jamie144
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jamie144
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Joined: May 22 2010, 08:09 AM

Nov 15 2011, 10:15 PM #25

Kodegadulo @ Nov 15 2011, 08:46 PM wrote: Hmm, in terms of electronegativity, the nobel gasses seem to fit better on the right, at least according to Wikipedia. At least, the numbers for Kr, Xe, Rn are closer to their halogen than to their alkali neighbors.
Well that's mighty peculiar. I've always understood the halogens to have high electronegativity, and the noble gasses to have no electronegativity. Indeed, as I write this, the periodic table that I'm looking at gives fluorine an electronegativity of 4, and all the halogens zero. And that's what I've always seen for many years. I'll mention this as well when I see the chemist tomorrow. I've also posted a question at Wikipedia.
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Kodegadulo
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Kodegadulo
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Joined: Sep 10 2011, 11:27 PM

Nov 16 2011, 01:51 AM #26

jamie144 @ Nov 15 2011, 10:15 PM wrote:
Kodegadulo @ Nov 15 2011, 08:46 PM wrote: Hmm, in terms of electronegativity, the nobel gasses seem to fit better on the right, at least according to Wikipedia. At least, the numbers for Kr, Xe, Rn are closer to their halogen than to their alkali neighbors.
Well that's mighty peculiar. I've always understood the halogens to have high electronegativity, and the noble gasses to have no electronegativity. Indeed, as I write this, the periodic table that I'm looking at gives fluorine an electronegativity of 4, and all the halogens zero. And that's what I've always seen for many years. I'll mention this as well when I see the chemist tomorrow. I've also posted a question at Wikipedia.
The interactive periodic table at PTable.com shows the electronegativity of He, Ne, Ar as unknown, Kr 3.0 (cf Br 2.96), Xe 2.6 (cf I 2.66) and Rn, UUo unknown. If we assume that unknown means 0, then 4 out of 6 naturally occurring noble gasses could go over to the right, but Krypton and Xenon are weird. I know that those two have been forced to form compounds with Fluorine under the right conditions. I think it's the fact that the atoms are getting so large at that level that those outer shells, even though complete, are so far from the nucleus that other atoms are able to pull electrons out.

Anyway, kudos to dgiii for the dozenal periodic table. You ought to shoehorn it into the TGM book somehow.
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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dgoodmaniii
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dgoodmaniii
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Joined: May 21 2009, 01:45 PM

Nov 16 2011, 02:12 PM #27

Boy, this sciencey stuff sure is complicated! :-)

I think I'm going to stick with what I've got for now, with the possible exception of changing the number-based element names. It seems there are good arguments for both changing things and leaving them the same, and there's no strong consensus for either; better to leave them the same, then, at least for a non-chemist like myself.
All numbers in my posts are dozenal unless stated otherwise.
For ten, I use :A or X; for elv, I use :B or E. For the digital/fractional/radix point, I use the Humphrey point, ";".
TGM for the win!
Dozenal Adventures
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Ruthe
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Ruthe
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Joined: Feb 27 2006, 09:23 PM

Nov 16 2011, 06:05 PM #28

Why a Roman pocket abacus? They used dozenal fractions as their main form of fractions, 12 inches per foot & originally 12 oz per pound (inch=ounce=uncia=1/12). Columns 1 & 2 of the abacus are for dozenal fractions, column two for twelfths and column one, dozenal fractions of a twelfth. Columns 3 through 8 provided a decimal place value system with values from 1s to millions where each lower bead counts as 1 & the upper beads count 5 of a column's base 10 power, Is, Vs, Xs, Ls, Cs ,Ds, Ms etc.
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jamie144
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jamie144
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Joined: May 22 2010, 08:09 AM

Nov 17 2011, 04:35 PM #29

Some dozenalists might be interested in this hexagonal periodic table (which isn’t in the list that I posted above and again below):

http://www.periodicspiral.com/images/do ... sprint.pdf

Kodegadulo: It seems that extraordinary measures must be taken to make the noble gasses reactive. Obviously, they’re still nothing like their halogen neighbors.

Dgoodmaniii: I’ve recently learned that some textbooks already do indeed call the noble gasses ‘group zero’, so doing the same for the dozenal periodic table would not be too radical. So, as I said before, even if you decide not to move them, I’d still be grateful to see a big ‘0’ above the noble gasses. (Also, don’t forget the error that I spotted (Column 3 III A should actually be 3 III B))

Ruthe: Did you already take a look at these. In particular, “Scandium Group and The Periodic Table” might interest you.

http://www.meta-synthesis.com/webbook/3 ... tabase.php
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dgoodmaniii
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dgoodmaniii
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Joined: May 21 2009, 01:45 PM

Dec 14 2011, 01:28 PM #30

I've ironed out the major errors in the dozenal periodic table, a new version of which can be found here:

Dozenal Periodic Table

These includes dozenal labels for the lanthanides and actinides (my regex missed them the first time through), and most importantly the atomic weights no longer pretend to more significant digits than they're entitled to. (I simply copied the number of significant digits on the decimal table I'm using; for this few number of places, I think that's probably fair.)

I haven't changed the names of the number-named elements to SDN yet, nor have I corrected the problem jamie144 noted, because I just remembered it now. :-) But this is more or less complete.
All numbers in my posts are dozenal unless stated otherwise.
For ten, I use :A or X; for elv, I use :B or E. For the digital/fractional/radix point, I use the Humphrey point, ";".
TGM for the win!
Dozenal Adventures
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Double sharp
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Double sharp
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Joined: Sep 19 2015, 11:02 AM

Oct 18 2017, 07:35 AM #31

[quote="Ruthe @ Nov 16 2011, 06:05 PM"] [/quote] While the [i]pattern[/i] dictates that it should be so, sometimes the chemistry refuses to cooperate: for one thing, zinc, cadmium, and mercury act far more like their neighbours in the p-block than their neighbours in the d-block. <shameless plug>It so happens that I co-wrote [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sandbh/Group_3]a submission to IUPAC[/url] about this issue with another Wikipedian, since there is now a task force deciding on Sc-Y-La-Ac vs Sc-Y-Lu-Lr, analysing the arguments made by both sides. We generally found -La-Ac more convincing once you take the actual chemical behaviour observed into account. </shameless plug> :P
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Ruthe
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Ruthe
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Joined: Feb 27 2006, 09:23 PM

Mar 2 2018, 10:20 PM #32

dgoodmaniii wrote: I've ironed out the major errors in the dozenal periodic table, a new version of which can be found here:

Dozenal Periodic Table

These includes dozenal labels for the lanthanides and actinides (my regex missed them the first time through), and most importantly the atomic weights no longer pretend to more significant digits than they're entitled to.  (I simply copied the number of significant digits on the decimal table I'm using; for this few number of places, I think that's probably fair.)  

I haven't changed the names of the number-named elements to SDN yet, nor have I corrected the problem jamie144 noted, because I just remembered it now.  :-)  But this is more or less complete.

On reviewing this thread, I am still unable to view the Dozenal Period Table link as it just returns with a 404 error.
Why a Roman pocket abacus? They used dozenal fractions as their main form of fractions, 12 inches per foot & originally 12 oz per pound (inch=ounce=uncia=1/12). Columns 1 & 2 of the abacus are for dozenal fractions, column two for twelfths and column one, dozenal fractions of a twelfth. Columns 3 through 8 provided a decimal place value system with values from 1s to millions where each lower bead counts as 1 & the upper beads count 5 of a column's base 10 power, Is, Vs, Xs, Ls, Cs ,Ds, Ms etc.
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Shaun
Dozens Disciple
Shaun
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Joined: Aug 2 2005, 04:09 PM

Mar 8 2018, 07:13 AM #33

Tapatalk are currently investigating the broken link problem and Kode has been working on it as well.
I use the following conventions for dozenal numbers in my posts.

* prefixes a dozenal number, e.g. *50 = 60.
The apostrophe (') is used as a dozenal point, e.g. 0'6 = 0.5.
T and E stand for ten and eleven respectively.
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