Grace Hour 17

Commentary and Opinions

Grace Hour 17

hodeuon
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Joined: 22 Apr 2005, 19:19

06 Jan 2009, 15:59 #1

The Grace Hour
Tuesday, January 6, 2009

Host: John Love

JL says David Frankenhauser was taken home to by with the Lord yesterday.

Finished Work Club offer

Carl’s taped sermon: “The Kingdom of Humility and the Laws of Sowing and Reaping”, part II

Carl states there are five areas of sowing & reaping in the Bible.

The first one is “be merciful”. Carl cites Luke 6:37-38.

Carl states that mercy erases the effects of all our sins. He alleges grace takes care of sin and mercy takes care of the effects of sin.

Commentary: Carl’s verse citations do not support this incorrect interpretation. The rest of Christianity usually definces grace as God giving us good that we don’t deserve and mercy as withholding bad that we do deserve. Not for the first time, Carl’s sloppy definitions of the attributes of God get him in trouble. Carl’s flawed understanding here allows him to conclude that if you have any remaining effects of past sins, it’s your fault. No doubt this saved him much time in counseling.

There’s a rabbit trail while Carl denounces people for judging. He says it’s none of your business. He says God commands us never to judge.

Commentary: This is not true. In 1 Corinthians, Paul commands the Corinthian church to judge those inside the Church.

“Never pronounce anyone guilty. Except the pastor dealing with the congregation or the executive dealing with his employees. These are just administrative judgments.”

Commentary: And that is how Carl Stevens stayed in power.

Carl cites someone else as claiming that a certain point is taught by only 400 ministries worldwide.

Commentary: Five minutes ago Carl said never to judge unless you had omnipotent knowledge. There is *no*possible*way* someone can know that only 400 ministries teach something. Tell me what percentage of the Chinese churches do or don’t teach somet5hing. At best you would be taking a shot in the dark. For that matter, I strongly doubt that Carl Stevens or anyone else could supply us with a definitive list of all the ministries in the city of Baltimore, much less their doctrinal positions.

Carl says that millions of Christians are reaping what they’ve sown because although they’re saved they haven’t accepted God’s mercy.

Carl again states that mercy removes all of the effects of sin. He calls people who still have effects of sin proud for refusing mercy and rebukes people for judging without having omnipotent knowledge.

Commentary: It blows my mind how Carl can yell at people for judging others, state their presumed motives – which he can’t possibly know – and have everyone just sit there and take it.

Call-in: John Love

John Love states that David Frankenhauser was a colonel in the US Army & had served 25 years. He says many people would consider his death an accident but that there are no accidents in God’s timing.

Commentary: I would like to suggest that there is a difference between God not stopping something from happening and actively making it happen.

John Love summarizes & endorses the sermon.

John Love says that if we don’t distribute the mercy we received from God, then He will judge us, just not positionally.

Commentary: There is a contradiction here because Carl said that people who judge hadn’t accepted God’s mercy. John Love says that they have received it. It’s not surprising there are differences here because this GGWO doctrine is founded on a misunderstanding of the attributes of God.

John Love introduces Steve Andrulonis.

John Love and Andrulonis talk about not judging others some more.

Caller: Matthew, Massachusetts – endorses what they’ve just said, asks about where self-protection fits in

Steve Scibelli answers. He says Jesus didn’t defend Himself. Scibelli acknowledges that situations are unique.

Commentary: Carl, by contrast, had a squad of armed men around the parsonage in Wiscasset in 1972.

Commentary: Jesus intended to suffer for what He hadn’t done. He did not tell us that this was to be normative for the Christian’s life.

Scibelli talks about sowing godly friendships. “I realized that only acquaintances left. Friends never did.”

Commentary: Saying that requires editing the past, doesn’t it?

Scibelli says Christianity is so impersonal & superficial today.

Commentary: You’ve just defined any friendship that ends as only having been an acquaintance in the first place, and you’re calling the rest of Christianity superficial?

Scibelli says you have friendship with God, with other ministers, with the body, and with the unsaved.

Commentary: 1) Doesn’t that last category just turn out to have been acquaintances most of the time? Or doesn’t consistency matter?
2) Scibelli thinks of ministers as of higher priority than mere members of the body.

Caller: Gloria, Boston – asks if it’s judging to tell someone to stop lying when you know they’re lying

Andrulonis: You did it privately, right? If so you did it biblically.

Commentary: Well, it’s not private now, right?

Scibelli: “You’re saying something about what she’s doing. You’re not attacking her character.”

Commentary: I don’t know how the hosts could possibly have enough information to say this was handled rightly or wrongly.

They talk about not labeling the person.

Caller: Ellen, Massachusetts

John Love asks Jerry to call back tomorrow.

Funding appeal

Total calls: 3
GGers: 1-2
Outsiders: 1-2

Hodeuon
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hodeuon
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Joined: 22 Apr 2005, 19:19

09 Jan 2009, 15:59 #2

The Grace Hour
Friday, January 09, 2009

Host: John Love

Finished Work Club offer: 3 Carl sermons from various New Year’s Eves; 1 of them is on coverings

Schaller’s taped sermon: “Turning the Tables in Soulwinning”
John Love says this was preached quite a while ago.

Commentary: This doesn’t sound like Schaller. It’s got the slight echoing effect of an old tape. He is speaking very cogently and comfortably cites Josh McDowell, Frank Morrison, and CS Lewis. He pauses to recall things but doesn’t use stalling words like ‘um’. He has numbered points – very GGWO, but not how I’ve heard Schaller preach in the last couple years.

Commentary: This sermon is about apologetics, putting forward reasons to believe & countering reasons people give for not believing.

Commentary: As I kept listening, I picked up on some Schaller mannerisms. He discussed evidence for the Bible’s reliability, relating information about the Isaiah scroll from the Dead Sea Scrolls. There’s just much more actual information than I’m used to hearing from Schaller.

Music starts & a voiceover (Bruce Wright) announces how you can get the full sermon.

Commercial for Maryland Bible College

Call-in: John Love

JL says that was indeed Schaller & notes his voice did sound different.

JL encourages people to go to MBC.

Caller: Karen, Illinois – lost the call

Schaller comes in.

They get Karen back on the phone.

Found a local church, doctrinal statement was fine, but found differences when taking the membership class; church is more Calvinistic than the doctrinal statement suggested; caller believes election is based on foreknowledge

Schaller agrees with her and cites 1 Peter 1:2. He says election is based on foreknowledge of free will.

Commentary: I would say election is based on foreknowledge of the person, not foreknowledge of free will.

Schaller points out that teaching election doesn’t mean they don’t also teach free will.

Commentary: I’ve heard people do much worse handling this.

Caller says the church says election isn’t something to break fellowship over. Schaller agrees.

John Love asks if they believe in evangelism. Yes. Caller describes them as similar to GGWO in that respect. JL says that hyperCalvinists frequently don’t believe in evangelism.

Schaller asks her to stay in touch.

Caller: Matt LaFlammer, calling from Finland – Bible study just got out, they’re going out to evangelize, decide to call in & report

Schaller says he met with men at Panera this morning. He spoke on spiritual imagination, imagining being a pastor or missionary before becoming one.

Schaller talks about the Florida quarterback as a really good example. John Love brings up Dwight Howard, an NBA player. Schaller adds information from the internet.

Commentary: Ok, they’ve got internet in the broadcasting booth.

Funding appeal

Total calls: 2
GGers: 2

Hodeuon
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hodeuon
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Joined: 22 Apr 2005, 19:19

03 Mar 2009, 16:00 #3

The Grace Hour
Tuesday, March 3, 2009

Host: John Love
His introduction hasn’t changed any.

This week’s subject is emotions. John Love says emotions can be very dangerous but also a great blessing to believers.

Finished Work Club offer: A W Tozer book _The Pursuit of God_, Carl Stevens sermon “The Treasure and Reverence of God”
They’re calling this “The Pursuit of God Package”.

John Love reads Psalm 130:3. “If You, Lord, should mark iniquity who should stand?”

Carl’s taped sermon: “How to Operate in Faith Without Emotional Support”
Carl starts by saying love is not first a feeling.
Carl points out that saying “I want to love so-and-so but I can’t” is a silly thing to say.

Carl states that couples would not divorce if they understood the difference between infatuation and love.

Carl emphasizes the will over the emotions.

Carl says that Satan uses relationships and emotions to sap us. He mentions projections & other GGWO buzzwords.

Commentary: Carl had some good points in this sermon. He also had his usual elevation of mind and will over emotions.

Call-in segment: John Love, Tom Schaller

Guests: Carl and Kathy Bass (sp?), from Reality Outreach – They’re putting on the drama Heaven’s Gates and Hell’s Flames, at GGWO.

They talk about the production.

Schaller says that there are 87 cities in the US of over a million people. He asks Carl how many he has been to and asks what he thinks of the state of the ministry in the US.

Schaller states that the founding pastor set them straight on the road. He rattles off his own catch-phrases.

Caller: Barbara, Louisiana – She says it’s been a long time. John Love recognizes her.

Caller: Arlen (sp?), Baltimore – testimony from first night of Heaven’s Gates, Hell’s Flame


Total calls: 2
GGers: Evidently both

Hodeuon
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hodeuon
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Joined: 22 Apr 2005, 19:19

09 Mar 2009, 14:59 #4

The Grace Hour
Monday, March 9, 2009

Host: John Love

This week’s theme: Forgiveness

Finished Work Club offer

Taped Carl sermon: “The Doctrine of Forgiveness”

Carl starts out with 2 Corinthians 2:6. He alleges that the man in question “instantly got right” and the other Corinthian believers refused to forgive him. Carl states that the church disciplined him after Paul wrote.

Commentary: If it’s the man Paul wrote about (and I believe that is the majority opinion here), then there is no basis for saying “instantly”. Carl is making stuff up. Again.

Carl states that at this time the Corinthian church didn’t have a pastor-teacher.

Commentary: I find it interesting that Acts and the Epistles do not name the pastor-teachers of the various local churches. There is very little about internal structure.

Carl says there are two things that the Corinthian church knew nothing about. The first was the doctrine of eternal decree.

Commentary: Does he seriously think that after Paul’s 18-month ministry in AD 50-51, Apollos’ ministry, a possible visit by Peter, and communication back & forth with Paul up through the writing of 2 Corinthians in about AD 57 (including separate visits by Paul, Timothy, and Titus), that key doctrines just didn’t come up?

Carl: “When someone dies and goes home to be with the Lord, that’s God’s perfect plan.”

Commentary: I know this is indeed the view of a majority of Christians. Or at least it’s the view that gets stated at a lot of Christian funerals. But God also says that it’s His will that no one should perish (2 Peter 3:9). Obviously not everyone gets saved, so at some level God is willing to have His plans for people frustrated. (Not that that comes as any sort of surprise to Him.)

Carl: “Often Christians get 15 people involved in something…and it frustrates the grace of God in His plan.”

Commentary: So Christians can mess up God’s plan? Even though every time somebody dies, that was in accordance with God’s plan? C’mon – one or the other.

Carl gets sidetracked on various language helps. The net result is to make Carl look good and the language resources bad.

Carl alleges that forgiveness means treating someone as if he/she had never sinned. He states there is not to be any probation.

Commentary: I find Carl’s arguments unconvincing. They rely heavily on Carl’s authority and a lot of razzle-dazzle with selective verses rather than on a solidly reasoned argument.


Call-in segment: John Love, Bruce Wright

Wright talks about Christian who feel guilty “not because they’ve done something wrong but even after they’ve been forgiven”.

Commentary: This is a great illustration of GGWO’s teaching that once something is forgiven, it never happened. That’s not what the Bible teaches. Once your sins are forgiven, they’re never counted against you. That doesn’t retroactively change history. God does overcome them, although you may experience great struggle. You might even slow down that process by working against what God is doing in your life. But forgiven doesn’t mean “that never happened”.

Schaller begins speaking. I guessed he just walked in.

(missed a few minutes)

Wright and John Love talk about how forgiveness is unconditional.

Commentary: Good.

Caller: BJ, Maine – lost the call

Caller: Harmon (sp?), Baltimore

BJ calls back.

Bruce Wright summarizes GGWO’s teaching on forgiveness as “spiritual amnesia”.

They ask Delores to call back tomorrow.

John Love prays for Pastor Drew (?) who had a liver transplant.

Total calls: 2
GGers: 2

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hodeuon
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Joined: 22 Apr 2005, 19:19

15 Sep 2010, 14:57 #5

The Grace Hour
Wednesday, September 15, 2010

Missed the first five minutes
Intro – Andrulonis?
Talked about not judging, lead in to sermon about not worrying about details

Sermon: Carl Stevens
“Living in Doctrine Not Details to Control Your Soul”

“Think of wisdom as Bible doctrine but Bible doctrine kept by the Living Word, Jesus Christ, in us.”
Carl states that people are either walking in wisdom or in human deception.

“Anybody who is bitter and remains bitter is lying against the Church.”
Carl said he had sources for this. He did not say what they were.
He’s wrong. You cannot just redefine words like that.

Later Carl says, “Anyone who doesn’t forgive with divine forgiveness is lying against…” the truth of God’s forgiveness. (Not sure of the exact wording at the end)
This is a true statement, stated in a provocative way. You can see how once you start talking like this, you can slide into statements like the above, where it’s still provocative but no longer true.

Carl talks about the “five parts of the soul”.

“Sensuality here doesn’t mean sexuality but living in empiricism.”

Call-in: Hadley and Andrulonis?

Something came up at 10:37, so this is as much as I got.
I got back briefly at 10:40 and heard Schaller speaking.
Got back briefly again at 10:43 to hear them go to the first call.

Summary: It’s been 18 months, and The Grace Hour is pretty much the same.

Hodeuon
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hodeuon
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Joined: 22 Apr 2005, 19:19

16 Sep 2010, 15:00 #6

The Grace Hour
Thursday, September 16, 2010

Intro: Steve Andrulonis

“We’ve continue this radio outreach for several decades.”
Commentary: Fair enough.

Live devotional: Tom Schaller
They talk about the crowd Wednesday night.

The devotional is about Abraham in Egypt. It goes to around 10:20. Schaller and Andrulonis discuss afterwards.

Andrulonis gives a second plug for John Love speaking in Marlborough.

Caller (10:28): Viola, New Orleans – asks about “I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy.” She asks if God chooses whom to have mercy on. Schaller uses an illustration of the sun heating two substances with differing results & says that when God acts on a person in some cases it softens people and sometimes it hardens people.

Commentary: It’s essentially a question about election. Schaller gave a typical non-Calvinist answer. The illustration is interesting. I’ve heard worse answers.

Caller: Karen Collins calls from Peru, puts David Wileczek on the line, reports on the missions trip there

Caller: John in Florida: asks about the term ‘Holy Ghost’
Andrulonis answers. He says that ghost and spirit were interchangeable terms in 1611 when the King James Version was made.

Commentary: He got most of it straight.

Another Marlborough plug

Caller: Jerry, Montreal – tying together Schaller’s comment yesterday (?) against passivity with Ravi Zacharias’s comments on Christians’ involvement with society, Jerry wonders if the Church is too passive / complacent about morality
Schaller says that while he doesn’t have information on the whole population, some compromises are obvious. Schaller agrees with Jerry.
Jerry gives a pathway to get to a couple of Ravi Zacharias’s sermons.

Caller: Jeff, Baltimore – What happens to the earth at the White Throne Judgment? Has heard about heaven & found passages that there’s a new earth, too.
Schaller answers.

Caller: missed his name, calling from Paris
Schaller sends greetings to GGers in France.

They ask Berry to call back tomorrow with a question about the Trinity.

Commentary: 6 calls, 4 GGers (1 GGer overseas, 1 missions trip, and two people who apparently still call frequently), 2 unknown

Hodeuon
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hodeuon
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Joined: 22 Apr 2005, 19:19

19 Apr 2012, 15:00 #7

The Grace Hour
Thursday, April 19, 2012

Host: John Love
Today is a special live broadcast. Tomorrow will be live from Marlborough.

Today's topic is Christian education.

Special guests: Brian Lange and GGCA principal Dan Dunbar

Lange specifies that Christian education is education about Christ. He refers to reading, writing, and arithmetic as abstract knowledge.

Commentary: Obviously "abstract knowledge" is a technical term for him.

Lange gave the message and used Proverbs 1:2-4 as a springboard.

Five priorities:
1. Church attendance as a priority.
2. Love God's people
3. Living in contentment and not complaining

Asks John Love to explain how the Finished Work gives us contentment.
Love does so, giving a short Gospel presentation.

4. (I missed this one)
5. The Bible becomes a priority.

Commentary: Lange uses a lot of GGWO buzzwords: "receive", "fresh", etc.

Call-in:

Lange asks Colleen Collins to come into the studio. She directs a Christian learning center for ages 2-4. She shares some ideas on teaching toddlers about God.

Lange asks Dan Dunbar a couple questions. He's been the GGCA principal for five years.

Dunbar doesn't think Christians should send their kids to public school.

Commentary: Lange has a good basic theme here that if parents don't teach their kids about (pick a topic), then TV & friends will teach them about that.

Caller: Bob, (missed the location), greets them with the Greek Easter greeting, not a GGer, in fact he sounds like he's Greek Orthodox; says he agrees with them some of the time, asks if God's grace covers people who are ignorant of Jesus
Lange: What we know for sure is that if someone hears the Gospel and believes in their heart, then they're saved. Takes David going to be with his child who died to mean that the child was saved, endorses the concept of an age of accountability, states that mercy does not cover everyone who hasn't heard

John Love summarizes

Commentary: Lange was politely disagreeing with the caller.

Caller: Joanie, Indiana - talks about Christian education, there are Greenfield and Lebanon GGWO churches in her area; she is a long-time listener, "placing ourselves under [Schaller's] teaching", church is playing Schaller's Sunday sermons on Wednesday nights

Email: from Marlborough MA - Christian education

John Love talks about the Grace Hour banquet.
Grace Hour is leaving Spirit 1400 in Baltimore later this month.


Two calls, one email
Two GGers, one outsider


Hodeuon

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