a later date. Often keeping such records has other advantages for persons whose memory isn't perfect. While some might observe patterns there is no expectation or even knowledge that observations will match my observations. Many people keep diaries and journals. Most of them do not later look for patterns. 
Promise of cures? Well that can be excused as a misunderstanding of what I've said. I said that the use of mathematics to more accurately know WHEN you are in itself improves sanity. I know of therapies that cure being upset (which is usually due to some confusion) by having a person better know WHERE they are by touching walls and identifying and naming every object in the room. Philosophical mathematics and the focus on WHEN you are are two different things. My interest in philosophical mathematics and my use of dozens math are both outgrowths of my interest in astrology. If astrology is a collective delusion the increased focus on WHEN you are (when casting horoscopes) along with the resultant increased sanity is the truth behind the delusion. Anything someone exercises gets stronger and bigger. I also exercise my body with push ups. 

3. Conspiracy? No, every culture and even humanity has a group mind. Deviance from this causes stress and often mental illness. 
Let's take this group here as an example. Obviously there is no cult leader controlling what people here believe, but there is a group belief with every person posting on this forum being a vector to the group belief. I happen to be a vector in a deviant direction to some members of this group and I physically feel the related stress. Tolerance of drugs is an example related to western culture. In the USA 25% of the adult population are drug addicts (tobacco) and I'm a vector against the tobacco industry opposing tolerance of the related drug and alcohol addiction along with heart disease. Relative to my culture becoming a heroin addict, cocaine addict, or an alcoholic is a deviance in the opposite direction from me. 
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icarus
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icarus
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Joined: 12:29 PM - Apr 11, 2006

2:14 AM - Aug 19, 2018 #24

I am religious and it ain't no superstition; most people in the world are religious. It's human to be religious. (Don't you hate it when some people call people "hyoomunz" like some space alien come down to neutralize us for a pesky space highway or examine us like amoeba specimens?) Even so, I think it is beyond the scope of this forum to delve too deeply in metaphysical solutions for people's lives, including my own religious beliefs (which are quite strong - if someone wants to talk about faith I am willing to do so personally and indeed am and have and will, I have spoken in public many times and shared faith and fellowship with dozens and grosses of men, and partake in retreats regularly. This is not the place for sharing my faith). I don't think that is why people come to this board.

We come to talk about number bases, specifically that of the number twelve.

Now to say "3 is the Magic Number", well it is (just ask Schoolhouse Rock!). Or say that 7 is "lucky" in the west but in the east it's "eight", we can talk about that. I wouldn't want to go very much deeper. That's my opinion. Some may on account of the prevalence of their particular faith in their locale might talk about 12 apostles (I do), some talk about 12 days of Christmas. Others talk about 12 imams. That's alright. We are not suggesting in these cases that folks must accede to these patriarchs, or that they must celebrate those holidays, as it would better their lives (despite my personal convictions, which are enormously powerful, personally). I am not sure we ought to be making claims of cure for maladies real or perceived on this forum for many reasons, most significant of these is legal. This is an international site. None of us want to be liable for such claims. Further, I think people are free to live their lives and pursue aims they deem for themselves to merit their energy, regardless of what my moral system is (and my moral system is of course righteous, it is truth, that is what I believe). It is not my place to impose that system here. That is not what we are talking about on this forum. So I would say this is not the place for deep metaphysical cures brought about by numbers or numerology.

Surely we might say, "It is said in [source] that the number 12 makes people puke on odd numbered Tuesdays when standing with one's nose to the northwest and in Brno, Slovakia." Fine. "It is said that the number 4 is evil in certain parts of Brazzaville [source]", or no source necessary when we say that "everyone knows that there are 7 dwarves" if it is indeed relatively common knowledge. Then move on to make a point. But for me to say, "using duodecimal numeration will make you healthier, happier, cure your spleen and make you walk like a man, talk like a man, walk like a man my son", with lengthy explanation, it might be too much. How can we prove it? And again, is it spam, selling something that no one had asked for? No one is perfect and many times people are just getting by as it is. They aren't asking for anonymous cures from a number base discussion forum. Why not leave it to friends and relations to counsel the person? I know I am not too effective in Brazzaville or Brno, but to my friends and family here, I can sit and visit and talk at length with someone who needs help, fully present. I understand the desire to help other people and stop what we might perceive as suffering, but this is not the place.

There are others who talk about measurements of ancient structures and ancient measures and conjectures about how these are interrelated and a sort of gnostic or semi-gnostic knowledge about these relationships. That's harmless. Conjectures and what-ifs, observations, all are harmless. It would be nice to have evidence or proof; sometimes it is hard to come by and we are left hoping for some validation. Some people say these people are cranks, I don't. They haven't made a mathematical claim. They did not square the circle or call 1 prime and yell at 2500 years of mathematics as wrong. They're free to discuss with anyone who'll join them in discussion. Twelve often figures into their discussions. I don't normally discuss those topics because it is not my interest. People who want to talk about these things will enter into conversation, others will ignore. (I would prefer people refrain from badgering). These people are not prescribing these measures as curative, or solutions to people's real or perceived maladies.

We all want to become perfected. Let it suffice here that knowledge, either mathematically or scientifically sound logic, are the only forms of resolution to problems involving number bases and anything adjunct to these. Outside of that, we're moving further away from the focus of the forum. Folks are free to start a separate forum elsewhere if they feel a strong need to discuss those topics. This forum is free of charge, for example. A similar forum dedicated to metaphysical cures might be more appropriate in its own forum.
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