I'm scared

Off topic discussions.
April
Joined: 17 Nov 2015, 16:32

10 Aug 2017, 00:11 #11

Like yourself, he seemed to be worried about the obsessive nature of his crossdreaming - that it was taking over his life. He wanted to get control over it.
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oreb
Joined: 14 May 2017, 21:32

10 Aug 2017, 00:50 #12

In my case the crossdreaming itself could be easily quaranteened if I took that decision based on some certainty on the nature of crossdreaming. The problem is whether refusing to explore where it might come from would mean completely renouncing to something perhaps very valuable. I haven't been never truly happy since I hit puberty. Most of the time in fact pretty fucked up. Things are not going well for me. But I know that even if they did I wouldn't be netirely happy. I did manage to go through some hoops lately. People close to me where telling me to feel proud, but it all left me.. sad. Probably I'm asking too much from life.

These days is the obsessiveness of the thinking about crossdreaming and the pressure I exert on it for it to finally spew all its secrets that sometimes spills into the crossdreaming itself. The shame and the excessive sexual component of my later adolescence is not there any more. That eased some of the anxiety, but I still don't feel content and in sync with the world. I cannot dream of any future.

 So I cannot completely rule out the possibility that what felt as euphoria is in fact the way most people experience the world all the time. But that I cannot recall those feelins. I can only recall thoughts and more thoughts. I can only speculate about it. Only the inertia of thinking is left now. And I'm getting scared. I don't know where I am nor what I'm doing.
Don't trust them, Steven.
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Deborah Kate
Joined: 26 Nov 2015, 21:58

11 Aug 2017, 10:19 #13

^^ re Koloa, his early posts boasted of how he had cured himself of the crossdreaming he reviled through a 'quit looking at porn' program, turning himself back into a red-blooded cis hetero. he gradually lost faith in this program.

Oreb, i can understand your 'gotta get outta here' feeling. i have felt that. a major, very private part of your life suddenly becoming the focus of social interaction, situating something individual to you within commonly shared experience, is a very big change, the excitement of which is likely to feel overwhelming, impacting upon the actual crossdreaming. for crossdreaming (and CDL's role for you in relation to it) to settle (relatively) as a very important, benign but not too dominating part of life is likely to be a gradual process, the progress towards it erratic. it's cool to take a break from CDL. you will always be thoroughly welcome back again. if you take your leave, i'd recommend not posting a grand final goodbye, as this might create embarrassment upon return (many members have done this; i did it once; Koloa did it several times).

i think that, for most crossdreamers, really accepting the identity 'crossdreamer', really accepting crossdreaming as a fully acceptable part of who you are, really enjoying it's pleasures as not being guilty pleasures, is a deep development, much more easily said that fully done. i think too many skate over this with an attitude of 'i'm ok about crossdreaming, that's no big deal. point is, what is it a symptom of or is it harmful illusion?' i don't think this diagnostic approach is a positive attitude to your sexual and gender feelings.

you appreciate philosophical complexities particularly well, Oreb - i enjoy reading your writing about them. the most pertinent philosophical areas, i would say, are ontology (i.e. it's not just good 'real' life versus bad 'false' fantasy - basically Koloa's position) and the complexity of the self. intellectual doubt on trans interpretation is very real - it is not just defensive denial. i think it is best not to make your emotional well-being dependent on resolving the doubt.

love,
Deb xx
 
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oreb
Joined: 14 May 2017, 21:32

11 Aug 2017, 13:42 #14

Many thanks for your thoughtful and friendly reply, Deborah :-)).
Although it feels almost as if we came from entirely different planets. I'll give you a more detailed response later.
Don't trust them, Steven.
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oreb
Joined: 14 May 2017, 21:32

12 Aug 2017, 02:42 #15

I'm sorry I'm extremely tired. I cannot guarantee what I write is even gramatically correct. But let's try.
    Oreb, i can understand your 'gotta get outta here' feeling. i have felt that. a major, very private part of your life suddenly becoming the focus of social interaction, situating something individual to you within commonly shared experience, is a very big change, the excitement of which is likely to feel overwhelming, impacting upon the actual crossdreaming. for crossdreaming (and CDL's role for you in relation to it) to settle (relatively) as a very important, benign but not too dominating part of life is likely to be a gradual process, the progress towards it erratic. it's cool to take a break from CDL. you will always be thoroughly welcome back again. if you take your leave, i'd recommend not posting a grand final goodbye, as this might create embarrassment upon return (many members have done this; i did it once; Koloa did it several times).

    i think that, for most crossdreamers, really accepting the identity 'crossdreamer', really accepting crossdreaming as a fully acceptable part of who you are, really enjoying it's pleasures as not being guilty pleasures, is a deep development, much more easily said that fully done. i think too many skate over this with an attitude of 'i'm ok about crossdreaming, that's no big deal. point is, what is it a symptom of or is it harmful illusion?' i don't think this diagnostic approach is a positive attitude to your sexual and gender feelings.

    you appreciate philosophical complexities particularly well, Oreb - i enjoy reading your writing about them. the most pertinent philosophical areas, i would say, are ontology (i.e. it's not just good 'real' life versus bad 'false' fantasy - basically Koloa's position) and the complexity of the self. intellectual doubt on trans interpretation is very real - it is not just defensive denial. i think it is best not to make your emotional well-being dependent on resolving the doubt.
Ok, I'm not sure I would describe my situation as being overwhelmed by excitement. Nor has having to do with fear of exposure. The degree of absorption is worrying me in terms of inertia. I guess I felt I could quickly find the answers I was looking for here, given a strong enough initial impulse or something. And now I realize I'm pretty much stuck running in circles. Answering the questions is not just about some spurious need to define oneself. There are very concrete practical implications to it. And time is running fast. 

But why should what you describe be the expected outcome of crossdreaming? And what would that exactly mean? There are many different paths one migth try following, other than trying to purge the fantasies away.
For example one might relegate the sexual component to an angle of one's mind while progressively accomodating the, let's say purely emotional needs (to be desired, not having to be constantly armored against the world, etc.) fullfilled by crossdreaming into one's daily life. It is not required from me nor I derive any sense of satisfaction from presenting to the world a stereotipically masculine persona. For the most part, masculinity looks like some sort of strambotic circus to me. I have become a bit fond of the incredibly ascetic lord of abstraction schizoid act. But on the long run I can probably overcome of most of my fears of 'losing status' and allow myself plenty of freedom, at least in terms of emotional expression. Maybe some of the other stuff turns out more hard to dissociate from this "being woman" schema. But is that because of some mental "block" that can be melted away with a bit more of extra effort?

The sexual component... More of the same. Depending on what the true explanation of the data you might want to search for a certain kind of partner or the other. The same sexual fantasy could work for two different people in two different ways. For the first it might make more sense to search for a dom partner in fetlife. The second turns out is some sort of heterosexual bottom, for whom it. Maybe this person should look for a female partner who's herself a bit more on the masculine side in terms of sexual behaviour/attitude (less so in terms of likes), maybe a bit of a revolutionary as well. I'm afraid for the third is going almost impossible to enjoy sex with a partner with that body: wrong reactions, wrong mappings, wrong everything. All power of concentration would have to be diverted from the partner to the creation of the right virtual body. They should transition.. should they? If this incongruence manifests itself only during sex maybe one can just srug it off. There are purely romantic asexual relationships out there, after all. And so on. Theory is everywhere. Pure observation and practice do not exist.

The situation is complicated enough without the whole trans-awakening and hidden dysphoria paranoias.

These are all important decisions. Maybe not a symptom, but crossdreaming contains a huge amount of important clues.

I want my life to be, as much as possible, a unitary whole and I'm of the opinion that what gives meaning to feelings is ultimately how they fit in the larger scheme of things. I have only one life to spare, I don't feel like settling for the easiest stable status quo without having put some real effort in getting a full picture of the situation. I'm a bit worried of ending up with an important part of my existence consisting of a shadow life made out of borrowed snippets, perpetually alienated from the "conversation" in which the meaning of those cultural tokens evolves. What if those important feelings eventually get stale an whither in such an arrangement?

I appreciate the people and the conversation here very much. But the thought of CDL becoming some sort of 'institution' in my life gives me the chills. I don't really like institutions very much. I prefer public squares and parks, maybe bars too, with their regulars and strangers.

The world will tell me what the appropriate role of my crossdreaming is. Yes, the world is my oracle now, dude.
Sorry, is a bit late. I'm losing it.
Don't trust them, Steven.
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Fabienne
Joined: 16 Apr 2017, 20:06

12 Aug 2017, 11:33 #16

I fully understand your situation, though not the personal angles obviously. I'm quite an obsessive person myself, wanting to learn everything about any subject in as short a time as possible and taking into account all the variables present; in other words I'm an information sponge and luckily I've got the brain to pull it off. However there must be a balance. I've found that pushing something away often makes it come closer, the same for pulling something towards you making something more distant and harder to grasp. Stepping back or distracting myself with another project are ways in which I cope with this as I often can't drop a subject willingly. All of us here will understand if you stepped away from CDL for an unspecified amount of time, even if we, me included think you add an interesting angle to various topics. I'm currently reading more on here as crossdreaming is on my mind a lot lately and I don't have much academic distraction going on at the moment. All I can say is that an interstellar probe drifting somewhere in a galaxy of gender identity is not necessarily lost or still seeking. That may just be who you are; a drifter (and nothing's wrong with that). For me I'm physically male, during my overall daily life I'm genderless and asexual, and sexually and emotionally (through crossdreaming) I'm female and lesbian. It's a tangled ball of confusion at times, but it's just who I am.
X, Fabienne
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April
Joined: 17 Nov 2015, 16:32

13 Aug 2017, 00:32 #17

Oreb,

"A house divided against itself cannot stand."  -  Abraham Lincoln
 
Neither can a soul, at least not forever.
 
But you actually can contain and wall off parts of your soul for a very time. I know this is possible because I did it for decades. When I was younger, I had very high ambitions for my life. I wanted to have an incredible career, and I saw my gender issues as being totally inconsistent with that objective, so I tried to carefully control them and wall them off. I did this by outwardly becoming as masculine as I could in my real life, and building and insurmountable wall between it and my inner self.  
 
For the most part, I was largely successful with that, but there were periods when it all broke down, rather badly I might add. This usually happened during times of extreme stress elsewhere in my life. I retreated to the trans part of me in those moments. That process would completely take over my life to the exclusion of everything else. Nothing else would really matter in those moments, whether that was my job, personal relationships, or even simple tasks like doing the laundry or buying groceries. But all those things eventually had to be dealt with, and I dragged myself back. Weekends of dreaming of another life, followed by a terrible Monday morning hangover where I felt utterly disconnected. The pieces of my life were at war with one another and all sides were losing.
 
The hottest term in the therapeutic community these days is “integration”. In the simplest of terms, it refers to being all of one-self at all times.  That is what I completely lacked in my life prior to my current journey. Looking back on my prior life, I feel like everything I did was just a little bit harder because of how much I compartmentalized everything. I won’t blame that for every bad outcome I had in my previous life, but it clearly took a toll. 
 
I'm not inclined to give advice to anybody, but I do believe that the integration of the various pieces of one’s life is absolutely necessary for both happiness and success. The problem here for you as I see it is that you are going to need to turn inward and look at who you really are, and what you really need and want from your life, and then try to make every part of your life fit into that. That process could open a Pandora’s Box for you, which might lead you to some place you didn’t expect or were initially prepared to go. But from reading your posts, I suspect you already sense that. I wish you best of luck on wherever you may go or decide to do.
 
 
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oreb
Joined: 14 May 2017, 21:32

13 Aug 2017, 23:18 #18

Thanks a lot for your words, April!

As I see it, it is crucial to look inside myself to properly evaluate the nature of the material I have to work with, but I don't believe there is such thing as "who I really are" to be found there.
The blueprint is not inside me, but out there, all over the place. To find my proper place in the scheme of things is what I really want. And the knowledge of it to strike me like lightning.
Unfortunately, unresolved issues, weakness and narcissism get in the way.
Don't trust them, Steven.
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April
Joined: 17 Nov 2015, 16:32

13 Aug 2017, 23:45 #19

Oreb, That's an intriguing philosophy that I'm not sure I fully understand. Are you suggesting that the answer for your life can be found in gained knowledge or understanding? I believe that when I was younger I had similar ideas, but I am not sure that I completely trust my memory in that regard now. I do know that I studied a lot of philosophy and religion, and was fascinated with all sorts of trendy ideas about self improvement. I also know that I was looking for a eureka moment where everything in the universe would become clear to me, including how I fit into it all. But I found eureka moments to be incredibly rare. It was only after I had cancer and was confronted with my own mortality that I decided to look deep inside to find what would make me the happiest. 
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Jen
Joined: 18 Nov 2015, 05:33

14 Aug 2017, 01:58 #20

Isn't traveling and walking around the city helping you, oreb?  Continue with the art observation: sculptures, architecture, etc.  People watching helps too. 
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