SPJoeG
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SPJoeG
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Joined: 11:47 AM - Dec 08, 2016

9:00 AM - Oct 10, 2018 #11

KMac4 wrote: Thanks for the response @SPJoeG
I know there's some unhealthy feelings tied in with being worried about having a third child right now. Like I JUST had a baby. But it's the sadness of the possibility of it being all for the last time... that I'll never be pregnant again, never have a newborn again, etc. It's hard because I so badly want to grow our family, just one more time. Being a mom is the most fulfilling thing I've ever done and I take raising little humans properly really seriously. And I'm not at the point of thinking we won't last so I'm not looking at it from the angle of having another kid whose parents don't have a good relationship. I still have hope that something will give and he'll regain some kind of joy in life... We also both grew up with single moms and are committed to not having our children grow up that way. But I've also seen relationships where they stay together for the kids and really everyone would have probably been better off if they didn't.
It's all just really sad to think about.
As far as getting a job, I will likely go back to waitressing a couple nights a week. I was doing this casually before getting pregnant with our second and was able to bring in quite a bit of extra income. We're not broke, we just don't have a lot for extras and we live modestly.
I do plan on continuing to see the therapist. I've gone a couple of times since our second was born and will keep it up. I'm trying to encourage him to try a different one but he basically feels like he did this as a favour to me/to get me off his back to begin with as he's seen therapists in the past and they've done nothing for him, as he puts it.

Unrelated but since I'm here, how do you properly @ somebody on this forum?
You just type @ and then begin typing user names will come up in an autocomplete drop down.


I have 8yo twins, and frankly 4 was my favorite age, but having two infants at a time was rough.  I love being a Dad, and at this stage of my children's life it is not only as you say the most fulfilling thing I have ever done, it is the most fun thing as well.  Last night I was at soccer practice with my Son, and tonight I take my Daughter to her soccer practice - There is nowhere else I'd rather be than at those practices.  My best friend is a Chef and he owns a few restaurants and has a young family, so I know how hard it is to balance that career with a family.

You and your Husband are young, and that is reason in and of itself to be hopeful.  As your children get older your Husband could become more interested in them and then want to have another child too.  I can't diagnose your husband, and his behavior could be related to depression, immaturity, and whole host of other things.  Depending on what it is things could get better on their own, but you should be prepared that things could very well get worse.

Co-Parenting with a depressed partner is hard but not impossible.  Kids need structure and stability, which is difficult for a depressed parent to provide so this is one of several areas you will need to step up and take on more than your fare share. Along with the challenges though you really have a lot of fun times ahead whether you have 1 or 10 kids.  Don't try and convince or push your husband in to having more kids, whatever the cause he seems to be struggling with fatherhood right now.  I hope for all of your sakes, but his first and foremost that he finds the joy we have in being a parent.

Joe
Last edited by SPJoeG on 8:43 AM - Oct 11, 2018, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: 10:43 PM - Mar 10, 2015

11:41 AM - Oct 10, 2018 #12

KMac4,

I'm so heartbroken to read your story. All I can say is I am living a similar life. Your husband sounds a lot like mine. We don't have children and I work full time, but other than that, your experience is much like my own. 

If you want to chat through DM, feel free to reach out to me. All I can tell you is that I, too, feel anxious being around my husband because of his constant negativity and self-absorption. And I can also tell you that this has been going on for five years now. If I had a time machine, I would go back to year 1 and do things differently. Living next to an active volcano can be dangerous . . . 

Hugs,
Thinking
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vin123456
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Joined: 6:05 PM - Nov 23, 2006

2:27 PM - Oct 10, 2018 #13

Not only is there no positivity in repeating the interests of the SO, there is no positivity in repeating the interests of anything ever done. The evidence is strong that eventually there will be joy and this joy will not be extracted out of stuff previously done. If the SO makes a list of stuff previously done and how it developed and the stuff being done now and how it develops they will see their partner is specifically selecting a theme and is unable to expand this theme into the life they had and once shared with the SO. Whereas the SO can move on and report back to them how happy they are overall in life, all they can do is to report back how happy they are in terms of the theme they are following. There's no point in accusing them of not listening if they cannot see the entirety of the issue. 
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Nancy42
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Nancy42
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6:35 PM - Oct 10, 2018 #14

The potential emotional damage this man can do to his children with his negative ways and never feeling satisfied or fulfilled..... It's quite a worry. Please read my old posts and you will know I speak from experience. I would have an exit plan. I used to keep a bag in my boot for me and my son with enough cash for a night at a hotel. I also kept my keys close by. I never needed it but it brought me great comfort to know I didn't have to put up with this, that I had a choice. The constant shielding your children from the worst of negative comments, making light of them, interpreting them in a different light so that they don't get crushed.... Was exhausting for me, more so as he got older. If he doesn't do much, perhaps don't do it at all? Go to that mum's coffee morning, take a packed lunch out.... Look after number one.
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Wash
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Wash
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8:12 PM - Oct 10, 2018 #15

thestrongone wrote: You mention him regaining joy, but did he ever actually have it?  To me it sounds like he is a narcissist and narcissists pretty much never change (I personally think narcissism is a coping mechanism for some people with depression).  Do some research on the topic and, if it the description fits your husband then I suggest you take a hard look at whether you can tolerate living like this for the rest of your life.  If not, create an exit plan.

As for a 3rd child, you're fears about never being pregnant again might come true but since your husband is basically just a sperm donor at this point then you could always go and get an actual sperm donor.  Or find someone new that doesn't treat you like crap and have a child with them.  
Depression is a mood disorder, narcissism is a personality disorder. They may share some traits that lead to similar behaviours but are very different.

Biggest difference being depression comes on at any age, can be treated, comes and goes in episodes (or just waxes and wanes). 
Narcissism develops in childhood, its permanent and none treatable. Narcissists are 100% rational.
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Wash
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Wash
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8:22 PM - Oct 10, 2018 #16

Nancy42 wrote: The potential emotional damage this man can do to his children with his negative ways and never feeling satisfied or fulfilled..... It's quite a worry.   Please read my old posts and you will know I speak from experience.      I would have an exit plan. I used to keep a bag in my boot for me and my son with enough  cash for a night at a hotel.    I also  kept my keys close by.    I never needed it but it brought me great comfort to know I didn't have to put up with this, that I had a choice.     The constant shielding your children from the worst of negative comments, making light of them,  interpreting them in a different light so that they don't get crushed.... Was exhausting for me, more so as he got older.       If he doesn't do much, perhaps don't do it at all? Go to that mum's coffee morning, take a packed lunch out.... Look after number one.
Yeah this is a good idea I used to keep a bag in the hall with £200 in it and carried a mobile phone round the home (didn't have one for years).

Tbh I don't think that guy is going to stick around anyway, he's probably got some age in mind that his kids need to be in order for him to run off without feeling ashamed of abandoning the family.
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thestrongone
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Joined: 10:08 PM - Dec 07, 2014

8:04 AM - Oct 11, 2018 #17

Wash wrote:
thestrongone wrote: You mention him regaining joy, but did he ever actually have it?  To me it sounds like he is a narcissist and narcissists pretty much never change (I personally think narcissism is a coping mechanism for some people with depression).  Do some research on the topic and, if it the description fits your husband then I suggest you take a hard look at whether you can tolerate living like this for the rest of your life.  If not, create an exit plan.

As for a 3rd child, you're fears about never being pregnant again might come true but since your husband is basically just a sperm donor at this point then you could always go and get an actual sperm donor.  Or find someone new that doesn't treat you like crap and have a child with them.  
Depression is a mood disorder, narcissism is a personality disorder. They may share some traits that lead to similar behaviours but are very different.

Biggest difference being depression comes on at any age, can be treated, comes and goes in episodes (or just waxes and wanes). 
Narcissism develops in childhood, its permanent and none treatable. Narcissists are 100% rational.
Yes, I know they're two separate things.  My understanding is that personality disorders often arise as maladaptive coping skills and narcissism is usually caused by feelings of intense shame in childhood with shame/inadequacy also being one of the big triggers for depression.  Not all narcissists are depressed and not all depressed people are narcissists, but my completely anecdotal experience is that they often go hand in hand.

Narcissism is treatable, as are all personality disorders.  The problem is that narcissists almost never admit they have a problem so treatment won't work.
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KMac4
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Joined: 10:20 AM - Oct 09, 2018

10:51 AM - Oct 11, 2018 #18

I really appreciate everyone's responses. It's s little overwhelming for me to be recognizing how far things really have fallen.
About a month ago after a particularly nasty outburst from him, I asked him why he was even sticking around and responded that he'd never leave his kids, and honestly I feel similarly at this point. I love him and he loves me, but he's become unrecognizable to me at this point and I know I've changed after dealing with this for so long. I don't know where that leaves us though. Both committed to our family even though there's a wedge driving us further apart. It's like we're both just doing things out of obligation. He calls me on his way home from work and we have the exact same monotonous conversation that both of us are sick of. I find myself purposely going to bed before he gets home because the energy he brings in the house is just too heavy. We are genuinely uncomfortable around each other at this point. Even the way he walks exudes agitation- I didn't even know that was possible.
The one thing I can say in his defense is that he is a loving dad and he takes it seriously. It's just this cloud that's over him obviously carries over in every area of his life and fatherhood is not exempt.
I just keep waiting and hoping that he'll find some career that he loves and things will change and the person I knew will return, but I don't know how realistic that is. Deep down I have doubts that any career would change his outlook. If I'm honest I'm growing resentful of the fact that he doesn't seem to value our family enough to get a job that pays the bills and allows us time together as a family, and allows him time for his hobbies that bring him joy. I understand that everyone wants a fulfilling career but if you're doing nothing to work towards it then why not find your fulfillment in your hobbies and your family?
Anyway, I'm going to talk to the therapist on Monday because I feel like things are really slipping. Part of me wants to tell him to take a week off, go to his parents' house, go hunting with his stepdad, and come back with a better attitude. But the potential for that backfiring is pretty big- he's homesick for where we used to live as is, and I fear time away from work will just make him more bitter when he goes back. But a week apart would do us good.
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thestrongone
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Joined: 10:08 PM - Dec 07, 2014

11:17 AM - Oct 11, 2018 #19

KMac4 wrote:
About a month ago after a particularly nasty outburst from him, I asked him why he was even sticking around and responded that he'd never leave his kids, and honestly I feel similarly at this point. I love him and he loves me, but he's become unrecognizable to me at this point and I know I've changed after dealing with this for so long. I don't know where that leaves us though. Both committed to our family even though there's a wedge driving us further apart. It's like we're both just doing things out of obligation. He calls me on his way home from work and we have the exact same monotonous conversation that both of us are sick of. I find myself purposely going to bed before he gets home because the energy he brings in the house is just too heavy. We are genuinely uncomfortable around each other at this point. Even the way he walks exudes agitation- I didn't even know that was possible.
The one thing I can say in his defense is that he is a loving dad and he takes it seriously. It's just this cloud that's over him obviously carries over in every area of his life and fatherhood is not exempt.
That sounds so much like my husband it's ridiculous and he's on his downward spiral right now so it's getting worse and worse.  A constant state of tension in the house, a constant black cloud hanging over his head, monotone grumbling from him until he gets really annoyed and then sneering, or yelling, or snapping at me and my daughter.  I'm so tired of it.  I dread the weekends at the moment.  48 hours of being in the presence of someone so miserable.  Ugh.
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MrPeeBee
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Joined: 11:14 AM - Sep 03, 2018

7:18 PM - Oct 11, 2018 #20

KMac4 wrote: I really appreciate everyone's responses. It's s little overwhelming for me to be recognizing how far things really have fallen.
About a month ago after a particularly nasty outburst from him, I asked him why he was even sticking around and responded that he'd never leave his kids, and honestly I feel similarly at this point. I love him and he loves me, but he's become unrecognizable to me at this point and I know I've changed after dealing with this for so long. I don't know where that leaves us though. Both committed to our family even though there's a wedge driving us further apart. It's like we're both just doing things out of obligation. He calls me on his way home from work and we have the exact same monotonous conversation that both of us are sick of. I find myself purposely going to bed before he gets home because the energy he brings in the house is just too heavy. We are genuinely uncomfortable around each other at this point. Even the way he walks exudes agitation- I didn't even know that was possible.
The one thing I can say in his defense is that he is a loving dad and he takes it seriously. It's just this cloud that's over him obviously carries over in every area of his life and fatherhood is not exempt.
I just keep waiting and hoping that he'll find some career that he loves and things will change and the person I knew will return, but I don't know how realistic that is. Deep down I have doubts that any career would change his outlook. If I'm honest I'm growing resentful of the fact that he doesn't seem to value our family enough to get a job that pays the bills and allows us time together as a family, and allows him time for his hobbies that bring him joy. I understand that everyone wants a fulfilling career but if you're doing nothing to work towards it then why not find your fulfillment in your hobbies and your family?
Anyway, I'm going to talk to the therapist on Monday because I feel like things are really slipping. Part of me wants to tell him to take a week off, go to his parents' house, go hunting with his stepdad, and come back with a better attitude. But the potential for that backfiring is pretty big- he's homesick for where we used to live as is, and I fear time away from work will just make him more bitter when he goes back. But a week apart would do us good.
Hi @KMac4, good for you for going to your own therapy, and it sounds to me like a week apart might do some good. I mean, the alternative is a week at home doing the same stuff, and you feeling the same way. So even if he comes back in a bad mood...wasn't he already in a bad mood? OK, I guess it could be worse, but maybe worse helps crystallize where his head is at.


Lots of people have jobs they don't care for, but they do them anyway, and they have full, rich, happy lives and happy families. Or reasonably so. Depression is a different animal. It's not cured with a new job.

I'm glad to hear he's a loving dad, but I would like to point out that (if I'm not mistaken) you said in your original post that he's changed two diapers in two months? I don't doubt he loves your kids, but sometimes love is also doing messy work that you would rather not do. It's 2018, men change diapers.

Finally, and I hope it doesn't come to this for you guys, but families that are separate can still be families. You're not tied to him for the next 18 years, you being miserable the whole time, simply because you have kids. I'm in no way suggesting that you take any certain actions, it's not my place to give anyone advice...especially people I don't know and have never met. But a good (and hard) thing about this board is sometimes hearing things that can be tough to hear.

Good luck, thanks for hanging around!
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