Reboot

THIS SECTION WILL CONAIN SPOILERS. This section is to discuss what ever may be in store for the future of Dark Castle. Nothing is confirmed as of yet.

Moderators: izdale, Jon God, La Porta, gruz

Action Jack
Dark Castle Itself!
Action Jack
Dark Castle Itself!
Joined: Mar 10 2007, 07:22 PM

Mar 2 2010, 05:10 AM #16

Jon God @ Feb 28 2010, 09:54 PM wrote: It's not technically a reboot, but the new game is made by another company, and bares little, if any resemblance to Max Payne 1 and 2 (and the movie, which was crap, as well.)

Looks like they genericized it, IMO.
Oh, how sad. Yet ironic, because it nowadays it wouldn't take much to genericize Max Payne. When Max Payne first did bullet time, it was the hippest thing there ever what was. Now, nearly a decade letter, it's no big deal.

Kind of like how the Alone in the Dark trilogy paved the way for Resident Evil, but Alone in the Dark 4 was a Resident Evil rip-off.
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Richard
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Richard
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Joined: Jun 23 2007, 03:37 PM

Mar 3 2010, 01:15 AM #17

Action Jack @ Mar 2 2010, 01:29 AM wrote:Yeah, okay.  I think you're on to something.  I would suggest the non-doink be a character in the vein of the original Prince of Persia; somebody slightly more durable than Duncan, with acrobatics that allow access to more places (perhaps adding a few moves from Flashback), but who lacks a ranged attack.
Yup, I had very similar ideas. :) Not necessarily no ranged attack, but definitely with physical carry-space only - i.e. no hammer-space. You can hold what you have in your hands (and in which case you'll have trouble with ropes/ladders etc if holding much), and little more. Lack of hammer-space compensated for some other interesting abilities.
Action Jack @ Mar 2 2010, 01:29 AM wrote:And as you were likely expecting me to do, I'd encourage you to leave characters from separate existing fictional universes out of it.  I clearly don't know Rei the way you do, and am thus not qualified to say that her presence would ruin the atmosphere of Dark Castle.  But consider this...

It seems like a common worry here is that a Dark Castle reboot just wouldn't be Dark Castle anymore.  There are two ways that could happen: subjectively (all the pieces are there, but for whatever reason it "just doesn't feel like Dark Castle," such as if it were in 3D) or objectively (pieces are included which are by definition not Dark Castle, such as adding Rei).
tis true (and yes, I did expect it), though my universe has several potential characters that could make the pair, and as I've commented before; there's so little actual DC canon that unless you have Bryant and Duncan then you're rather out of luck staying true to it.

My view (which is by no means any more legit than yours, it is simply my view) is that I'm more likely to go with some character of my own device which may or may not end up being Rei as I envisaged her. Given Eva has three different semi-conflicting canons for her (several more if you count the computer games) and I chose to extrapolate from the original TV series and (IMHO best) one to well beyond that particular end of evangelion; it's not like my moulding of her character has left her true to any canon anyway... Regardless, I felt doinky-boy needed some company. Perhaps there should be several options and you pick two of n. Or maybe it's Bryant & Rei vs Duncan & Miyu. Or who knows; many possibilities.

The interesting bit is having someone that is there to help doinky-boy get through his mission; and yet isn't overall a very much stronger or weaker character. Just plays very differently. Certainly said character can't tilt the balance of the game such that Bryant/Duncan become irrelevant.

Action Jack @ Mar 2 2010, 01:29 AM wrote:However, if you're the one making this, then in order for it to be a good game it will be crucial for you to use what you know, and to use what you love.  If you want Rei's influence, I would propose that you instead use a character who is obviously inspired by Rei, with a similar set of abilities.  But at the end of the day, I wouldn't step on a man's PNF (personal nerd fantasy).  I know how mad *I* would be if I programmed a painstakingly realistic ninja simulator, and some doofbag whined about how the protagonist can't throw a fireball.
aye. A good reason. I've not come across `PNF' before, and quite like it - even if I worry that `nerd fantasy' does have some connotations I'd rather steer well clear of. Still, you can't write a fraction shy of 100k words on a set of characters and not become somewhat involved in them; they live inside you and want to get out.... Hence wanting to write a game (or two or three) when it became clear Mr Level Editor was neither going turn up before I grew bored with waiting, or if it did, be too limited to express what I wanted to do.

Regardless, I think I've already answered this; game-balance is all important, and TBH I can't think of any character other than Duncan that would be in keeping with DC.... Except hang on, Bryant and Percy[!] <.< So given at the end of the day it's going to be a fairly low-res 2d sprite of some ilk; I think it matters little whether the author chooses to call it someone, or someone else.

Action Jack @ Mar 2 2010, 01:29 AM wrote:Oh, and in terms of wanting help... I'd love to, but I don't know how to program.&nbsp; I would playtest and do my best to break the game, I'm very articulate in explaining why I like and dislike various fundamental design choices, and I've got a decent amount of experience in sound design (though more of an artistic than a technical nature, and I've never composed music).&nbsp; I'd also be thrilled if there were were any voice-overs I could provide, and I've got quality instruments to record them.

If any of that interests you, my sword is yours.
Thanks for the offers and will bear it in mind! Wasn't really thinking of voice-overs TBH, as I share your previously stated opinion that the characters should basically be mute.

Artists would be the main interest; I would probably start the coding if I had someone to draw backgrounds and sprites and so on... Music and sounds can be stolen as placeholders from elsewhere until original content can be made to fill the gap...

But this is all by-the-by. I have no time for a couple of months at least to look in to this. Another trip to New Zealand beckons in a few weeks time! :)
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Action Jack
Dark Castle Itself!
Action Jack
Dark Castle Itself!
Joined: Mar 10 2007, 07:22 PM

Mar 3 2010, 03:14 AM #18

Hurrah! I coined PNF for that post. I'm convinced that everyone's got one; I'd bet that even the most tough-as-nails police officer has a secret fantasy about teaming up with Wyatt Earp to bring peace to the land, and that somewhere there is a respected public defender who wants to be Hwang Fei Hung. And with this new terminology, comes unity.

I think the word "nerd" has been re-appropriated. Back in the fifties, when you were either a football player or a communist, it was a hateful insult that the popular kids would throw at an outcast. But now it is simply a descriptive term, and a culture. That, or now there's just so much other freaky stuff out there that nobody has time to judge me for playing Magic: The Gathering.

Anyway, bottom line is, if you make a fun game, I'll play it and like it. If you make a game as fun as Dark Castle, I'll be ecstatic. And if you do think of a way I can help, I'd be excited to be involved in a game design process.

...what if you could play as a Mutant? They're doinks just as much as Duncan, but they seem to be evolving. In BDC they could throw rocks, in RTDC they learned to use parachutes... sooner or later they'll be morphing into puddles of goo.
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Richard
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Richard
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Joined: Jun 23 2007, 03:37 PM

Mar 10 2010, 09:06 PM #19

Action Jack @ Mar 3 2010, 03:14 AM wrote: ...what if you could play as a Mutant? They're doinks just as much as Duncan, but they seem to be evolving. In BDC they could throw rocks, in RTDC they learned to use parachutes... sooner or later they'll be morphing into puddles of goo.
A novel idea; but I think Bellix has the patent on that one. Also you'd not seriously be able to complete any room that required ledge jump as a mutant. Well, not unless you changed them to be very un-mutant like. Perhaps Bryant could pick you [the mutant] up and put you in his pocket to get across the gaps...

Or perhaps a whole new game could be made, but then the link with DC is tenuous other than the sprites. I'd rather keep something a little bit truer.

Anyways, if and when I get time and decide to actually do this, I may let people know. However it's not going to happen unless I do find some additional help for artwork/coding as I'm not spending 10 years of *my* life on something that rips off the IP of SHFF :)
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Lancelot
The Wizard
Lancelot
The Wizard
Joined: Apr 14 2008, 08:18 PM

Apr 18 2010, 08:13 PM #20

If they did do Dark Castle in 3D, it would probably end up being likee Tomb Raider or Prince of Persia.
Game Complete!

And I looked, and beheld a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. -REVELATION 6:8
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shade
Eyeball
shade
Eyeball
Joined: Mar 12 2008, 12:29 AM

Apr 19 2010, 07:10 AM #21

You know, I still haven't played any of the Sands of Time series. But I still have The Shadow and the Flame installed. I hope it doesn't turn into something like Tomb Raider...
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.
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Booken
Bat
Joined: Nov 10 2008, 11:37 PM

Aug 24 2012, 02:02 PM #22

I been wanting a 3D Dark Castle for years now.

I can see a 3rd person, platformer/shooter game, where the camera shift to help you throw rocks.
We'd keep all the Dark Castle classics. The guards, the mutants, the vultures, snakes, rats, the burning eye slowly floating around shooting fireballs (Think Minecraft Ghast!), the shield and fireball power ups...

Just one thing, however, the game could be a prequel and the protagonist could be the black knight trying to break a curse on the castle (and ultimately failing)

Rather than cel-shade graphics, I'd would love dark atmospherics - torches barely lighting the path ahead - and give the new game a creepy mood. Platforming and dodging should remain the focus.

Which reminds me - we really gotta try it. With the devs permission, I could probably texture up some stuff for Valve's Movie maker, and put together a small movie to see how the game could look and feel.
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Action Jack
Dark Castle Itself!
Action Jack
Dark Castle Itself!
Joined: Mar 10 2007, 07:22 PM

Aug 25 2012, 09:35 AM #23

Booken @ Aug 24 2012, 09:02 AM wrote: Rather than cel-shade graphics, I'd would love dark atmospherics - torches barely lighting the path ahead - and give the new game a creepy mood.
Ah, but if Dark Castle's not at least a LITTLE bit goofy you lose a fundamental aspect of its personality. Dark Castle has all the ingredients of medieval horror- torture chambers, dragons, lightning, gargoyles- but it's also got a doofus for a main character, silly mutants, weights straight out of Looney Tunes complete with the words "16 tons" on the side, and a wizard who has mastered the element of fire but still reads with an electric light.

My stance in the debate we had in this thread so long ago was basically this: you can make a good game based on Dark Castle, but that doesn't mean the game will BE Dark Castle. Your idea sounds like a perfect example of that phenomenon.

But it still sounds like it'd be totally awesome, and sounds like something I'd play and love every second of except for the labyrinths.

Just don't make the mutants scary, or you'll get a bunch of fanboy rage. This is our childhoods we're talking about here ;)
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Richard
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Richard
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Joined: Jun 23 2007, 03:37 PM

Aug 27 2012, 11:08 AM #24

as Action says, it's an interesting idea. I'd be careful though in that general experience has show that proper 3D (i.e. not just using it to make 2D look better) and platforming don't go terribly well together in execution.
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Booken
Bat
Joined: Nov 10 2008, 11:37 PM

Aug 27 2012, 10:59 PM #25

Richard @ Aug 27 2012, 03:08 AM wrote: as Action says, it's an interesting idea. I'd be careful though in that general experience has show that proper 3D (i.e. not just using it to make 2D look better) and platforming don't go terribly well together in execution.
A mix of 3D and 2.5D then?

And don't worry, I'll keep the goofy. :Mutant:
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Action Jack
Dark Castle Itself!
Action Jack
Dark Castle Itself!
Joined: Mar 10 2007, 07:22 PM

Aug 28 2012, 04:51 AM #26

Do whatever you think will make the most fun game. My only advice is to avoid a perspective that requires the camera to rotate.

Why? Because a large portion of the fun and excitement of dark castle comes from the variety of threats that continuously hurl themselves at you. Threats that almost never stay dead.

Look at Black Knight Showdown from BDC. You have to jump over holes, dodge the Black Knight's mugs, and avoid spikes, all while suppressing guards, snakes, and gargoyles. You'll only survive if you wait until the perfect moment when ALL of those threats are inactive. If the player dies because he/she can't see that a snake is crawling up from behind, a mug is flying down at Duncan's head, and the guard on the next floor has respawned (assuming guards can still even be hit through the floor), the game will turn into a test of luck rather than skill.

So I guess what I'm saying is, when you change one end of a formula, you often have to change the other end to balance it.

Of course, if it's still basically a sidescroller but you've got just a tiny bit of Z-axis you can slip in and out of to dodge... hm... then you can throw MORE stuff at the player. Of course, you'd have to find a clear way to tell what enemies were in each layer of depth (maybe shadows on the ground or something), but it could probably be worked out.
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