On Bottoms, Tops, Anxiety, Therapy and a Better Understanding of Myself.

Joined: November 18th, 2015, 9:10 pm

January 25th, 2016, 1:15 am #1

I have done a lot of personal work myself and a therapist this year.  I think some new thoughts have emerged from that that are relevant to my crossdreaming.

At an early age I had a social anxiety disorder that my teachers tried to get my parents to treat but which they dismissed.  The result was I was horrible with any social contact for a very long time--really my early 20's. I felt alone and an outsider in almost any setting.  I faked it the best I could but I never belonged anywhere and the only refuge I had was in books and personal growth/enrichment.  I have left out my crossdreaming in therapy because I am in therapy for anxiety and depression not sexualality.

Early on I could not concieve of why kids where mean to eachother.  It competley perplexed me as my impulses where to be honest, sincere, cooperative, and truthful to people.  I think there was some empathy with me as well and I had traits that are thought of as culturally feminine. But my social anxiety was rooted in some toxic internalized self image of myself where I did not feel like anyone wanted to be around me.  These are not normal or healthy thoughts.  I don't know where these feelings came from--maybe I felt abondoned by my mother as a todler, but by seems less relevant now.  Importantly I always idolized and amired women as wanting their attention but I never wanted to be one that I recall.

One thing that emerged from the gentler parts of my personality and the unfullfiled need was a bottom sexual instinct. This is something which is virtually impossible to do anything about in adolesence for a straight guy.  Perhaps if I where under different influences or if I had better luck with women in high school, it might have emerged with a differnt response to the "bottom" feeling.  But things being what they where, with my focus, attraction to, and admiration of women, combined by their rejection of me, lead me to the very basic embodiment fantasy that emerged when I was 19. Basically women had all the sexual power and I felt that --wanted that-- in a visceral way.

In my 20's I overcame all of these things with brute force. I joined activities that forced me into social contact and eventulaly started winning friends and girl friends, and eventuall a wife out of that.  I discovered within me and cultivated a Cis "Top" sexual instincts.  I poured myself in various activites and my career and found enough success in each where I overcame the consequences of my anxiety. But I still had social anxiety and depression at times, especially when I felt inadequite.  The only thing that seems to have helped that is talking to my therapist about it.  And from that thereapy I feel a great weight lifted off me.

I still have the fused "bottom-crossdreaming" sexual impulse in my makeup. But my sexuality is so much more than that. Anxiety, depression, thinking about crossdreaming, and pursuing it makes it stronger and success, contentment, and satisfaction with Cis/Top roles and sexuality make the bottom-crossdreaming impulse weaker.  But I have both and neither of them are going away.  I am not androginous but I seem to be able to cultivate and experience a broad spectrum of sexulality.  I don't think I could do a gay relationship, but there is probably literally not anyting I would not try with a women--at least once. But maybe more importantly, I don't need to cultivate as broad of experience as possile as long as my sexual and emotional needs are getting met.

If you got this far thanks for sticking with me.  It is so easy to say" this is just a fetish" but this pile of words is a more explicit articuation of what really feel about it.


 
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Joined: November 16th, 2015, 2:24 pm

January 25th, 2016, 11:12 am #2

Very interesting.... Thank you for sharing this.

I need some more time to think about what you have written here, but there was one thing that struck me about the top/bottom dichotomy.

For more than 2000 years being a bottom has been a big taboo for cis, straight, men. (But it might be that it is slowly changing, the increased popularity of "pegging" considered.)

But one of my gay male friends told me that this is also controversial in gay male circles. He said something like: "The majority of gay men are bottoms, but few of them would like to admit it." My sexologist once said that she believed the majority of both men and women were submissive in bed. That is not exactly the same as being a bottom, I agree, but it is related.

Could it be that this desire to be the receptive one is quite common among men, in the same way as many (but not all) FTM crossdreamers dream of being on top?
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Joined: November 17th, 2015, 11:32 am

January 25th, 2016, 12:20 pm #3

The top / bottom dimension has played a role in my journey as well. Historically, I think I have been bi in that regard with elements of my makeup on both sides. As a male, I was ridiculously romantic. I needed a lot of emotion tied into the prelude up to the sex act to be aroused. My female partners usually took the lead in the early foreplay. I would start out as the bottom but at some point the roles would flip and I would become the top. But in my crossdream fantasies I was always very much the bottom. I suspect that this why I often found myself wanting after sex. As the years went on, this feeling after sex became increasingly intense. At one point, it started to cross over into the feeling of being used and I was a piece of meat. Then I went on hormones. A lot of trans MtFs will say that hormones decrease libido. I have not found that to be exactly the case. But it seems to have impacted me in regards to this whole top / bottom dimension. I clearly don't like the top position much at all anymore, and that plays somewhat into how a look at my orientation. and how I view the relative desirability of males and females.
Last edited by April on January 25th, 2016, 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: November 18th, 2015, 1:05 pm

January 25th, 2016, 12:33 pm #4

My wife and I are both bottoms. We just take turns. It's the polite thing to do!
Lindsay

"The thing is you see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear, dig?" the Pointed Man
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Joined: November 19th, 2015, 5:22 am

January 25th, 2016, 2:20 pm #5

I never quite get the top and bottom thing.... OK so I'm not exactly overburdened with sexual experience, but doesn't one roll about when making love, hence the phrase 'a roll in the hay'.. hence taking it in turned, even in the same exual moment?
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Joined: November 19th, 2015, 7:39 am

January 25th, 2016, 3:34 pm #6

Virgin either with similar comment. What that top/bottom even means... On the other hand... He he. What use I will have from that information? Probably, nothing.
Your mind is software. Program it.
Your body is a shell. Change it.
Death is a disease. Cure it.
Extinction is approaching. Fight it!

© "Eclipse Phase" by Posthuman Studios
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Joined: November 18th, 2015, 9:10 pm

January 25th, 2016, 4:11 pm #7

Thanks for your thoughtful responses.

As I understand it, "bottom" has a spectrum of meanings.  In gay circles I think it really does mean penetration, and BDSM is by nature about playing with the extremes of top/bottom power.  Clearly getting pegged is all about being bottom. I have never been particularly drawn to BDSM or pegging, but I may well find it to be an outlet to it if I pursued it with the depth that pursued TG erotica for a few years.  Though all the hardware, costume, and role play that comes with it seems a bit unnecessary to tap into the basic power relationships at work here.

But in wider definitions, the simplest context I think it can also mean just being receptive of sexual attention. But it is not the physical act that makes it top/bottom but the mental state in which arousal, foreplay, and sex is engaged in.  There is passive responsive sexuality and aggressive pursuing sexuality.  As PipX points out top/bottom often moves back and forth between with the partners exchanging active and passive roles which seems to support Jack's question that everyone is, at least to some extent, a bottom.  My crossdreaming feels like the need to be pursued and admired.  Crossdreaming for me is at its most raw subconcious level the bottom instinct that finds force and existence in my conciousness in the fantasy of TG transformation. 

But I did find the movie The Secretary very sexy and Gyllenhal in particular in this movie was super sexy -wow- is she hot in this movie.  I liked the playful nature of the The Secretrary over what I have seen of 50 Shades of Grey (trailers and the cover of the book) which seem to be too serious and pretentious. 

Sometimes I wonder if I just want a women so feminine and so submissive, yet receptive, that it obscures or overcomes my own feminine or 'less than masculine' ways in which I feel.  A girl to be the Yin to my middling Yang because I can't get comfortable with being the yin to someone elses yang in a gender context.  sex and relationships are fun because it plays opposites and being in the middle makes it harder to see those contrasts.



 
Last edited by Koloa on January 25th, 2016, 10:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Joined: November 18th, 2015, 9:10 pm

January 25th, 2016, 4:36 pm #8

Lainhart wrote:
Virgin either with similar comment. What that top/bottom even means... On the other hand... He he. What use I will have from that information? Probably, nothing.
Top:  Pursuing, penetrating, chasing, leading, agressive arousal.

Bottom:  Receptive, penetrated, shying away, being led, passive arousal.

It makes total sense to me that you need to be experienced with sex to understand the top/bottom experience fully.

Watch the sex scenes from the Outlander series.  It is a romance novel so draws heavily on these themes.  Claire is 95% bottom despitre being a strong women.  Look at how Jamie drills her--even penetrates her with his eyes and she slightly looks away shys away and slmost swoons.  He then throws her on the bed and does what wants as she writhes around. This is top vs bottom in vanilla sex.  Her getting on top and riding him is her wrestling to top role away from him for brief moments.  You should try it sometime.




 
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Joined: November 26th, 2015, 11:48 am

January 25th, 2016, 9:50 pm #9

I think it's necessary to separate the top/bottom distinction from the dominant/submissive one. A top can also be submissive and vice versa. A common complaint from dommes is "topping from the bottom." This is basically where a sub wants to be bottom but plays an essentially dominant role in the interaction. For example, topping from the bottom often involved bringing a laundry list of fetishes that the domme is supposed to fulfill and guidelines to follow regardless of her own feelings or pleasure.

But, Koloa, I can relate a lot to what you're saying. I have also been diagnosed with social anxiety disorder and to some extent, I think it both plays into and results from my submissiveness. Both my submissive and crossdreaming urges arose very early for me, probably around 6 or 7. But for me, that's sort of where it begins and ends -- I have no urge to be a top, dominant, or masculine in a romantic relationship. I realized that much of my social anxiety concerning relationships revolved around my fear that I could never be "the man" in relationships. Once I eliminated that element by becoming involved in BDSM, everything became a lot easier for me.
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Joined: November 19th, 2015, 7:39 am

January 26th, 2016, 5:38 am #10

Koloa wrote:
You should try it sometime.
Good joke! 

Thanks for explanation, though. Huh... I think I always imagined myself bottom, but lack of attraction is a killer. 
Unless one day, I will manage to make myself lust for other people that way, this information is as much as useful in my daily life, as diameter of the moon's orbit. That is to say: not much. 
Your mind is software. Program it.
Your body is a shell. Change it.
Death is a disease. Cure it.
Extinction is approaching. Fight it!

© "Eclipse Phase" by Posthuman Studios
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