Another Senary Advocate

This forum is dedicated to discussions of bases {6, 18, 24, 36, 48}, cousins to twelve.
Kodegadulo
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Kodegadulo
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Joined: Sep 10 2011, 11:27 PM

Apr 18 2018, 11:30 PM #25

SenaryThe12th wrote: *chuckle*  I confess, one of my favorite aspects of dozenalism is that we need two new cool symbols!!   Which opens up all kinds of neat things to think about:  which two symbols should we pick?   Or should we just chuck them all and come up with 12 new ones!!  Endless opportunities for fun.
What I found annoying about "ian misali's" video is the implied criticisms and subtle lampooning of dozenal and its usage by all the past generations of dozenalists. Lots of strawman and reductio ad absurdum arguments, nested in satirical snark. I hear echoes of that from you here. I'd prefer it if you and he would lay off the indirectness and just lay out the critique forthrightly. Then see what parts those of us present  here, and now actually defend or disavow. I personally don't think every past idea of the DSA necessarily has merit, but somehow the critics seem to think we now have to answer for all of them.

For instance, dozenalists in the past have advocated separate identity numerals. Some dozenalists. I am a dozenalist. I'm vehemently in the least change camp. I think most are today. Should I be painted with the separate identity brush?  Guilt by association? In fact it's my opinion that the whole question has pretty much been settled long ago. So why should any of us have to answer to this so-called "controversy", simply because some wags can find historical writings about it from the WWII era, on the DSA website?

Besides, the question is by no means unique to dozenal. I could just as easily snark about how any twinkling now some senarist will be lobbying us all to use the dot-shapes from dice or dominos to express base 6 numerals, just to assert the separate identity of senary.

As for what to use for transdecimals, well there have been various answers to that, all juggling the relevant trade offs of practicality and availability, and the tastes of different people on either side of the Atlantic. The DSA has modestly tried not to dictate what people should use. But it seems we aren't to be taken seriously unless there's just one universal solution established by unanimous fiat. Well we've come pretty far in getting Unicode to recognize the Pitmans, which is remarkable given how little clout any of us actually have. The Pitmans WILL be supported in all fonts, eventually.  What more do you guys want from us?

And we get similar lampooning about the various schemes people have come up with for dozenal pronunciation. Yeah, some of us advocate using what dozenal words English already has. But of course it needs more. Is it our fault it doesn't? Is it our fault that the only way to enhance it is by conlanging? How is that different from the fact that there are _no_ English words for any senary power at all, above six itself?  There's no choice but to conlang that too, and indeed that's exactly what "ian misali" engages in. Not very artfully or originally, imho. He's certainly swiped a lot of ideas from this forum, without acknowledging them.

Now, don't get me wrong. I think senary is a fun thought experiment. Indeed I've tried to help others flesh out their own thought experiments with senary, and even dreamed up Xohox numbers on a whim. I just think dozenal is a better fit for non-fictional people.
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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SenaryThe12th
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SenaryThe12th
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Joined: Mar 1 2018, 02:03 PM

Apr 19 2018, 01:03 AM #26

Kodegadulo wrote: I hear echoes of that from you here. I'd prefer it if you and he would lay off the indirectness and just lay out the critique forthrightly.

I'm afraid you are reading far too much into my post Kodo.   I've lived in NYC long enough to have the residual passive-aggressiveness beaten out of me.  If I don't like something, I'll say it.  You can take my words at face value.

When I say that thinking about extra symbols is one of my favorite things about dozenal, I meant it.  Come on, who doesn't like playing and thinking about cool new symbols?   My lighthearted tone isn't snark; its an attempt to enjoy a shared delight with you. 

Far from criticizing dozenal, I was actually *AGREEING* with you.  Dozenal numbers are less boring, more interesting, etc to look at.  They even have cool new symbols.
I'd prefer it if you and he would lay off the indirectness and just lay out the critique forthrightly.
Well that's just the thing; I haven't critiqued anything, *except* senary.  My request was explicitly for a list of critiques of senary. 

At no time did I try to dump poop on any other base.   Really, what should have tipped you off to that is your trying to lump me together with some other guy on the internet.  "You know those snarky-ass senarists, they are all the same."   Some forthright criticism: nobody likes to be stereotyped.  Read what I actually wrote; if you have a beef with somebody else, take it up with them, don't bring that baggage into conversations with me.  Please.

I'm a base pluralist.  Just like anybody else on here, I've got my favorite bases.  But professionally, I use 4 bases on a daily basis, and I use another one every time I look at a clock.  I take delight in every cool thing I see somebody doing in base 12 or any other base.  
Lots of strawman and reductio ad absurdum arguments
Well, if anybody has call to complain about being strawmaned, I think that would be me.  And I didn't do any reductio's, ad absurdum or ad anywhere else :-)  BTW, what *is* your beef with reductio ad absurdum?  Its a valid form of argument. 

P.S.  you ok bro?  Sometimes I wonder whether you come down a bit too hard because you are in a bad place.  Too many internet trolls got you down?
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Kodegadulo
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Kodegadulo
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Joined: Sep 10 2011, 11:27 PM

Apr 19 2018, 01:38 AM #27

Okay fair enough, Sen. Yeah, my beef is with "ian masali". Sorry to read unintended connotations between your lines. I guess I have felt a bit embattled over the years here. It's gotten to the point where I'm half-expecting it.

Re: reductio ad absurdum. I think if it's a matter of taking the opponent's points and showing how they logically lead to absurd conclusions, then it's a legitimate argument.  But if it amounts to painting an absurd caricature of one's opponent and then demonstrating that the caricature is absurd, well that's dirty pool.  But then that's just a straw man fallacy, isn't it?  Okay, my bad on the terminology. Anyway, I didn't intend to strawman you.  Like I said, I'm generally supportive of thought experiments like senary.

I guess I'm tired of the whole idea of everyone having to assert that their favorite base is "superior" and having to conquer the world for  its sake.  I've been kind of preaching coexistence for a while now.
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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SenaryThe12th
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SenaryThe12th
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Joined: Mar 1 2018, 02:03 PM

Apr 19 2018, 02:13 AM #28

Kodegadulo wrote:   Like I said, I'm generally supportive of thought experiments like senary.
Indeed, you helped me out with nomenclature in this very thread.  And I religiously read all your stuff on the Hexican thread.  You're a good egg man.  Can't wait to see what you and the rest of the folks on this forum come up with next.
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Kodegadulo
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Kodegadulo
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Joined: Sep 10 2011, 11:27 PM

Apr 19 2018, 10:32 AM #29

Funny, some months back I gave another member here what I intended to be a compliment. On face value, I was just saying something nice. But he (and apparently his brother) interpreted it as sarcasm (possibly because of the tenor of the exchange with yet another member going on at the same time). I was completely taken aback, and thought, for goodness sake, you can take anything nice and completely turn it around if you repeat the exact same words, but emote them with dripping scorn. I had to reassure him that I meant what I said plainly.  And now here ironically I've made the same misinterpretation of something Sen meant merely as a compliment. My bad.

Is there an emoticon that means "plain-speaking"?😉
As of 1202/03/01[z]=2018/03/01[d] I use:
ten,eleven = ↊↋, ᘔƐ, ӾƐ, XE or AB.
Base-neutral base annotations
Systematic Dozenal Nomenclature
Primel Metrology
Western encoding (not by choice)
Greasemonkey + Mathjax + PrimelDozenator
(Links to these and other useful topics are in my index post;
click on my user name and go to my "Website" link)
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Share

SenaryThe12th
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SenaryThe12th
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Joined: Mar 1 2018, 02:03 PM

Apr 19 2018, 01:19 PM #30

Is there an emoticon that means "plain-speaking"?
THAT is what the world needs now!!!
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