Celebrating Ten Trinadays Today!

icarus
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icarus
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Oct 22 2017, 02:06 PM #1

Today is a day bigger than a birthday. I am days old today. When I was one dozen three years old and bored in geometry class, I figured I was 3295; days old. Somehow that reckoning stuck and has served as the way I add dates to things, including project numbers in my business. The system I devised as a zenager was thus: The "trakaðryse" or red calendar used a dozen 100;-day "xrgyn" to each 1000;-day "xisaën." The red calendar was prevalent between the inception of ñiçme (dozenalism) in 1985 and 1990, then readopted in 1996, and is the currently dominant calendar. (like many dozenalists I was once a conlanger, and now that it entered my journal, those names stuck.) The "trakaðsyne" or blue calendar used a dozen 30;-day "ekronyn" to each 300;-day "anrenâ." The blue calendar was prevalent between 1990 and 1996. The name "xisaën" (she-saw-enn) means "life-stage", and this is the start of the tenth life-stage, about 4 years 10 months long. As a zenager it was pretty convenient that the length of that unit was about the length of high school, then college (I had a 5 year program and am young compared to my peers being born in July) so it seemed like a "stage" of life. The name "xrgâ" (shur-gung) means "life-phase" and is about 5 months long. This derives from being about the length of a "phase", as in your mother saying, "Oh, he's going through a phase". It's interesting to see how dozenalists think alike, granted that grouping days into the dozenal equivalent of the rather dumb "one hundred days" sort of thing is indeed maybe the province of a zenager. I think Tom Pendlebury called the same concept as my "xisaën" a triniDay, the "xrgâ" a dunaDay. Primel has "trinaday" and "binaday" if I am correct. Thus I am ten triniDays old today, and in 2 triniDays, it will be a quedriDay, two-thirds of the way through an average lifespan, if ppl don't press certain red buttons or Yellowstone doesn't kill the joy. Fully dozenal lengths of time do make sense when these are considered in a "scientific" or fully coherent system like primel. We would probably apply them to astronomical or extraterrestrial measurements, like the passing of "geologic" time in other planetary or evolutionary environments. (Consider the parameters of orbit and rotation of the Earth are in flux, such that the year had very many more days than it has now when we are looking millions of years back. So the only reason to use "years" and "days" is relational. It would be more proper, perhaps, to speak of "seconds" but in a primel sense, octadays, etc.). The old "blue" calendar attempted to make rough analogies to "years" and "months" via "anrenâ" (on-ray-nung) "reneyan years", reney being my oldest "avatar", and "ekrone" (ay-krow-nay). This is not really too useful as the periods need to precisely match the 365.256 or whatever actual year-day ratio. This is why it hasn't lasted despite an initial rather sustained fascination. What are your thoughts on the division of time in your life or just in general? Have you come up with a system?
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Double sharp
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Oct 22 2017, 02:42 PM #2

I think it would be "triquaday" and "biquaday" in Primel; "trina-" and "bina-" are multiplicative prefixes for "3 times" and "2 times" respectively, while "triqua-" and "biqua-" mean "dozen-to-the-third times" and "dozen-to-the-second times" respectively.

I must be one of those rare people who are interested in dozenal and have never actually constructed a language! I have a half-fleshed out calendar making use of the close correspondence 364 = 13 * 28, but never actually got around to working with it - mostly because the Gregorian calendar is so entrenched that working with anything else requires more conversion that I'm willing to spend my time doing. ^_^

P.S. I just did the calculations, and apparently I'm very close to completing another great gross days on the planet myself... ^_^
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Paul Rapoport
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Oct 23 2017, 03:50 PM #3

As you know, I'm fully dozenal in clock and calendar usage. No conlang inventions, however, beyond setting the months up with Greek names, which I don't actually use. I prefer to repurpose terms in English or another language rather than invent new ones. Maybe I was never a zenager (?)

Although it may seem hard to use a dozenal calendar in current life, it's not so hard, if the calendar shows both. By dozenal I mean a 6-day week, of course, plus starting the year on a solstice, plus starting the count of years further back than most do. Admittedly, it's the 6-day week that's the "oddest" part. But it works for me.

The calendar, owing much to Sunny's contribution, is a balance of regularity/predictability with astronomical accuracy. I find it astronomically too disconcerting to use 100z, 300z, 1000z, etc. periods, and certainly stay away from multiples of 7, even if 264z is a notable one.

For a year with sevens, 11z * 24z works well, although if going above 10z, I'd try 13z * 20z, while dumping 7.

It looks like earlier this year I passed day no. 12600z. I have a friend who occasionally counts his age in seconds…but I do trices or lulls…which I don't count!
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Double sharp
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Oct 24 2017, 02:21 AM #4

I think the ease of use of a week that isn't 7 days greatly depends on what your working hours are like. If they are fairly inflexible, it doesn't really matter that 7 is not regular dozenally: you'll just get pushed back onto that totative row. ^_^ (Religious concerns are another factor.)

Ideally I agree that a 7-day week had better be left to heptadactyls using base 14, and that we should get by with a less stubborn number like you can. But I have a problem actually putting that into practice.
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Double sharp
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Oct 24 2017, 02:29 AM #5

icarus @ Oct 22 2017, 02:06 PM wrote: The "trakaðryse" or red calendar used a dozen 100;-day "xrgyn" to each 1000;-day "xisaën." The red calendar was prevalent between the inception of ñiçme (dozenalism) in 1985 and 1990, then readopted in 1996, and is the currently dominant calendar. (like many dozenalists I was once a conlanger, and now that it entered my journal, those names stuck.)

The "trakaðsyne" ...

It's interesting to see how dozenalists think alike, granted that grouping days into the dozenal equivalent of the rather dumb "one hundred days" sort of thing is indeed maybe the province of a zenager. I think Tom Pendlebury called the same concept as my "xisaën" a triniDay, the "xrgâ" a dunaDay. Primel has "trinaday" and "binaday" if I am correct. Thus I am ten triniDays old today, and in 2 triniDays, it will be a quedriDay, two-thirds of the way through an average lifespan, if ppl don't press certain red buttons or Yellowstone doesn't kill the joy. Fully dozenal lengths of time do make sense when these are considered in a "scientific" or fully coherent system like primel. We would probably apply them to astronomical or extraterrestrial measurements, like the passing of "geologic" time in other planetary or evolutionary environments. (Consider the parameters of orbit and rotation of the Earth are in flux, such that the year had very many more days than it has now when we are looking millions of years back. So the only reason to use "years" and "days" is relational. It would be more proper, perhaps, to speak of "seconds" but in a primel sense, octadays, etc.).
Icarus, could you give us a pronunciation guide for your conlang? I see quite a bit of it on your immensely interesting website, but I am not sure how I should be mentally pronouncing it. Thank you for the snippets you gave later in the post; I hope it is not a sin to want more! ^_^

I guess the main reason against grouping in pure dozenal powers of days is that the calendar will have nothing to do with the seasons. Then again, this may not be a problem, since the Islamic lunar calendar has no intercalation and so its 354-day cycle falls completely out of step with the 365.25-day solar year. But until recently in Saudi Arabia it was a perfectly serviceable civil calendar, at least until they changed to the Gregorian calendar since a yearly salary is more if it is paid every 354 than every 365.25 days... ;)
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Oschkar
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Oct 24 2017, 06:26 PM #6

Source

I’m sure that ⟨x⟩ is /ʃ/, ⟨c⟩ is /tʃ/, ⟨j⟩ is /ʒ/, ⟨q⟩ is /ŋ/ and ⟨ç⟩ is /x/. I assume that circumflexes indicate nasal vowels. Icarus transcribes them with “ng” after the vowel, but I’d assume that if /ŋ/ were actually the case, it would simply be romanized with a ⟨q⟩. ⟨ñ⟩ is distinct from ⟨n⟩, but exactly how is unclear, since it’s just represented by “n” in icarus’s transcriptions; it might be a palatal nasal /ɲ/. ⟨r⟩ is also unclear; it’s variously transcribed with “sh”, “zh” and “r”. As it can be syllabic, I’ll assume that it’s a retroflex approximant like the ⟨r⟩ in Mandarin Chinese.

I have no idea how stress works, though. It seems to have something to do with syllable weight, but I can’t quite figure out the pattern. At least ⟨a⟩ and ⟨e⟩ in some unstressed syllables reduce to schwa.

So, /trəˈkaðɻysə/, /ˈʃɻ̍gyn/, /ʃiˈsa.en/, /ʹɲixmə/, /trəˈkaðsynə/, /eˈkɻonyn/, /ənˈɻenə̃/, or thereabouts?
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sunny
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Nov 7 2017, 10:06 PM #7

[quote="icarus @ Oct 22 2017, 07:36 PM"]Today is a day bigger than a birthday. I am days old today. When I was one dozen three years old and bored in geometry class, I figured I was 3295; days old. Somehow that reckoning stuck and has served as the way I add dates to things, including project numbers in my business.[/quote] I am not sure If it is bigger than a birthday, but it would be bigger in a sense that the approach of 12^3 days is less frequent than a traditional year. Anyhow, you have given me a reason to celebrate one for it, a good one for me at 14th April next year, I would be *6000, which is 6 triquadays or half quadquadays. Should I party like it's more than a birthday? :D I don't know as even the good nearest decimal number to me: 10,000 won't be even considered a brief time of thought, for any classmates of mine (I guess) because as usual, quite majority of them live only the decimal world.
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Double sharp
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Nov 7 2017, 11:38 PM #8

sunny @ Nov 7 2017, 10:06 PM wrote: Should I party like it's more than a birthday?  :D I don't know as even the good nearest decimal number to me: 10,000 won't be even considered a brief time of thought, for any classmates of mine (I guess) because as usual, quite majority of them live only the decimal world.
Go for it! ^_^

EDIT: Apparently I missed my 1225th = 5^2 * 7^2 post (it was probably in the tour for base 252). A rather clunky number full of fives and sevens, but a square nonetheless!
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Kodegadulo
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Nov 9 2017, 11:40 PM #9

I'm well over Ɛᘔ00z (eleven-dozen-ten gross) days old at this point, rapidly coming up on ƐƐ00z (eleven-dozen-eleven gross) days.  That means I'll be hitting one quadquaday sometime next April.  Dozen-to-the-fourth-power.

Man, getting this old is gross -- squared. 🙂
Last edited by Kodegadulo on Jul 1 2018, 03:29 PM, edited 2 times in total.
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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jim
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Nov 10 2017, 11:32 AM #10

Double sharp @ Nov 7 2017, 11:38 PM wrote:
sunny @ Nov 7 2017, 10:06 PM wrote: Should I party like it's more than a birthday?  :D I don't know as even the good nearest decimal number to me: 10,000 won't be even considered a brief time of thought, for any classmates of mine (I guess) because as usual, quite majority of them live only the decimal world.
Go for it! ^_^

EDIT: Apparently I missed my 1225th = 5^2 * 7^2 post (it was probably in the tour for base 252). A rather clunky number full of fives and sevens, but a square nonetheless!
You know 252 is an interesting number.

If anyone read my post today re the height of the great pyramid 437.5 saxon feet.

437.5 x Fibonacci value for pi 3.14181818 = 1374.54545

252 / 22 = 11.45454545 x 6 = 68.727272 x 2 = 137.454545
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Kodegadulo
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Apr 17 2018, 01:58 PM #11

Kodegadulo wrote: I'm well over Ɛᘔ00z (eleven-dozen-ten gross) days old at this point, rapidly coming up on ƐƐ00z (eleven-dozen-eleven gross) days.  That means I'll be hitting one quadquaday sometime next April.  Dozen-to-the-fourth-power.

Man, getting this old is gross -- squared. :)
Gonna hit the big one-quadruple-oh this week! 10,000z days.

P.S. Sunny, happy 6,000z days!
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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icarus
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Jul 1 2018, 02:18 PM #12

Today I am four dozen years old, nice, even unquade. I have quipped about this birthday being my four-dozenth IRL. Someone who had recently turned five dozen mused at the novelty of counting years in dozens rather than decades. It does render the aged more youthful. I think we could bottle that. Put it up on a billboard: "Uncial numeration will make you feel younger!" Because fourzen just sounds younger than forty-eight; fivezen less than sixty. Anyway, dozens of things to do today, mostly, hit the pool with my wife annd kiddos and eat some cake with just four big candles on it, one for each dozenade!
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Kodegadulo
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Jul 1 2018, 03:08 PM #13

icarus wrote: Today I am four dozen years old, nice, even unquade. I have quipped about this birthday being my four-dozenth IRL. Someone who had recently turned five dozen mused at the novelty of counting years in dozens rather than decades. It does render the aged more youthful. I think we could bottle that. Put it up on a billboard: "Uncial numeration will make you feel younger!" Because fourzen just sounds younger than forty-eight; fivezen less than sixty. Anyway, dozens of things to do today, mostly, hit the pool with my wife annd kiddos and eat some cake with just four big candles on it, one for each dozenade!
Happy Birthday! 🎂🎉
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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Kodegadulo
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Jul 1 2018, 03:22 PM #14

Oschkar wrote: Source

I’m sure that ⟨x⟩ is /ʃ/, ⟨c⟩ is /tʃ/, ⟨j⟩ is /ʒ/, ⟨q⟩ is /ŋ/ and ⟨ç⟩ is /x/. I assume that circumflexes indicate nasal vowels. Icarus transcribes them with “ng” after the vowel, but I’d assume that if /ŋ/ were actually the case, it would simply be romanized with a ⟨q⟩. ⟨ñ⟩ is distinct from ⟨n⟩, but exactly how is unclear, since it’s just represented by “n” in icarus’s transcriptions; it might be a palatal nasal /ɲ/. ⟨r⟩ is also unclear; it’s variously transcribed with “sh”, “zh” and “r”. As it can be syllabic, I’ll assume that it’s a retroflex approximant like the ⟨r⟩ in Mandarin Chinese.

I have no idea how stress works, though. It seems to have something to do with syllable weight, but I can’t quite figure out the pattern. At least ⟨a⟩ and ⟨e⟩ in some unstressed syllables reduce to schwa.

So, /trəˈkaðɻysə/, /ˈʃɻ̍̍̍ gyn/, /ʃiˈsa.en/, /ʹɲixmə/, /trəˈkaðsynə/, /eˈkɻonyn/, /ənˈɻenə̃/, or thereabouts?
Just wanted to see what Oschar had written up there. (Tapatalk borked all his original unicode.)
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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richard.chasen
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Jul 2 2018, 06:34 PM #15

icarus wrote: Today is a day bigger than a birthday. I am days old today. When I was one dozen three years old and bored in geometry class, I figured I was 3295; days old. Somehow that reckoning stuck and has served as the way I add dates to things, including project numbers in my business.

The system I devised as a zenager was thus:



What are your thoughts on the division of time in your life or just in general? Have you come up with a system?
I also keep a dozenal count of days for every important date in my life. I note the prime factors. I find that exponential numbers of days of an event are most important. For example I recently had a potentially important event on my 3^9 day of my birth. I made the correct decision. I consider my birth and my conception to be important dates in my life.
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icarus
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Jul 3 2018, 02:05 AM #16

3^9 = 3^3^2* is coming up in my life! I remember 3969 = 3^8; I was a senior in high school! Then I did think that 1323, I was a kid in first grade, and b483 I would probably have grown-up kids. I also remember "ten thousandth day" = 5954, when I was two dozen three years old; it was in the autumn.

Here are uncial dates between 3000 ≤ d ≤ 18000 such that the date is an integer power k^e with 2 ≤ k ≤ 20 (all in uncial):
3460   16^3 14
3969 3^8 16
3b77 17^3 17
4600 6^5 19
4768 18^3 1a
48a8 2^11 1a
5439 19^3 21
5954 a^4 23
61b4 1a^3 25
705b 1b^3 39
8000 20^3 32
8581 b^4 34
9061 5^6 37
9594 2^12 39
9887 7^5 3a
b483 3^9 46
10000 10^4 49
14641 11^4 66
Note that these uncial numbers of days happen to trend in a band wherein we have exponents 4 to 9 inclusive of numbers 3 to 11 inclusive (for 2 we have 48a8, 9594), but we also have the fourth-powers of numbers 16-27 inclusive.
It might be a vestige of Confucianism with me but I think the date of birth is a key thing; it used to be if I knew the date of birth of someone I had a key to understanding them. For me I have a long list of important dates like 3310, 4686, 4b76, 5454, 6225, 7307, etc. that represent milestones; I remember these dates rather than the actual calendar dates! Some people I remember the date I met them (e.g., 4109, 4168, 4354) and associate that number with them.

Let's see if anyone can get to 3^3^3 (i.e., a31,a85,203,623 days, 4,070,855,600 years). There is enough time in the universe for someone to be this old. Oh wait, that's uncial. The years in decimal are 20,892,047,904.
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richard.chasen
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Jul 3 2018, 05:07 PM #17

 icarus
 Nice chart. I have a similar chart in Excel, but I'm stuck using decimal because I can't figure out how to make a macro to convert to dozenal. It seems the language for macros is different than language for spreadsheets. 
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hotdog8
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Jul 4 2018, 02:47 AM #18

icarus wrote:
Let's see if anyone can get to 3^3^3 (i.e., a31,a85,203,623 days, 4,070,855,600 years). There is enough time in the universe for someone to be this old. Oh wait, that's uncial. The years in decimal are 20,892,047,904.
It's alright 'I car us' - I told you I was the Anti-Christ - in my own mind - and in total synchronicity with the music (Radio) and the external world which I perceive ("Man and his Symbols" - Carl Gustov Jung) - and hence with cause and effect in future reality - I have just blown up the whole universe - however, a moments pain, in just a flicker of time, for eternal peace, although perhaps there is a chance of the Phoenix rising from the ashes. At least I have stopped the Recurring Dream. But I have also brought justice to the song, whoever sings it - I forget - "The Day the Music Died" You are quite welcome to come over to Australia and shout me a beer for doing it! [redacted]. Perhaps you will never find me if you do not exist in Real Time like I do, just like your Superintendant who lives in a trailer like you were telling me. Happy Birthday too! My Birthday is the 3rd of August, 1965 - a perfectly balanced 5 in Numerology - just like a set of scales.
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Querty
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Jul 5 2018, 08:03 AM #19

@hotdog8

An Anti-Christ requires belief also in a Christ.
For those of us not bound by the traditional shackles of religious belief neither term is valid.
And I wouldn't post my full address in open forum; you might attract unwelcome attention!
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Kodegadulo
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Jul 5 2018, 02:17 PM #20

Querty wrote: @hotdog8

An Anti-Christ requires belief also in a Christ.
For those of us not bound by the traditional shackles of religious belief neither term is valid.
And I wouldn't post my full address in open forum; you might attract unwelcome attention!
Neither proselytizing a particular religious belief, nor questioning the value of religion in a post-Enlightenment era, is an appropriate topic for this forum. Let's not pursue such debates, but please stick to math.

That said, in this day and age it's really not a rational thing to do to post such details about oneself. Particularly giving one's true birthday. That's one of those tidbits hackers can use to help steal your identity and then empty out your credit cards. I think the admins should redact hotdog8's post for his own good, if he doesn't edit it himself.
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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icarus
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Jul 5 2018, 05:20 PM #21

Indeed. It was a point of admin consultation and the American holiday got in the way. Any explicit detailed identification will be redacted as soon as we are able; we make no guarantee that we will be able to catch or redact in a timely fashion and cannot be responsible for others leveraging your identification. This is a volunteer service, we don't have the means to prevent you from hurting yourself by posting such information. Please refrain from broadcasting your identification here; use PM or offline private communications for such, knowing that this transmission is not necessarily secure either.

Yes this is a place where we want to focus on maths and connected topics; broad-brush statements on spiritualism or non-spiritualism and politics without any connection to the topic or mission of the forum should be avoided. I say this as a  spiritual and religious person, and quite opinionated as well; this is not the place to proselytize; it is neutral. One's politics and beliefs are one's own freedom; we are here to talk about uncial (duodecimal) numeration in particular, number bases in general as regards the former, and sundry applications of such. I won't stifle the present speech however, despite the fact its connection to the forum is not immediately apparent (ha I have made unconnected comments as well). It is his opinion and he is entitled to it.

I used to tend bar. One of the boss's rules: "keep the customer happy, avoid bar fights, sell a lot of product." Everything stemmed from that, from keeping a clean and safe bar to sweeping, to refuse to serve overserved folks and helping them home (small town). Also, we said, "that's amazing" a lot to folks wanting to talk about the outrage du jour or pick nits about faith, and then "forza fiorentina!" ("Go, Home Team!") thereafter.
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richard.chasen
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Jul 5 2018, 08:06 PM #22

On the side topic of exponential numbers. There is an equation for pi(n) that predicts the number of primes up to a value of n. As I recall its the ratio of n/Log n. If exponential numbers were added in with the primes this equation would be more accurate. I define an exponential number as any prime "P" raised to an integer exponent. P^n
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icarus
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Jul 6 2018, 12:15 AM #23

Yes, the prime powers A000961 = {1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, 16, 17, 19, ...} or A025475 = {1, 4, 8, 9, 16, 25, 27, 32, 49, 64, 81, ...} (not counting primes. There are also sequences that leave out 1; A246547 probably makes the best sense, if we are leaving out primes themselves). I am not sure what also counting prime powers along with the prime counting function might tell us.
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richard.chasen
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Jul 6 2018, 06:43 PM #24

icarus wrote: Yes, the prime powers A000961 = {1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, 16, 17, 19, ...} or A025475 = {1, 4, 8, 9, 16, 25, 27, 32, 49, 64, 81, ...} (not counting primes. There are also sequences that leave out 1; A246547 probably makes the best sense, if we are leaving out primes themselves). I am not sure what also counting prime powers along with the prime counting function might tell us.
Yes add A246547 to the prime number sequence so that pi(100) is 35 instead of 25. (Equation predicts 50) The occurrence of exponential numbers decreases much faster than the occurrence of primes. 
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