Flying animals and gravity?

PortentosaMan
Infant
Joined: 8:34 PM - Dec 22, 2016

1:40 PM - Jul 05, 2017 #1

What changes in wing size will happen when a planet have lower or higher gravity?
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Flisch
Superhuman
Joined: 10:54 AM - May 28, 2008

1:53 PM - Jul 05, 2017 #2

Gravity is not really all that important for wing size (and body size in general). The bigger factor is atmospheric density. Remember, in a vacuum, a feather and a coin fall at the same speed.

Gravity is more important about lifting off and even more so for landing. Subsequently, gravity quite possibly influences how easy it is for large flying organisms to evolve flight. On a low grav world, animals of all sizes can take to the air quite comfortably (if atmospheric density is conductive for flight that is) while on high grav worlds, flight will likely be evolved by smaller insect-sized organisms which then radiate into larger niches. Technically, gravity affects how many groups of unrelated fliers exist, the spread of flight so to say, while atmospheric density moves the body size limit for flying organisms.

As an aside, passive drifting, like airborne seed dispersal and 'parachuting baby spiders' is not informed by gravity at all but solely by atmospheric density.
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LittleLazyLass
Impossible
Joined: 6:33 PM - Jun 18, 2014

7:40 PM - Jul 05, 2017 #3

I imagine it'd be wing anatomy rather than wing size that'd be different on alien planets. All groups of flying organisms have pretty radically different wings, and all evolved flight in different ways, so it'd be surprising if there wasn't even more diversity among alien wings.
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opeFool
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Joined: 2:36 AM - Feb 25, 2017

8:35 PM - Jul 05, 2017 #4

How can once take a guess at the right amount of wing needed to lift an animal up into the air?
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LittleLazyLass
Impossible
Joined: 6:33 PM - Jun 18, 2014

8:41 PM - Jul 05, 2017 #5

Math?
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As they walk in, they're greeted by a small, poorly kept pathway leading to a poorly constructed Japanese-style gate. Behind this, a small field made up of corn, rice, wheat, potatoes, among other plants is contrasted by large piles of books, as well as a few rather out of place looking laptops. Off in the corner, a small woman, with long, striped, and strikingly colorful socks, no shoes, unremarkable denim shorts, a large, fancy black coat, arm warmers, glasses, a tuque, and somewhat unkempt, mid-length blue-and-pink-streaked red hair, is rummaging through a trash bin, located behind a sign saying "employees only". She continues this for a while (walking behind a wall to change her outfit now and then), until one of her visitors coughs. Startled, she looks up, apologizes, and grabs a handful of textbooks and novels before daintily running off to join them.
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Predenterra
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Sorry if I come off as rude, I don't put much thought into word choice sometimes. I'm also super prone to editing my posts, sometimes multiple times, in the minutes following posting.
For the love of god, take my posts from my earlier days on the forum with a grain of salt. I was not particularly knowledgeable or mature back then. Some of them are so cringe-worthy I can't even bring myself to look at them.
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Words To Spec By wrote:It would have to be something extremely alien, pushing the limits of our imagination. But those are always my favorite kinds of life. ~~The Words of The Xenologist
Words To Live By wrote:Ignorance is never insulting if you're willing to learn, we're all ignorant about most things. ~~The Words of Lamna
Words I Live By wrote:Yeah, and even if you don't agree with creationists on that concept, that doesn't mean they can't be decent people. I have friends who are creationist (possibly even young earth) that I get along with fine in general life. I don't think they're right of course, but that doesn't make them intellectual degenerates. ~~The Words of forbidden3
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jman123 wrote:Ass-breathing fish-lizards? Sounds like a punk rock band
Sheather wrote:"Holy fucking shit a toilet paper roll! Our favorite thing!"
Urufumarukai wrote:Tyrannosaurus aquastronka
Kamineigh wrote:Myo, if you don't stop reading the YouTube comments...
Lamna wrote:Are you saying what I think you're saying?

Sheather bathes in cum?
Cephylus wrote:And last night I dreamed I was blowing up a Kindergarten with a grenade launcher for no particular reason...
revin wrote:Oh, and of course more people get killed by selfies than by sharks. Of course.
Parasky wrote:SHEEEEAAAAATTTTTTHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!
whachamacalit2 wrote:The smell of rotting flesh really kills my appetite, surprising, but the visual appearance of corpses makes me hungry. Is that weird?
Ebervalius wrote: I mean, let us say I'm a genderfluid blurflux demi-romantic woman who is sexually attracted to men, but only if they are Melanesian and have a voice like that of Nicholas Cage. Okay, so what?
trex841 wrote:When I first saw that picture, I thought you were dissecting a condom.
Mr Mysterio wrote:All hail Robo-Stalin.
Peashyjah wrote:Seems like everything in this project is now dead.
Stealth Rock wrote:Seagulls are pretty much trees, right?
Watcher wrote:We all must finish chapters of our lives to go on to the next. Sometime this means leaving behind versions of ourselves that don't want to die.
Yiqi15 wrote:For April fool's, we had to make an orgasm that resembled a human foot.
Flisch wrote:im the black market
CaledonianWarrior96 wrote:He was a skater birb, she said tweet you later birb
Most People at Some Point wrote:
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Some dude called plucas1 from Youtube comments wrote:Funny, isn't it, that our world needs Clark Kent a lot more than Superman.
Xenoblade Chronicles wrote:Even though he is our creator, that does not afford him the right to take our lives on a whim.
But that is the thinking of a homs. He is a god. Such morals cannot apply to gods.
So you think we should just shut up and die?!
If that is the fate decided by a god.
You are mistaken if you think we will simply accept such a fate and wait to die.
We'll never stop fighting. Not till the end.
To Zanza, the outcome is the same. Thus your logic is flawed.
Hades - Kid Icarus Uprising wrote:When freaky aliens give you lemons, make freaky alien lemonade.
Kid Icarus Uprising wrote:But Souls are delicious. They're like bacon - they taste good on anything.
But if you eat them, you completely remove them from existence! They can't move on or... or be reincarnated!
Huh. I never really gave it much thought. Besides, what do you mean by reincarnation anyway?
You know, being reborn as someone or something else.
Which means different body, different memories, different experiences, yes? So isn't being reborn as "something else" the same as being "removed from existence"?
I... I... eating souls isn't right!
That depends on your definition of "right". All living things survive by eating other living things.
So what? You're a god. You should be above all that!
Gods are above living things, which doesn't necessarily mean we care about them.
Some Dude on BBC Two wrote:You are being shagged... by a flightless parrot.
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opeFool
Adolescent
Joined: 2:36 AM - Feb 25, 2017

8:44 PM - Jul 05, 2017 #6

Little wrote:Math?
Oh no... I was hoping there were and easier way. Welp, guess I'll have to do math
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"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
"There seems to me too much misery in the world. I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent and omnipotent God would have designedly created the Ichneumonidae with the express intention of their feeding within the living bodies of caterpillars..."
"If you truly love Nature, you will find beauty everywhere."
"My opinions are formed from a perfect blend of science and morality and as such I am an unassailable bastion of absolute truth. All opinions are subjective but mine are objectively the least subjective."
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Joined: 7:53 PM - Jul 21, 2008

8:30 AM - Aug 12, 2017 #7

Perhaps I can help a bit. I once wrote a post on scaling animals and the effects on bone diameter. The effects of scaling on wing area are very similar and were worked out in the messages below the post.

http://planetfuraha.blogspot.nl/2010/06 ... -does.html

Essentially, if you increase the length, width and height of the body of your flying animal by a factor x, you should increase the wing by a larger factor: x to the power of 1.5. If you do that, the lift to weight ratio will be the same (not exactly because the wing increases in mass as wel, but never mind).

But your question was about changing gravity. Weight increases linearly with the gravity constant. So if you double gravity, you will double weight, and you will also have to double lift. There are various ways to do so:
- double atmospheric density
- make the animal fly faster
- change wing area: its has to double, so the length, width and height of the wing have to increase by the square root of 2, about 1.4

I hope this helps. I could write a proper post on the subject of flight, taking scaling, gravity and atmospheric density into consideration. should I?
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PortentosaMan
Infant
Joined: 8:34 PM - Dec 22, 2016

6:07 PM - Aug 14, 2017 #8

[
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quote=Sigmund Nastrazzurro,(time=1502526621)]Perhaps I can help a bit. I once wrote a post on scaling animals and the effects on bone diameter. The effects of scaling on wing area are very similar and were worked out in the messages below the post.

http://planetfuraha.blogspot.nl/2010/06 ... -does.html

Essentially, if you increase the length, width and height of the body of your flying animal by a factor x, you should increase the wing by a larger factor: x to the power of 1.5. If you do that, the lift to weight ratio will be the same (not exactly because the wing increases in mass as wel, but never mind).

But your question was about changing gravity. Weight increases linearly with the gravity constant. So if you double gravity, you will double weight, and you will also have to double lift. There are various ways to do so:
- double atmospheric density
- make the animal fly faster
- change wing area: its has to double, so the length, width and height of the wing have to increase by the square root of 2, about 1.4

I hope this helps. I could write a proper post on the subject of flight, taking scaling, gravity and atmospheric density into consideration. should I?
[/quote
]I think you should do it!
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Akurian452
Adult
Joined: 2:05 AM - May 21, 2012

7:41 PM - Aug 14, 2017 #9

@ Sigmund Nastrazzurro: Do the same rules apply to gliding animals as well?
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Joined: 7:53 PM - Jul 21, 2008

3:43 PM - Aug 15, 2017 #10

I had a day off, for once did not feel like painting, it was raining a lot and so I sat down and wrote a post on 'flying animals or the art of weight lifting'. It needs some editing, so I will post it in a day or two; there may be other posts on the subject in the future.
And yes, the rules apply to gliding animals too.
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