The Hero's Journey according to Joseph Campbell

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jackmolay
Joined: 16 Nov 2015, 19:24

03 Aug 2017, 10:25 #11

@Marney 

The split brain video gives a very good example of different "persons" living in one brain. 

Jung argues that there can be many such "complexes" who have some kind of personal independence, but that i a "normal" person the ego manages to create narratives that makes it seems that all the irrational things we do makes sense. However, sometimes one of these personalities make take over even in non-schizophrenic persons , especially when they are stressed or drunk. "I don't know what came over me."

I have suggested that a cross-gender identity may also express itself as a separate person, as an avatar (as in this forum) or through role play (as in crossdressing and cosplay). I even gave this avatar a name: a ponyo. http://www.crossdreamers.com/2012/04/po ... art-i.html

@Barbara Haskell 

I think your explanation of the differences between the journey of the scoundrel and the hero makes perfect sense. That being said, the hero may "fall to the dark side" and fail in his or her quest. The difference between Anakin and Luke Skywalker comes to mind, as Xora points out.

@Xora,

I think you are on to something important here. The hero's journey is -- at its base -- about being true to yourself or your complete self. The underlying logic is threefold:

1. By being true to your Self, you liberate the abilities and forces of your Self, and by doing so you have abilities that can be used to both hurt and help others.

2. The reason the Hero chooses to help instead of hurting others is that he or she, through the journey, has developed a keen sense of compassion to all living beings. You become much more aware of the suffering of others. The journeys of two great part-mythical heros, Jesus and Buddha, reflect this 

3. But the Hero also becomes keenly aware of the complexity of the world and the fact that moral absolutes can be as harmful as they are helpful, in some contexts. They also realize that suffering is an unavoidable part of life, and that sometimes you have to cause suffering in others to help. And you will fail, repeatedly.  This is in many ways an anti-fundamentalist kind of process. 

John Hammond was not a sociopath, but he had not learned the humility of the hero. Ian Malcolm had.
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Barbara Haskell
Joined: 14 Sep 2016, 12:12

05 Aug 2017, 20:31 #12

Now I see that @Xora is right: there is no pure wight and or absolute black. All Heroes at some point of their journey are tempted by the simple solution, which can be seen as the fall onto the Dark Side of the Force. On this point I want to stop, and to look onto StarCraft 2 trilogy. It's not only the RTS game. It's also a tale, not a fairy tale, but a real tale about the universe, where is no black and white. There is only some shadows of gray. I know by the heart, that we can derive from here something meaningful.

For people, who do not know the story: in previous part, Sarah Kerrigan was captured by Zerg and turned into the Queen of the Blades -- the ruthless killer. In the first part of SC2 trilogy, it's James Raynor, who is The Hero. He is willing to do anything to save humankind from the Queen of the Blades, and when he got a hope to return Sarah from the Dark Side, he is going all in to do so. And he succeeds.

Second part, The Heat of The Swarm, is the most important to me. Sarah is no longer one of the Zerg, but when she hears heartbeaking news, she goes again to the Dark Side.



Or so she thinks. Later, it was reveled that what she has done is the one and only way to do the things right. Sarah is on her quest for vengeance, she is Zerg again, but also she struggles not to lose her human part. Her struggles about dual human-zerg nature, even if they are shown briefly in the game (lots more in fanfics!) are not unfamiliar to some non-binary people (including me).

At some point, it's her human part, which shines when she deals with Zegrs. Other times, her human friends must remind her about consequences of acting in "efficient" ways. It's friends, who are fighting for Sarah, and Sarah, who fights for Jim.

It was so easy to Sarah to fall into the dark despair or ruthless vengeance, without this zergling.

"You are not from my brood. You are not even a proper Zerg, as I can see. But I can't allow you to howl here alone. I'm with you, improper Zerg. You are not alone"

It's a pattern, so common in different tales, it's really compassion and friends, which makes our hero not a fallen one, but The Hero. StarCraft brings it on the surface -- Jim can never be so strong without Matthew, Matthew without Jim can do nothing, Zeratul alone with his knowledge can't do anything, and without Zeratul's prophecies, told to Jim, Sarah and other people there is no hope for all races. Even without cooperation with pirates, at some point, nothing can be done.

Also, there is no clear-cut outcome of your actions. You may think that you are doing the right thing, but you are horribly wrong, like Emperor Mengsk. You may be torn by the two opposite forces, like Tychus, and in the end ... (this is another tale). Or you may go onto the Dark Side, only seeing later, that there was the only right way... This is our human nature, this is our blessing and curse.

Going back to transgender journey, if it's a journey of the Hero, it's so important to note, nobody never should howl alone.
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jackmolay
Joined: 16 Nov 2015, 19:24

06 Aug 2017, 08:04 #13

@Barbara,

Great example!

We should also add that given the Hero's new perspective -- and what he or she has learned on their journey -- what they do when they come back may seem evil to those who are still living in the old world.

This is why transgender people who come out to their families may be seen as evil and perverted. How could they not be in the eyes of the traditionalists? They are, after all, going against "common sense", "decency", "the Law of God" and "the moral order".... And yes: What will the neighbours say?

For this reason some Heros never come back, like Frodo leaving with the elves to the land in the West. His life world had simply become too different, and he was not able to go back as a guide or teacher or leader, as some do.
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Dawn
Joined: 27 Jul 2017, 08:02

06 Aug 2017, 16:38 #14

I think Robocop is one of my favorite hero journeys. A man, stripped of his humanity, struggles to wake up and reclaim it. I like the exploration of being dead, and yet living to come to terms with that death. For me, at least, its one of the deeper action movies of the time. (Not the horrible remake... just don't even bother.)

Maybe I related to Robocop's plight because I was trans, but didn't accept it. Vital parts of my humanity didn't fit my body and my expected role in society, so retreated and all but died. I was like a machine, muddling along, not even realizing what was missing. Sure, I would sometimes notice the absence, and there was the crossdreaming. Still, in a lot of ways it was like I was dead.

Now I'm waking up. It does feel a lot like the beginning of a hero's journey. I can only will that mine can be less tragic and conflicted than the heroes I tend to really like.
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oreb
Joined: 14 May 2017, 21:32

13 Aug 2017, 17:35 #15

Don't trust them, Steven.
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Jen
Joined: 18 Nov 2015, 05:33

14 Aug 2017, 02:17 #16

jackmolay wrote: @Barbara,

Great example!

We should also add that given the Hero's new perspective -- and what he or she has learned on their journey -- what they do when they come back may seem evil to those who are still living in the old world.

This is why transgender people who come out to their families may be seen as evil and perverted. How could they not be in the eyes of the traditionalists? They are, after all, going against "common sense", "decency", "the Law of God" and "the moral order".... And yes: What will the neighbours say?

For this reason some Heros never come back, like Frodo leaving with the elves to the land in the West. His life world had simply become too different, and he was not able to go back as a guide or teacher or leader, as some do.
Yes, I agree here.  I was wondering why Frodo had to die in the end.  He was changed too much indeed.  He could not re-emerge, sort of, as another form like he was before. 
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Dawn
Joined: 27 Jul 2017, 08:02

14 Aug 2017, 04:43 #17

I thought Frodo departed Middle Earth with the elves, leaving Middle Earth behind much as the elves were. The time for such legends was passing.
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Jen
Joined: 18 Nov 2015, 05:33

14 Aug 2017, 04:47 #18

Yes, Frodo was so wounded , he had to leave with the elves, but I think they were all going to some sort of heaven, never again to return to Middle Earth or something.  The point is, Frodo the hero, could not return.  He lost his mortality.  His spirit had to enter a different realm.  But, but, but, Sam was the hero who returned and was changed.  Sam got more extroverted, started a family, and took care of his people, much wiser in the end. 
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Barbara Haskell
Joined: 14 Sep 2016, 12:12

14 Aug 2017, 11:14 #19

In StarCraft, after the defeat of Amun, Raynor struggles with his place in the world. Valerian becomes an emperor, Zagara becomes an Overqueen, protoss are too busy. All people returns to life, not the old one, but a new life. Raynor obviously have no his place in this new world. But he has his place in the Universe. His Home now is where Kerrigan is, and the best what he can do with terrans now, is to drink in the bar at Mar Sara.

The same with Frodo, he changed too much. It's Frodo, not Sam, who carried The Ring. It's Frodo, who lost his finger at Orodruin in the last fight with Gollum. In his journey he passed the point of no return to the old Home, and to the old Self.
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