Alias WunderDirt
Dream Walker
Joined: 5:03 PM - Dec 22, 2015

4:30 PM - Jan 12, 2016 #11

We posted in this section because it seemed to most apply. That said, move this were ever. I'm fine with moving.

Software interface here doesn't work very well with Android tablets. We're using a laptop these days.
Alias WunderDirt is Allison --
Allison Wunderland's Transcend Dance -- AllisonTranscend.blogspot.com
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PipX
Dream Catcher
PipX
Dream Catcher
Joined: 5:22 AM - Nov 19, 2015

4:44 PM - Jan 12, 2016 #12

The film is about the First MtF TS.. Not quite sure why that means the FtM setion is the one that most applies
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AllisonWunderland
Dream Walker
Joined: 3:20 PM - Mar 01, 2017

5:44 PM - Oct 16, 2017 #13

Last post in this thread is listed as 12 Jan 2016 #12

That's a year and 9 months. -- and most of the posts are about moving the thread.

There's a fundamental irony in posting here in the FtoM section. There's irony in "passing" as post-transitional FtoM, trans radical feminist, "a different sort of butch."

But then I'm inevitably reading too much Post-Modern, Post-Structuralist, radical feminist gender theory.

I've been able to view and think about "The Danish Girl." My "position" on gender expression is that gender derives from socio-cultural conventions. In a very real theoretical sense I feel that trans-whatever orientation is a product of cultural conventions. The convention of cross-gender presentation dates back at least to the Minoans.

Lili Elba in The Danish Girl lands in the historical niche of trans-genderism when surgeons had decided that "gender dysphoria" is a pathology and that modern medicine can "fix it." The medical narrative that comes to mind from this perspective is Mary Shelly's "Frankenstein." Indeed there is a discrete sort of trans literature which considers the medical/ethical implication of "gender resolution surgery."

My criticism of "gender resolution surgery" is that sexual differentiation between males and females is infinitely more complex than genital modification, mammary augmentation or reduction, maybe a trachea shave, eyebrow ridge reduction . . . Here's a demonstration of skeletal differences in males / females: Place heels against a wall. Without bending knees, reach over and touch the floor. Cis-F can touch the floor. Cis-M center of gravity makes touching the floor impossible.

Lili Elba's transitional objective is full female function -- manifest in childbearing. My personal objective in transition is to obtain XX chromosomes, regular menses.

Currently -- and it's been several years -- my "gender resolution" is to recognize that gender presentation is ineluctably wrapped up in social convention. That said, there is a margin between the poles of gender where presentation becomes non-binary, maybe "unintelligible" in the words of Judith Butler.

My current objective is to deconstruct the semes of gender presentation so that the "gender cues" presented are ambiguous. This not because my presentation matters to my identity, but rather that gender imposes its signification as an aspect of cultural determinism. My current objective is to deconstruct that determinism.

-- Or you could read the blog.
Allison Wunderland's Transcend Dance --
http://allisontranscend.blogspot.com/
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Xora
Dream Dancer
Xora
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Joined: 1:07 PM - Nov 20, 2015

2:46 PM - Oct 22, 2017 #14

AllisonWunderland wrote: Lili Elba's transitional objective is full female function -- manifest in childbearing. My personal objective in transition is to obtain XX chromosomes, regular menses.

Currently -- and it's been several years -- my "gender resolution" is to recognize that gender presentation is ineluctably wrapped up in social convention. That said, there is a margin between the poles of gender where presentation becomes non-binary, maybe "unintelligible" in the words of Judith Butler.

My current objective is to deconstruct the semes of gender presentation so that the "gender cues" presented are ambiguous. This not because my presentation matters to my identity, but rather that gender imposes its signification as an aspect of cultural determinism. My current objective is to deconstruct that determinism.
I don’t really understand the idea of someone wanting to transition as far as changing their chromosomes, as if that wasn’t something the realms of science fiction anyway, requiring altering the genetic makeup of every cell in your adult body, when it’s not something that anyone else can see or feel short of looking at your blood under a microscope.
Once you are out of the womb, the differential genes on the sex chromosomes aren’t really doing anything for you anyway, so you would want to change them why? To prove some rather abstract point to yourself or to the severely trans-phobic?

I can maybe see the point in wanting to transition as far as child bearing, at least as a wish fulfilment fantasy for the really broody, but that still pretty much medically impractical, and runs into so many complications like tissue rejection of an artificial or donor womb etc, or resizing the pelvic bones to make normal child delivery practical, it’s not really going to be medically worthwhile for decades to come, and to some extent a complete brain transplant might be simpler to achieve.

To me transition is to relieve dissonance, biochemical dissonance is relieved by cross-sex hormones, physical bodily dissonance can be further relieved by various cosmetic surgeries and procedures, sexual dissonance can somewhat imperfectly be relieved by genital surgery, in either direction, and social dissonance can be relieved by having a moderately passable appearance, and/or the legal rights to adopt an alternative social and legal gender identity, free from fear and overt discrimination, and still make full use of both public and private products/services and facilities

Yes, some trans women get to be models and pop stars and actresses, but most do not. I’m sure a lot of cis people also wish they were more attractive or charismatic, but I have a hard time believing that anyone seriously feels dissonant about their chromosomes.

I don’t want to deconstruct and change the world, I just want to live in it. Oh, and regular menses are really messy and a pain to live with, and pretty pointless if you aren’t ever going to be able to get pregnant, so it’s not something one ought to wish for.


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AllisonWunderland
Dream Walker
Joined: 3:20 PM - Mar 01, 2017

12:01 AM - Oct 25, 2017 #15

Xora,

We can never decide if you're FTM or MTF -- which I suppose is the whole point here!

The one movie (and I've seen most of them) exploring trans gender that seems not to get wrapped up in stereo-types is "The Crying Game."

(We have yet to see "Boys Don't Cry.")

What we're seeing in characterization of "trans" -- inevitably M to F -- is that the character is seemingly forged out of the diagnostic criteria for a pathological view of "gender ID disorder." Trans is a pathology. This putative "pathos" is defined and mediated by "gatekeepers" -- medical professionals who provide surgery and/or hormones to those who meet this "trans-pathological criteria."

Every single trans person we've ever encountered understands full-well what this trans-pathological criteria is and can present it when prompted.

The outcome from this gender management paradigm is that movies which approach the subject of "trans" focus on the stereo-typical criteria used to diagnose gender dysphoria. Part of making a comprehensible gender narrative is to "go for the obvious features" -- present to the audience a clear, distinct, binary view of sex and gender. Any more nuanced narrative is likely to be lost on the audience.

Masculine women (female masculinity) is not "sexy" and doesn't sell movie tickets.

Personally, we have a difficult time "passing" as female. We can pass, have passed. But it's a costume and not me.

We play a game out in the real world. We sight someone far off in the distance (on the beach, on the street,) and we assign a gender. 98% of the time, at significant distances (100 metres) we determine sex using cues of posture, stature, gait. Both genders in the coastal recreational area wear pretty much the same clothing. So clothing cues are minimal. Cammo, work boots, jeans and a pickup truck locally are "non binary."

One feminist criticism of M to F is that males and females are socialized differently. The two sexes have socially engendered identities that are reinforced and validated in all encompassing and subtle ways.

Right now we are trying to resolve an identity dissonance with our colleague who is very masculine looking, masculine acting, and 3 month pregnant.

Right now we are trying to resolve our personal ID dissonance -- hair past the shoulders, earrings, but these days we no longer shave "nose to toes" -- and we don't try to "pass" as cis-F. Physically obvious that I am cis-M, but also evident that I am non-binary, which works for me, for the time being.
Allison Wunderland's Transcend Dance --
http://allisontranscend.blogspot.com/
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