Joined: 5:39 AM - Aug 10, 2017

6:07 AM - Dec 21, 2017 #8701

There has been a lot of partisan BS, but as far as I can tell the plan will mean less taxes for most people.  The larger standard deduction will cause a lot of people to not deduct, and that will impact housing, charitable deductions, etc.  To me, those unintended consequences is probably the biggest problem with the tax plan.  I don't have any confidence in Trump thinking that part through.

One more thing,  I also think a lot of these changes were aimed at hardcore democrats to score some points.  Changing the rules on writing off state and local taxes really hurts high tax states in the NE and California, and those States are heavily Democrat.  

fwiw, my taxes are going down $6k next year under the new plan.
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6:10 AM - Dec 21, 2017 #8702

I forgot one part:  I do think the plan benefits the rich, but when was the last time we had an overhaul that didn't benefit the rich?  

Also, there are winners and losers in every plan, and this one seems to have mostly winners.  The problem is where will me make up the increased budget shortfall?  
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6:13 AM - Dec 21, 2017 #8703

The problem is where will me make up the increased budget shortfall?  
Especially since the next bill slated by Republicans at the start of the new year is a big infrastructure spending bill.   BTW, I am a huge fan of infrastructure spending so I don't want to be a hypocrite I am just angered at the hypocrisy of the Tea Party who only cared about spending when the black guy was in charge.  
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11:25 AM - Dec 21, 2017 #8704

Once again of course conservative thoughts are driven by nothing but being a bunch of racists.  Sorry Doc, but Kind of a pathetic post and comment.  I just think it is
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sec realist
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12:21 PM - Dec 21, 2017 #8705

There is a massive divide among Republicans right now. Check out Frum's latest.

BN, you always seem to defends the GOP. Fine, I suppose. Denying there is a large portiin of racists in that party right now is head in the sand nuts. But whatever.

The tax bill is a joke. Middle class my ass! Numbers don't lie.

The bottom quintile gets $60.

The next quintile gets $310.

The middle gets $840.

The next gets $1590.

The top 1% gets $37,000.

The top .1% gets $178,000.

And tax cuts for all groups - EXCEPT THE TOP 1 % - go away by 2027.

Next up? Benefit cuts, because we can't afford them of course.

What a fucking joke!
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1:36 PM - Dec 21, 2017 #8706

I never denied there were racists in the GOP.  I am sure there is.  I am sure there is on the left wing as well.  What I said was implying the decisions of conservatives are solely driven by racist thoughts is a pathetic comment.  different things. 
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1:45 PM - Dec 21, 2017 #8707

I don't recall the time I saw a Confederate battle flag sticker on the back of a Prius, but perhaps.
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2:22 PM - Dec 21, 2017 #8708

sec realist wrote: I don't recall the time I saw a Confederate battle flag sticker on the back of a Prius, but perhaps.
I saw it out here in Boulder.  The best part was there was also an Auburn sticker!  lol.  

btw, I think the racism in the GOP thing is a Southern thing.  I've had to explain this to a lot of people here in Colorado, because race is really not an issue.  In the South everything is framed around race whether it's spoken or not.  
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3:51 AM - Dec 22, 2017 #8709

That's a good point. Perhaps that's why BN is always up in arms when racism and GOP are mentioned together - he doesn't have the same experiences as others here do, being from Ohio.

It's closely intertwined everywhere I've lived, even Miami. In Florida it's a feature, not a bug.
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3:54 AM - Dec 22, 2017 #8710

I'll also say that I have a newfound respect for intellectual conservatives like Frum and Rubin and Schmidt. I don't agree with them on much of their worldview, but I respect their points more now than before.
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4:24 AM - Dec 22, 2017 #8711

I do want to respond.    I said the black guy comment tongue in cheek but Nut's response is interesting.   Nut, I still love ya, I really do but on this one we are going to have to agree to disagree.  I watched the hatred from many on the right for every little thing Obama did and said that was out of proportion for just politics.  I have watched Trump overturn anything with Obama's name on it in an attempt to erase any legacy even if it was things like polluting our water or removing our national parks which an overwhelming majority of Americas are against.  I watched Charlottesville, Puerto Rico, Dreamers and realize there is a theme.  Trump refusing to deny David Duke.  I could go on.   There is no doubt that at the very least Trump is pandering to white supremacist which should disgust us all.  

And since I am getting under Nut's skin I would like to point out the list of words this administration has told the CDC they can no longer use.   Words like "diversity," "fetus," "transgender," "vulnerable," "entitlement," "science-based" and "evidence-based."  Lets start with an administration who wants to ban words.  That is terrifying and points to every fascist regime in history.   Now lets consider this administration would prefer we not use evidence-based and science-based, the core of modern medicine.  To me it is just more evidence that an anti-science wing has taken root in this administration.

In conclusion, if you are one of the 32% of Americans who still support Trump (and Nut, I do realize you have always separated yourself from him) then you have had to make peace with the fact that at least part of Trump's base are racist and anti-science.  That is a Faustian bargain I would be unable to make personally.  
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6:56 AM - Dec 22, 2017 #8712

I am not arguing there are not racist people or that for some that might drive actions.  I'm saying lumping all conservatives into that bucket, or somewhat saying as you did that was the sole reason for votes or actions is wrong.  

It is a very weak argument. Instead of deciding perhaps the other side had valid points or counter points, it's just easier to say wow it just must be because you are a racist.  That just had to be the reason, I know it...
I know it is convenient to just lump sum of us together like that but it's insulting and short sided.  
Btw You are not under my skin, no matter how much it appears you want to try to be.   I never insulted you, I commented I thought the one comment was week. Different things.  You are one of my favorite folks on here, I look forward to your posts.  I love laughing with you about Tennessee etc.  Please separate my issue with the content from issues with you.
PS just to clarify I can't stand Trump.  He is an embarrassment to the office and the country.  I liked Kasich and hoped he would of won.  If not I would of been fine with Obama in again, Biden would of been great I think.  Sorry I can't think H Clinton is anything but a greasy crooked Bitch though.  Different issue however to debate.

Hope my comments make sense
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7:02 AM - Dec 22, 2017 #8713

They do.  I love your posts even here on the political board because it is a different point of view.  Real, Creek and myself sometimes started to feel like an echo chamber.   

My big issue right now is separating Trump from the RNC.  Like you I really can't stand the guy and his reckless tweets.  I feel he is bringing shame to the office and to the role of Commander in Chief which I respect completely.  I do think he is a little racist or, like I said above, pandering to a racist base which ticks me off.  At this point I would be much happier with Pence just because he is stable. 
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9:06 AM - Dec 22, 2017 #8714

DocVOLiday wrote:Real, Creek and myself sometimes started to feel like an echo chamber.   
I almost posted something about this earlier, but decided to go for a run.  You brought it up, so here goes...

We all live in a dangerous echo chamber where we are fed BS to keep us believing.  You mentioned David Dukes and Trump above for example.  Sure, Trump gladly took the racist vote, but what about Hillary?  The easy example is Sen Byrd.  The guy was a leader of the KKK at a time when they were lynching people, he originally ran on a racists platform, and he filibustered the equal rights amendment.  Bill Clinton called him a mentor.  Hillary loved him.  I would have punched the SOB in the mouth, but why did the Clintons butter up to him?  For votes.  It's blind tribalism to give the Clintons a pass for Byrd and people like him, but tar and feather Trump for David Dukes.  The party bosses need this blind tribalism above everything else.

Trump has a low approval rating, but I guarantee he will get re-elected if the Democrats run another Clinton type candidate.  Trump is exactly the type of president he promised to be.  

btw, I'm constantly trying to get out of my echo chamber, and I don't think I'm winning.  We are so segregated by where we live that all of our friends agree with us.  We go to the news sites that we agree with.  We defriend people on social media who don't agree with us.  We end up believing that everyone who doesn't agree with us is stupid, a racist, unpatriotic, selfish, etc.. 
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11:55 AM - Dec 22, 2017 #8715

Affirmation not information.

I read a lot of sources, and watch very few. Journalism sucks when it's personality driven.
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8:25 AM - Jan 09, 2018 #8716

I could not tell from the telecast.  Was that boo's when Trump came out?   It is hard to imagine a more Republican crowd than a college football championship game in Atlanta.   
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9:18 AM - Jan 09, 2018 #8717

DocVOLiday wrote: I could not tell from the telecast.  Was that boo's when Trump came out?   It is hard to imagine a more Republican crowd than a college football championship game in Atlanta.   
No idea now where I saw the article, I think ESPN, but they said it was mostly cheering.

I hope they're was respectful clapping at least.
I'm not a Trump fan, said that before. And I think it's great we are in a country we can openly disagree with policies etc. But there is a difference between disagreements and disrespect. I think the office should be respected no matter who is in it. Maybe that's just how I feel. If have the same comments for Clinton, Obama etc
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9:22 AM - Jan 09, 2018 #8718

I agree.  I saw someone projected Fuck Trump really large on the side of the stadium as the motorcade was driving up.  I might be concerned about his ability to lead but he is still the Commander in Chief.   You really only hurt your side when you get classless like that. 
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9:29 AM - Jan 09, 2018 #8719

This was per an article i just googled from NY Times. Not really sure the accuracy but it's something...

Mr. Trump made no remarks after entering the stadium to loud cheers and a smattering of boos from the enthusiastic college football fans.
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5:20 AM - Jan 14, 2018 #8720

DocVOLiday wrote: I agree.  I saw someone projected Fuck Trump really large on the side of the stadium as the motorcade was driving up.  I might be concerned about his ability to lead but he is still the Commander in Chief.   You really only hurt your side when you get classless like that. 
then Trump has been hurting his side since he was elected ... he is completely classless ... 
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7:10 AM - Jan 14, 2018 #8721

Should the USA take immigrants based on diversity and the immigrants needs or on their ability to contribute to the economy?  
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2:29 PM - Jan 19, 2018 #8722

Anyone have any insight if the government will shut down?   I am in limbo right now.  This is supposed to be my Army Reserve weekend and our UA just sent us a message that if the government shuts down our drill weekend is cancelled.  I guess I will just get up early and check the news to see if I need to travel to the Unit.  
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11:29 AM - Jan 21, 2018 #8723

brown dog wrote: Should the USA take immigrants based on diversity and the immigrants needs or on their ability to contribute to the economy?  
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ren-216332
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11:45 AM - Jan 21, 2018 #8724

Quick question that I am having a surprisingly hard time answering. Since the Republicans run all branches of government do they need any votes from Democrats to pass a budget?
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11:56 AM - Jan 21, 2018 #8725

DocVOLiday wrote: Quick question that I am having a surprisingly hard time answering.  Since the Republicans run all branches of government do they need any votes from Democrats to pass a budget?
I don't know the exact numbers but I know they need some Dem votes to get it to pass. Not even all of the Republicans voted yes, some Dems voted yes though, I think the trade off was about equal. The blame game going on right now is pretty amazing
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6:40 AM - Jan 22, 2018 #8726

disenter wrote:
brown dog wrote: Should the USA take immigrants based on diversity and the immigrants needs or on their ability to contribute to the economy?  
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ren-216332
That's sort of what I'm wondering.  In the late 1800's and early 1900's we took a lot of immigrants with zero skills because we needed labor.  Is that still true?  I know everywhere around me there are low skill jobs available.  It's so bad that the oil change place is only open 5 days a week and REI has a sign apologizing for the lack of associates to help customers.  

The flipside is we live in different times and maybe immigrants to have a long term positive impact they need a certain amount of education to be more than dishwashers and service people.  It's tough to get anywhere in our country with a GED.

Or maybe we need to be training our own citizens for the skilled jobs and filling the bottom with new immigrants whose children will be the skilled workers of tomorrow.  
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7:01 AM - Jan 22, 2018 #8727

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7:55 AM - Jan 22, 2018 #8728

It is all just a mess.  My drill weekend was cancelled which for me is kind of nice but for all the other soldiers relying on that 4 or 5 hundred bucks to make payments it is tough.  I hate that the congressmen get paid regardless but that is just butt hurt.

It is too early to say which party suffers the most from this.  With so many CRs and now a shutdown I think it makes them all look incompetent.  It is a little easier to be angry at the RNC only because they control all branches so ultimately they should be leading.  However, the Dems using a non budget related issue to hold up the budget (DACA)  and cost so many looks petty too.  So I guess I come to the same conclusion every time we have these debates.  DC has become so tribal it is now worthless.
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5:08 PM - Jan 23, 2018 #8729

I don’t understand the narrative that the Democrats lost the “showdown.”

They got CHIP reauthorized for six more years at the expense of a three week continuing resolution. 

Win.
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5:49 PM - Jan 23, 2018 #8730

Here is what I read....

The Republicans agreed to CHIP before the shutdown (allegedly because it doesn't cost as much as they thought) and they set the Democrats up to look like they were in favor of 3.6 million non citizens (DACA) instead of 9 million citizens (CHIP).  From what I read the threat of those adds forced the D's who are running for re-election in Trump states to abandon the shutdown.  
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4:21 AM - Jan 24, 2018 #8731

What is it with crazy senators from Wisconsin starting witch hunts with no facts.  Back in the 50's you had Joseph McCarthy claiming he had secret lists of communist trying to overthrow his agenda and today we have Wisconsin senator Ron Johnson claiming an 'informant' told me about anti-Trump FBI 'secret society' meetings.   Fox News has already grabbed hold of that insanely reckless comment http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/201 ... andal.html and now the right is turning this into a witch hunt against the FBI.   Considering this is a white house run by a conspirator who is openly attacking words like Evidence based and scientific based I doubt the Trump supporters will care at all to actually see the facts that the FBI is run by a secret society and will use this as evidence Trump is completely innocent and the FBI is corrupt.   I blame Taco Bell.  Their new 1 dollar secret society commercials proved to be too influential on the simple minded.  
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6:14 AM - Jan 24, 2018 #8732

It's a bottom line deal, though. R's have promised a lot of things to dems, but rarely actually go through with their commitments.

CHIP has been unfunded for 3 months. Now it's p paid for.

What did the R's get? There weeks?

Zero sum game.
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9:00 AM - Jan 24, 2018 #8733

DocVOLiday wrote: What is it with crazy senators from Wisconsin starting witch hunts with no facts.  Back in the 50's you had Joseph McCarthy claiming he had secret lists of communist trying to overthrow his agenda and today we have Wisconsin senator Ron Johnson claiming an 'informant' told me about anti-Trump FBI 'secret society' meetings.   Fox News has already grabbed hold of that insanely reckless comment http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/201 ... andal.html and now the right is turning this into a witch hunt against the FBI.   Considering this is a white house run by a conspirator who is openly attacking words like Evidence based and scientific based I doubt the Trump supporters will care at all to actually see the facts that the FBI is run by a secret society and will use this as evidence Trump is completely innocent and the FBI is corrupt.   I blame Taco Bell.  Their new 1 dollar secret society commercials proved to be too influential on the simple minded.  
The FBI tries hard to stay out of politics, but was drawn in with the Clinton emails right before the election.  That was a big mistake on their part.  I've said on here repeatedly that I think the Clintons are corrupt, but the FBI though vague crap onto the fire with only a few weeks until the election.  Hardly fair.  

That opened up the FBI to being used politically and being blamed for being political.  
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9:38 AM - Jan 24, 2018 #8734

I don't disagree with that although I am highly skeptical there is a Washington secret society running the FBI.   To be fair and balanced a lot of people dropped the ball prior to this election.  The FBI really screwed the pooch on the whole Hillary thing and I do think affected the outcome of the election.  Obama really screwed up not aggressively pursuing the reports he was receiving on Russian intervention.   I think he was so confident that Hillary would win that he was just kicking the can.  

All I know is I would like to see a normal week.  Is that too much?  One week without rumors, innuendo, paid off porn starts, nuclear threats.  Just one week.  My nerves need it.  
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9:47 AM - Jan 25, 2018 #8735

As The Post's Emily Guskin reported, a recent Washington Post-ABC News poll revealed that 38 percent of Americans surveyed said they trust Trump to responsibly handle his authority to order nuclear strikes — and 60 percent do not. Among those who are wary, nearly 9 in 10 said they are very or somewhat concerned he might launch an attack.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-d ... spartandhp
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10:26 AM - Jan 25, 2018 #8736

No way Trump obliterates all his real estate investments.
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8:58 AM - Jan 29, 2018 #8737

On a lighter note (Lord knows we need it these days), it was pretty funny having Hillary reading Fire and fury on the Grammy's last night.   At this point the only thing Hillary can do is make fun of herself.  She no longer has a voice in politics.  
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9:41 AM - Jan 29, 2018 #8738

How long until we start hearing about Chelsea Clinton for President?

(She is 37)
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10:04 AM - Jan 29, 2018 #8739

I personally think the Clinton name is so toxic that we will not see another Clinton run in our lifetime.  This should have been JFK Jr's year if he had not wrecked.   
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4:27 AM - Jan 30, 2018 #8740

I am disturbed more than usual with resignation of deputy FBI director Andrew McCabe and the vote to release classified documents by Senator Nunez who has already been shown to be shady by his weird taxi drive to the White House to get some cherry picked info from them a year ago.   I think I am disturbed because one can only draw two conclusions at this point.  Either this White House with the complete support of the legislative branch is undermining the integrity of the Dept of Justice in order to keep a lawless man in power or the DOJ has decided to try to take down a sitting President based on politics.  Neither one of those options bodes well for our country.   I am not sure with the divide in this country in Washington and the media it is possible to determine truth anymore.  
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6:48 AM - Jan 30, 2018 #8741

Go Gatah



Nothing says #humble like a rented limo.
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6:53 AM - Jan 30, 2018 #8742

DocVOLiday wrote: I am disturbed more than usual with resignation of deputy FBI director Andrew McCabe and the vote to release classified documents by Senator Nunez who has already been shown to be shady by his weird taxi drive to the White House to get some cherry picked info from them a year ago.   I think I am disturbed because one can only draw two conclusions at this point.  Either this White House with the complete support of the legislative branch is undermining the integrity of the Dept of Justice in order to keep a lawless man in power or the DOJ has decided to try to take down a sitting President based on politics.  Neither one of those options bodes well for our country.   I am not sure with the divide in this country in Washington and the media it is possible to determine truth anymore.  
I think Trump threatens the political elite on both sides.  Similar to Bernie.  I'm not saying he is great or anything.  He just doesn't operate in the system they all profit from.  

Anyway as I mentioned earlier, the FBI should have stayed out of the Clinton email issue until after the election.  
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7:04 AM - Jan 30, 2018 #8743

As someone who is not force fed the conspiracy on Fox News and attempts to get news from as many different sources as possible I will have to admit if this report does somehow prove this whole thing has been the FBI just defending it's turf it will make me angry at the media.  At best they got suckered in because they do not like Trump and what he stands for, at worst they were complicit in trumping up charges.   Before I form an opinion I will wait and see all the facts.  
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11:36 AM - Jan 30, 2018 #8744

If Donald Trump ever comes to a sudden stop, both Devin Nunez and Kevin McArthy's faces will end up halfway up his ass. They're all in with The Donald. Nunez is a traitorous son of a bitch, as far as I'm concerned, he has definitely put party before country.
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2:12 PM - Jan 30, 2018 #8745

I have a hunch there isn't much in the memo.  Just enough to cloud the situation, but nothing serious.

I've been wrong before.
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2:43 PM - Feb 05, 2018 #8746

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—After watching it suffer its worst losses since he became President, Donald Trump is “seriously considering” firing the Dow Jones industrial Average, aides have confirmed.
According to the aides, Trump is “furious” at the D.J.I.A. for going down so precipitously and believes that it has treated him “very unfairly.”
“Increasingly, the President has become convinced that the Dow Jones Industrial Average is not on his team,” one aide said. “Seeing the negative Dow numbers in the corner of the TV screen has been wrecking eleven hours of every day for him.”
Reportedly, Trump is mulling replacing the Dow with a new system, in which Sarah Huckabee Sanders would appear every day at 4 p.m. to announce how high stocks had skyrocketed.
En route to an appearance in Ohio, Trump stopped short of saying that he would ask for the stock market index’s resignation, but his contempt for the Dow was palpable.
“The Dow Jones Industrial Average is a disgrace, and it should be very, very ashamed of itself,” he said.
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4:39 AM - Feb 06, 2018 #8747

😂.  I think the funniest thing I saw was after the drop someone asked Trump if he still took credit for the stock market and he responded "it just gets me my coffee."

I am not worried yet and people who are freaking out about their 401k's obviously do not understand 401ks.    I do think this is a healthy correction and hopefully gets us away from a bubble.  The crazy thing I am discovering is what is good for the average Joe is not good for Wall Street.  Unemployment is dropping which means employers will have to pay more to get qualified employees (dipping into their revenue) and the dollar is going up which affects inflation.   I have to admit, if I had a choice between strong jobs versus a strong Wall Street I would take the jobs every day.  
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5:05 AM - Feb 06, 2018 #8748

BTW, since we are talking politics today can anyone tell me why the Democrats are so loyal to Pelosi?   Under her watch they have lost control of congress and the executive.   Trump yesterday was blatantly boasting how she is the Republicans secret weapon and is her approval ratings are abysmal, especially with the oh so needed moderates.  If I were the Democrats I would thank her for her service to the party but the party needs to go a new direction.  Then they need to come up with a plan other than Trump is a dumbass which seems to be their only party positions these days.  They also need to stop Trump from taking all the credit for the economy.   Hx has taught us that the economy is cyclical and you could just as easily claim Obama inherited a recession from Bush and left with the economy surging.  Right now I do not see any clear message from the DNC and like always they just seem lost.  Getting rid of Pelosi helps them more than hurts them and allows the party to reinvent itself.  
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5:58 AM - Feb 06, 2018 #8749

DocVOLiday wrote: BTW, since we are talking politics today can anyone tell me why the Democrats are so loyal to Pelosi?   Under her watch they have lost control of congress and the executive.   Trump yesterday was blatantly boasting how she is the Republicans secret weapon and is her approval ratings are abysmal, especially with the oh so needed moderates.  If I were the Democrats I would thank her for her service to the party but the party needs to go a new direction.  Then they need to come up with a plan other than Trump is a dumbass which seems to be their only party positions these days.  They also need to stop Trump from taking all the credit for the economy.   Hx has taught us that the economy is cyclical and you could just as easily claim Obama inherited a recession from Bush and left with the economy surging.  Right now I do not see any clear message from the DNC and like always they just seem lost.  Getting rid of Pelosi helps them more than hurts them and allows the party to reinvent itself.  
The party bosses love her because she does exactly what they want.  After the election Bernie Sanders and a few other Democrats said that the party needed a complete overhaul, and it went nowhere.  Those people donating millions of dollars every year aren't doing that for social justice.  It's for a guaranteed slice of the revenue, and that guarantee is created through favorable laws.
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Joined: 4:59 PM - Oct 03, 2013

6:02 AM - Feb 06, 2018 #8750

The party does need a complete overhaul and a new face of the party.   It does not need to be Bernie either.   Socialism still does not win elections.   I have read the Dems are trying to get 37 year old Joe Kennedy to become a Presidential nominee.   He does check a few boxes, he is young, he is a Kennedy and he has experience.   Surely the party bosses do not think it is good for them to keep losing?  
Being a Vol fan is great except for a few Saturdays in the fall.
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