Greater Grace Messages

Registration required to start topics & post responses.

Greater Grace Messages

epistula
Advanced Member
epistula
Advanced Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2006, 15:40

28 Oct 2013, 22:22 #1

Schaller used Carl's message "Baked in the Loaf" 10/27/13 (reinforcing to not judge members of the "body"). When did Carl preach that?

Carl: “That means tonight that if a trial comes your way you get all flustered and all wrapped up in the trial, and God sent the trial as he did the manna. You don’t get wrapped up in the trial. You say, “Glory to God that’s not the true and living bread for me to eat. Jesus is. And you go in prayer and you stay on your knees and read the word and praise God and say, “I just got fed with the true and living bread.” Now let’s see, I did have a trial, let me think about it for a minute, God what do you want me to do in it….”

Schaller:
Hmmm. Wow.
…He used John 6: the manna from heaven that came down and Jesus said, “I am the true bread and if you eat this bread, you will not die. If you eat the manna in the wilderness when they ate it they died. It wasn’t enough…But I am the true bread and if you eat this bread you shall not die”
This is what he (Carl) said.
I could have God send something to me, I get into it, I complain, as they did the manna in the wilderness, they complained and they got into the situation instead of being baked in the loaf. Baked in the eternal purpose living with Christ and finding Him. Wow, that’s good.
I have a problem with my house that consumes my time and my life, I mean, that can happen easily but no wait a minute, I’ve died and now I live “corporately”. I am baked in the loaf…and we speak the same thing, see the same thing, relate to Christ in a vision and purpose that is from Him.

At 48:07timestamp

And let’s close in one simple application on that.
Listen, if you go away, just go away. My sister called me once years ago she said, “I go to church in California. I’m not really satisfied. I’ve got issues” and I say, “Mary, you can go. Just go away, don’t say anything, don’t bring people with you. Just go and find a place where you are fed and find a place where you are edified. Just go away. But don’t be critical and negative about the church that you are leaving and don’t talk to other people about it. You can go to the pastor tell him why you are leaving and then you may leave. And just leave. And you don’t even have to do that if you don’t want to, but you can just do that. Well what do you have to do? You have to discern the body and you cannot speak evil of the brethren. You cannot be accuser of the brethren. (edit: you most certainly can especially if you know of the misappropriation of funds or the adultery or the child molestation.)
I don’t care if they’re guilty or not. I don’t care if they’re guilty. I mean I care, of course, but where is the perfect place on the earth? We are baked in the loaf. Through death Christ has baptized us into the body in a practical way.

50:47timestamp
…Do not accuse. Do not blame. Do not judge. Do not gossip. Do not go on any of those social networks and propagate your garbage. It is amazing to me that somebody would be sitting in here for years and go out and then write their garbage on a social network. But they can do that, it’s fine, it doesn’t bother me. Honestly, it doesn’t because this is the world we live in and I have no control over that. I’m only saying to you for your sake, for your sake. It doesn’t hurt or bother me personally. But I see it a great violation of love, great violation of God, great violation of the Holy Spirit, great violation of honor towards the brethren that are nothing anyway. You know how you really can tell our value? Just remove us {edit: gladly}. Remove the church, remove this church, take it away. Remove it and then just see what, are you missing it? Do you miss the love, the connection, the relationships, the wisdom, the teaching, the purpose, the vision, the reaching out to different countries. Is that being missed? No, I don’t miss I don’t need it, I got a bowling league. I am a bowler, I am a softball player. I go to the sauna at the health club. I’m a weightlifter, I can go to the library, I’m on the internet, I’m fine without it. Then that’s fine. That’s your life.
And Jesus said, “If you gain your life, you will lose it.”

…You keep this sacred in your heart. You keep God sacred in your heart. You keep the teaching sacred in your heart. It’s how we got here. …it’s not a man, it’s not me or Pastor Stevens or any of us as people, we are nothing. It is simply, what is the Holy Spirit saying? Is He saying anything? Is it biblical? Is God challenging my flesh? Is God rubbing me the wrong way? Maybe it’s very good for me so I can go to the cross and die a death that I don’t want to die. But Jesus taught me that I will be a servant and say when you’re suffering, “Forgive them, they don’t know what they do”
Wow, if we live baked in the loaf this would be our spirit in our ministry and there would be a connection, automatic intimacy….we live baked in the loaf and we love the brethren and we care for them in our hearts.

Prayer:
Lord we just pray we could be sharp in warfare, we’d learn how to speak, listen who are friends are. Loyalty means a lot to us because you are a loyal God. We will love everyone but we will mark those in our hearts that are really willing to serve, lay down their lives and manifest Christ. We recognize them as members of the body and appreciate them. We appreciate everybody but we are also recognizing when somebody has died how edifying they are, when somebody has laid down their life how positive how encouraging ultimately they are. …no party spirits, no arrogance in the corner, no careless attitude, familiarity, foolishness in the flesh talking in only earthly terms without any devotion and radical, passionate love in the heart. Lord, that’s are calling. Thank you for it.
…Thank you Lord. Use these thoughts. We would understand them deeply in our hearts and endeavor for unity and that arrogance and the things that cling to the human heart would be far from us.
"Your time will come. You will face the same evil, and you will defeat it."
Reply
Like

out and about
Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2008, 04:55

29 Oct 2013, 18:35 #2

party spirits :lol:
isn't the bible filled with depictions of parties that get thrown. Didn't the father of the prodigal son pull out all the stops and throw a... party... I'm sure there was even... alcohol.... :o that was just a parable though, so it never really happened. I guess you'll have to comb through the bible to find other times of partying and drinking....

It's amazing how out of context and how there isn't a logical train of thought from TS or CHS. I get it, I know they're trying to say watch what you say, what you listen to, who you listen to, etc. The examples used are completely out of context. Manna in the desert was about trusting God for his provision, and does apply to our daily living, but it doesn't have any application with leaving a church....
Reply
Like

epistula
Advanced Member
epistula
Advanced Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2006, 15:40

05 Nov 2013, 22:59 #3

November 3, 2013
Sunday pm message.

This message is very disturbing. It's just part of it but it's very bad form.

Schaller:

He has the congregation repeat the scripture Isiah 55:8“My thoughts are not your thoughts, my ways are not your ways” a couple of times.

It is very important that we are learning God’s ways, God’s thoughts and that they are different than what we have by nature.
(references the morning message: a just man falls down many times) God’s thoughts are grace toward that man. That man would be solid in the faith and God’s righteous. The man would have imparted righteousness in his life.
(Apostle Paul was) cheating people, dishonest, believing but not really.

But the wicked they fall down into? Mischief. What did we say about that this morning? Mischief. Narrow pit. Complex. Vortex taking me down. Many explanations, excuses and I find myself falling into a state of unbelief and fear. I am disillusioned with life.

1 Samuel 24: David and Saul. He was in the cave with Saul and he said “I cannot touch the Lord’s anointed.”
Then comes 1 Samuel 25 and 26: Very much the same. I will not touch the Lord’s anointed. But his problem wasn’t really there.

1 Samuel 25: is the story of a wicked man and his name was Nabal.
I will not touch the Lord’s anointed. I will have respect for God and his work. But when it comes to an evil man, he gets my goad. He really gets me. When it comes to a man that has no respect for the things of God. …it bothered “David”

Psalm 37: …We are holy and when you are in the world it is very possible for us to react and in our hearts, even resent and maybe even just say words like, “It’s not fair, why did that happen to me, I don’t like that. Look at that guy, he doesn’t even believe in God and he is prospering”

I was thinking about this that, without God I will believe the lie and the lie will get me [edit: Here we go again.]

(preaching on Nabal, David and Abigail)
Timestamp36:
Let God take care of the fool. Let God take care of the wicked. Let God take care of the evil. You will not be disillusioned when you follow God in His way. When you’re meek and humble and you’re embracing what God is saying to you it’s the same about, you know the kind of buzz that maybe out there about the, the uh, um the sex um, the predator, uh, that the case that happened 16 or 17 years ago with our church, there’ll be a buzz but let that be, that is, I am not interested in it actually. Like what are people saying or what are their, their opinions. I’m interested in a deeper issue. I’m interested in truth. I’m interested in love. I’m interested in God’s presence, God’s ways. Do not envy or fret regarding evil people. And I’m not saying, I don’t know anything about that, the uh buzz or the reaction to uh, but I do know, that I do know and I realize that many of you are in a working place…I believe that God will put me right in a situation and I believe that he is preparing me to get bigger than this kind of small thinking of killing Nabal.

I don’t believe that anybody here is thinking about murdering anybody. (laughs, long pause. Apparently somebody said something in the back) We can all imagine what that joke was back there. (Schaller laughs again) Maybe you ARE thinking about it.
We’ll never be disillusioned with Him (God). We’ll never be disappointed with Him. We’ll never be disappointed with God’s ways…we are tempted to take it in our own hands look for justice
There is civil justice, there is the now justice that can happen, there is the postponed justice. It’s coming. Don’t hold your breath…and then there is the ultimate justice (references the white throne judgment)
"Your time will come. You will face the same evil, and you will defeat it."
Reply
Like

out and about
Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2008, 04:55

06 Nov 2013, 01:26 #4

I watched a part of it and he was joking around at the beginning, making references to the plant in front of the podium.

"I want to have a little fun before we get started"....

What a waste of time. I understand he probably threw in some "comic relief" to lighten the mood after they discussed the events of last Friday, but seriously??!! :blink:

Very dangerous indeed
Reply
Like

Lankenau
MODERATOR
Lankenau
MODERATOR
Joined: 16 Oct 2013, 01:15

06 Nov 2013, 01:45 #5

It is disturbing, epistula. More so for us exer's. I think normal Christians will just walk away shaking their head because the message is so disjointed, rambling with no clear point. This is my take on it: Apparently there are only 2 categories of people: us and the wicked. And apparently the wicked is anyone not with "us" currently. This contradicts the whole grace message. The once saved always saved. "Us" is holy and anointed. Them (the wicked not currently with us) will believe the lie. The lie? Well, in this message Tom referenced the lie and the statement that followed referenced the sexual child abuse case. He does not clarify what the lie is except sex, predator, the buzz. Wow. Shutter. As an exer, that was the bamm to the back the head. The wicked are talking about it. It is what makes them wicked. They are "talking." Us people, the anointed should not talk about it or the "us" will become one of the wicked. Stop talking us people, stop thinking at all, live on the higher plane. Youth leaders, pastors having sex with children should not be talked about. I shutter writing this as it kept me in BS/GGWO way too long. I was a faithful "Us" and now I am among the wicked. Thank you Jesus.
Reply
Like

sidethorn
Advanced Member
sidethorn
Advanced Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2006, 00:08

06 Nov 2013, 02:47 #6

I think, therefore I am wicked.
I'm out of GGWO, therefore I am out of Gawd's will.
I don't blindly believe in the pastor, I have a rebellious spirit.

Such are the viewpoints of the only true church of Gawd in these times.

Schaller is not serious in dealing with this sex abuse problem at all. He wants this whole matter buried and not talked about anymore. He also wants to re-establish as much of the status quo as he can as quickly as possible. Now how can the GGWO youth ministry possibly be a safe place for kids, really?
Reply
Like

legalwriter
Advanced Member
legalwriter
Advanced Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2013, 03:06

06 Nov 2013, 03:13 #7

I guess I'm one of the "wicked ones" that chose to seek our justice for being RAPED in the here and now instead of waiting for G-d to take care of it for us. I'm not surprised that he's not "interested" in it, either. He wasn't interested then, I'm not holding my breath that he'll suddenly grow a conscience.

I'm gonna accept this as his response to my charges.

I'll see you in HELL, "Pastor" Schaller!!

Oh, wait! No, I won't!! I left your god's perfect geographical will for me...there is no more hell. At least not for me!!!
Jennifer Lang, J.D.

Founder of Esther's Garden, a safe place where survivors of abuse - child, sexual, emotional, physical and institutoinal - can tell their stories, access recovery resources and begin rebuilding their lives on a firm foundation, free of abuse.
Reply
Like

epistula
Advanced Member
epistula
Advanced Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2006, 15:40

06 Nov 2013, 04:34 #8

I agree, Lankenau. If you belong to GG you are holy. If you used to belong, you are evil.

What I pulled from this message was the usual: Think with our version of God's truths. Do not touch God's anointed, their pastors or anyone with a title in GG.

By saying that he did not care about the "buzz", he was trying to deflate anyone's natural, normal interest and concern. I'm pretty sure he really does care about not only the "buzz", but the actual truth/deceit that they've been shoveling around for years from one desk to another.

In the message from October he also said he didn't care about people posting their garbage on social networks. But he sure admonished everyone about not spreading gossip and seemed quite animated/heated.

And the reference to murder coupled with the carefree laughter was very indicative as to how they treat real world problems. But my fear is, with all the unstable "believers" down there that one could actually misconstrue Tom's words and take it as an order. It's just a fear but I do wonder what the rap subject was after service, if they still have those.

Who does that? Who preaches like that? It was insulting and beneath even him.
"Your time will come. You will face the same evil, and you will defeat it."
Reply
Like

kml010207
MODERATOR
kml010207
MODERATOR
Joined: 03 Nov 2013, 07:33

06 Nov 2013, 05:52 #9

@Epistula
You are not the only one who had those same fears after hearing the message from Sunday night. I am too worried that someone will decide to cut out the wicked that are spreading these "lies" about their "untouchable anointed". Who know what that joke that was made was, or who even said it, but the comment "maybe you are thinking about it" made me sick to my stomach. I pray for the safety of all the victims and truth speakers.
Reply
Like

JimKennedy
Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2013, 13:53

06 Nov 2013, 13:53 #10

It's the No Talk Rule. Typical and predictable tactic used by GGWO and all high control religious groups.

If you're filling a seat at GG now more than ever is the time to investigate what's going on, look up on line resources, and talk about it among yourselves.
Reply
Like