The Grace Hour
Tuesday, January 6, 2009
Host: John Love
JL says David Frankenhauser was taken home to by with the Lord yesterday.
Finished Work Club offer
Carl’s taped sermon: “The Kingdom of Humility and the Laws of Sowing and Reaping”, part II
Carl states there are five areas of sowing & reaping in the Bible.
The first one is “be merciful”. Carl cites Luke 6:37-38.
Carl states that mercy erases the effects of all our sins. He alleges grace takes care of sin and mercy takes care of the effects of sin.
Commentary: Carl’s verse citations do not support this incorrect interpretation. The rest of Christianity usually definces grace as God giving us good that we don’t deserve and mercy as withholding bad that we do deserve. Not for the first time, Carl’s sloppy definitions of the attributes of God get him in trouble. Carl’s flawed understanding here allows him to conclude that if you have any remaining effects of past sins, it’s your fault. No doubt this saved him much time in counseling.
There’s a rabbit trail while Carl denounces people for judging. He says it’s none of your business. He says God commands us never to judge.
Commentary: This is not true. In 1 Corinthians, Paul commands the Corinthian church to judge those inside the Church.
“Never pronounce anyone guilty. Except the pastor dealing with the congregation or the executive dealing with his employees. These are just administrative judgments.”
Commentary: And that is how Carl Stevens stayed in power.
Carl cites someone else as claiming that a certain point is taught by only 400 ministries worldwide.
Commentary: Five minutes ago Carl said never to judge unless you had omnipotent knowledge. There is *no*possible*way* someone can know that only 400 ministries teach something. Tell me what percentage of the Chinese churches do or don’t teach somet5hing. At best you would be taking a shot in the dark. For that matter, I strongly doubt that Carl Stevens or anyone else could supply us with a definitive list of all the ministries in the city of Baltimore, much less their doctrinal positions.
Carl says that millions of Christians are reaping what they’ve sown because although they’re saved they haven’t accepted God’s mercy.
Carl again states that mercy removes all of the effects of sin. He calls people who still have effects of sin proud for refusing mercy and rebukes people for judging without having omnipotent knowledge.
Commentary: It blows my mind how Carl can yell at people for judging others, state their presumed motives – which he can’t possibly know – and have everyone just sit there and take it.
Call-in: John Love
John Love states that David Frankenhauser was a colonel in the US Army & had served 25 years. He says many people would consider his death an accident but that there are no accidents in God’s timing.
Commentary: I would like to suggest that there is a difference between God not stopping something from happening and actively making it happen.
John Love summarizes & endorses the sermon.
John Love says that if we don’t distribute the mercy we received from God, then He will judge us, just not positionally.
Commentary: There is a contradiction here because Carl said that people who judge hadn’t accepted God’s mercy. John Love says that they have received it. It’s not surprising there are differences here because this GGWO doctrine is founded on a misunderstanding of the attributes of God.
John Love introduces Steve Andrulonis.
John Love and Andrulonis talk about not judging others some more.
Caller: Matthew, Massachusetts – endorses what they’ve just said, asks about where self-protection fits in
Steve Scibelli answers. He says Jesus didn’t defend Himself. Scibelli acknowledges that situations are unique.
Commentary: Carl, by contrast, had a squad of armed men around the parsonage in Wiscasset in 1972.
Commentary: Jesus intended to suffer for what He hadn’t done. He did not tell us that this was to be normative for the Christian’s life.
Scibelli talks about sowing godly friendships. “I realized that only acquaintances left. Friends never did.”
Commentary: Saying that requires editing the past, doesn’t it?
Scibelli says Christianity is so impersonal & superficial today.
Commentary: You’ve just defined any friendship that ends as only having been an acquaintance in the first place, and you’re calling the rest of Christianity superficial?
Scibelli says you have friendship with God, with other ministers, with the body, and with the unsaved.
Commentary: 1) Doesn’t that last category just turn out to have been acquaintances most of the time? Or doesn’t consistency matter?
2) Scibelli thinks of ministers as of higher priority than mere members of the body.
Caller: Gloria, Boston – asks if it’s judging to tell someone to stop lying when you know they’re lying
Andrulonis: You did it privately, right? If so you did it biblically.
Commentary: Well, it’s not private now, right?
Scibelli: “You’re saying something about what she’s doing. You’re not attacking her character.”
Commentary: I don’t know how the hosts could possibly have enough information to say this was handled rightly or wrongly.
They talk about not labeling the person.
Caller: Ellen, Massachusetts
John Love asks Jerry to call back tomorrow.
Total calls: 3
The Grace Hour
Friday, January 09, 2009
Host: John Love
Finished Work Club offer: 3 Carl sermons from various New Year’s Eves; 1 of them is on coverings
Schaller’s taped sermon: “Turning the Tables in Soulwinning”
John Love says this was preached quite a while ago.
Commentary: This doesn’t sound like Schaller. It’s got the slight echoing effect of an old tape. He is speaking very cogently and comfortably cites Josh McDowell, Frank Morrison, and CS Lewis. He pauses to recall things but doesn’t use stalling words like ‘um’. He has numbered points – very GGWO, but not how I’ve heard Schaller preach in the last couple years.
Commentary: This sermon is about apologetics, putting forward reasons to believe & countering reasons people give for not believing.
Commentary: As I kept listening, I picked up on some Schaller mannerisms. He discussed evidence for the Bible’s reliability, relating information about the Isaiah scroll from the Dead Sea Scrolls. There’s just much more actual information than I’m used to hearing from Schaller.
Music starts & a voiceover (Bruce Wright) announces how you can get the full sermon.
Commercial for Maryland Bible College
Call-in: John Love
JL says that was indeed Schaller & notes his voice did sound different.
JL encourages people to go to MBC.
Caller: Karen, Illinois – lost the call
Schaller comes in.
They get Karen back on the phone.
Found a local church, doctrinal statement was fine, but found differences when taking the membership class; church is more Calvinistic than the doctrinal statement suggested; caller believes election is based on foreknowledge
Schaller agrees with her and cites 1 Peter 1:2. He says election is based on foreknowledge of free will.
Commentary: I would say election is based on foreknowledge of the person, not foreknowledge of free will.
Schaller points out that teaching election doesn’t mean they don’t also teach free will.
Commentary: I’ve heard people do much worse handling this.
Caller says the church says election isn’t something to break fellowship over. Schaller agrees.
John Love asks if they believe in evangelism. Yes. Caller describes them as similar to GGWO in that respect. JL says that hyperCalvinists frequently don’t believe in evangelism.
Schaller asks her to stay in touch.
Caller: Matt LaFlammer, calling from Finland – Bible study just got out, they’re going out to evangelize, decide to call in & report
Schaller says he met with men at Panera this morning. He spoke on spiritual imagination, imagining being a pastor or missionary before becoming one.
Schaller talks about the Florida quarterback as a really good example. John Love brings up Dwight Howard, an NBA player. Schaller adds information from the internet.
Commentary: Ok, they’ve got internet in the broadcasting booth.
Total calls: 2