Tires

Trae00
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Trae00
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Joined: January 8th, 2004, 6:05 am

October 27th, 2016, 2:07 pm #1

Ziggy Moonglow wrote:
Tires...   I have yet to find a good set of tires.  I've tried the T/A, IROC, Dissenter, stock car and they all have issues..  Every darned mod has different front and rear tires and in NASCAR, we all know the lefts and rights are different, but the same per side.
I've looked around a little bit in the VHR mod files, here's what I've found:
The .HDV file contains the following lines under [GENERAL] ...
TireBrand=CUP_tires
FrontTireCompoundSetting=0   
RearTireCompoundSetting=0 
And it has these under [PITMENU] ...
AllTires=0                            
FrontRearTires=(0,0)                 
LeftRightTires=(1,1)                
IndividualTires=(0,0,0,0)    
I'm assuming this is how you set up the pit options for Right Side Only / Left Side Only / Both Sides.  Not exactly sure what the Front/RearTireCompoundSetting lines do, I'm guessing nothing in VHR.

Regarding Left/Right parameters ...
The CUP_tires.TBC file has the following lines under [COMPOUND].  It has a bunch of other parameters as well, but here are the ones that are different from left-to-right, front-to-back, or both ...
Name="Goodyear"FRONTLEFT:                                 // Arguments: ALL, FRONT, REAR, LEFT, RIGHT, FRONTLEFT, FRONTRIGHT, REARLEFT,
DryLatLong=(1.55572, 1.9000)                 //2.03500 Lateral/longitudinal coefficients in dry weather  (2.080, 2.142)WetLatLong=(0.890, 0.915)              // Lateral/longitudinal coefficients in wet weatherRadius=0.3529133539108306RadiusRPM=3.01e-6                      // Increased radius per unit RPMCamberLatLong=(2.00, 0.250, 0.11)       // Peak camber angle, lateral gain at peak, longitudinal loss at 90 degreesPneumaticTrail=9.52e-7Heating=(3.70e-1, 3.80e-3)Temperatures=(104.44, 29.444)             // Optimum operating temperature for peak forces (Celsius), starting temperatureOptimumPressure=(47.0, 0.0250)         // Base pressure to remain flat on ground at zero deflection, and multiplier by load to stay flat on ground
FRONTRIGHT:                                
DryLatLong=(1.56572, 1.9000)                 
WetLatLong=(0.890, 0.915)             Radius=0.358168650131725 RadiusRPM=3.01e-6 CamberLatLong=(2.00, 0.250, 0.11) PneumaticTrail=9.52e-7Heating=(3.70e-1, 3.80e-3)Temperatures=(110.0, 29.444)            
OptimumPressure=(50.0, 0.0250)          
REARLEFT:DryLatLong=(1.56572, 1.9100)                
WetLatLong=(0.944, 0.970)
Radius=0.3529133539108306RadiusRPM=2.01e-6CamberLatLong=(2.00, 0.250, 0.11) PneumaticTrail=1.14e-6Heating=(3.70e-1, 3.80e-3)Temperatures=(104.44, 29.444)OptimumPressure=(45.0, 0.0200)
REARRIGHT:DryLatLong=(1.56572, 1.9100)  
WetLatLong=(0.944, 0.970)Radius=0.358168650131725 RadiusRPM=2.01e-6CamberLatLong=(2.00, 0.250, 0.11)PneumaticTrail=1.14e-6Heating=(3.70e-1, 3.80e-3)Temperatures=(110.0, 29.444)OptimumPressure=(42.0, 0.0200)
Additionally, there are Upgrade files (one per car make) which point to track-specific TBC files.
For example, CUP_Atlanta.TBC contains these lines, differing from the above ...
Name="Atl-Stickers"FRONTLEFT:                                
DryLatLong=(1.45572, 1.7000) CamberLatLong=(3.95,0.10,0.21)
FRONTRIGHT:                                
DryLatLong=(1.45572, 1.7000) CamberLatLong=(3.95,0.10,0.21) 
REARLEFT:DryLatLong=(1.45572, 1.7000)CamberLatLong=(3.95,0.10,0.21)
REARRIGHT:DryLatLong=(1.45572, 1.7000)  
CamberLatLong=(3.95,0.10,0.21)
And CUP_Infineon.TBC contains these lines ...
Name="Inf-Stickers"FRONTLEFT:                                
DryLatLong=(1.82, 2.00)                Radius=0.358168650131725 RadiusRPM=2.01e-6CamberLatLong=(3.95,0.10,0.21)                    Heating=(4.70e-1, 4.80e-3) 
FRONTRIGHT:                               DryLatLong=(1.82, 2.00)Radius=0.358168650131725 RadiusRPM=2.01e-6 CamberLatLong=(3.95,0.10,0.21)Heating=(4.70e-1, 4.80e-3)
REARLEFT:DryLatLong=(1.82, 2.00)Radius=0.358168650131725 RadiusRPM=2.01e-6 CamberLatLong=(3.95,0.10,0.21) 
Heating=(4.70e-1, 4.80e-3) 
REARRIGHT:DryLatLong=(1.82, 2.00)Radius=0.358168650131725 RadiusRPM=2.01e-6CamberLatLong=(3.95,0.10,0.21) Heating=(4.70e-1, 4.80e-3)
Seems pretty clear this is how they handle stagger, optimum pressures, etc., for ovals and road courses.  However, I'm assuming this only works for the specific tracks listed in the upgrade files, otherwise it defaults to CUP_tires.TBC.
I'm also assuming we would rather not go that route, as we don't have "dedicated" tracks and prefer the flexibility.

So ... how many different tire combinations do we need?  We know at least two ... (1) road course + (1) oval.  But do we need multiple for ovals, say for superspeedways, speedways, and short tracks?
I know we can set it up for multiple choices in the Garage Setup screen.  But I don't know how that affects in-race pit options, which I would think should be non-optional during a race.

Will continue to dig as I can ...
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Trae00
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Trae00
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Joined: January 8th, 2004, 6:05 am

October 28th, 2016, 7:32 am #2

I looked around a little inside the CART 86 mod.  There are (2) different "compounds" listed in it:
[COMPOUND]Name="Hards"...
[COMPOUND]Name="Softs"...
So I suppose this would be the way we program the tires .... using the "FRONTLEFT", "FRONTRIGHT", "REARLEFT", and "REARRIGHT" arguments to address the left/right issue, and creating multiple "compounds" for Road, Oval, etc.
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Trae00
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Trae00
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October 28th, 2016, 9:06 am #3

Okay, taking a deeper look into the old GN69_70 mod files...
It appears they were attempting a similar approach as the VHR mod, by using the "GN_Upgrades.ini" file to specify the tire file based on Track Configuration from the "TrackConfigsBase.ini" file.  But that also limits your track options, unless you want to continually modify the file every time a track needs to be added.
Last edited by Trae00 on October 28th, 2016, 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ziggy Moonglow
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Ziggy Moonglow
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Joined: December 3rd, 2002, 8:56 am

October 31st, 2016, 9:42 pm #4

Once a schedule is made, we can modify that track config file to include the different tracks and the tires that go with them. This will prevent people from selecting soft tires at speedways and such (aka 'soaking', 'running lefts on the right', 'cheating', etc).

Different tires that are needed:
Road Course = Short track lefts - these would be the highest grip, shortest life tires (soft)
Short track rights = Speedway lefts - these would be less grip, longer life than RC tires (medium)
Speedway rights = Superspeedway lefts = these would be less grip, longer life than the short track rights (hard)
Superspeedway rights - these have the least amount of grip and longest life (hardest)

Four different types of tires. Just need to add them to the track config thing as the schedule is made.

The grip numbers on the tires you've listed are a bit goofy since they aren't different from right to left and they should be. Also, the RPM radius is the same rear or front instead of left and right and that's goofy too since they should be the exact same tires... I'm not sure how the numbers work, but the tires should grow a bit from PSI since that's how they would adjust the stagger on the bias ply tires and of course the heat should add more PSI. I'm still not sure how what the math means like "RadiusRPM=3.01e-6 ". No clue what that means and how much it would make the tire grow.

One thing I have noticed is that the slip curve on the tires appears to be more important than the grip numbers. I can alter the grip number and not get much of a difference in the way the car handles, as far as I can tell.

The T/A tires slip around nicely while the DISS tires seem too sticky, even with the same grip numbers. While I'd hoped to be able to test some differences this weekend, along with trying to figure out why the Mopars all handle like bulldozers, reality smacked me down and kept me from doing much of anything. :-(

I'll check in again and try the tires you've got listed and see how they look. Basically, if you can try them and let me know what temps and pressures they run at, I can attempt alter the grip or slip curve a bit.

Thx for the info! :-)
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Ziggy Moonglow
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Ziggy Moonglow
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Joined: December 3rd, 2002, 8:56 am

October 14th, 2017, 2:24 pm #5

Yay.   Using the T/A Firebird tires and altering the LatPeak and LongPeak, the cars don't get as sideways.  Bigger numbers make peak grip at bigger angles so lowering them makes the cars want to stay less 'yawed'.

Getting very good results by using upped grip and adjusting the heat depending on the track (SS, SP, ST, RD).  Same grip for all tracks, just adjusted the heat and angles and thing fell into place.
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Trae00
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Trae00
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Joined: January 8th, 2004, 6:05 am

October 18th, 2017, 7:24 am #6

That's fantastic, looking forward to trying that out.
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