Nine programs who have won a national title but will never win another one again

Joined: October 3rd, 2013, 4:59 pm

May 14th, 2018, 8:44 am #1

https://thespun.com/big-ten/michigan-st ... e-syracuse

So I agree with a lot of these.   Georgia Tech and BYU (sorry Basc) are no brainers although I would argue forever is a long time.  To add Tennessee to this list is a little insulting.  Yes. we have had a bad decade but in 2007 we were just one TD away from beating LSU, winning the SEC and getting to a BCS championship game.  Combine that with the fact that thanks to the Battle at Bristol we were the most profitable SEC football program last year https://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/201 ... oores.html and it really should be painfully obvious we are just one good coach away from greatness again.  
"Gentlemen, touchdowns follow blocking as sure night follows day" -Gen Neyland
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sec realist
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Joined: August 29th, 2012, 6:09 pm

May 14th, 2018, 1:12 pm #2

Not sure Tennessee is a slam dunk to be back to the top, but it does seem a bit attention seeking to put them on a list like this.

In other news:

'In two days, Florida won an SEC baseball title, an SEC tournament softball title, the SEC men’s track and field and the women’s track and field and advanced to the Sweet 16 in men’s tennis and women’s lacrosse."

Plus they advanced to the women's golf round of 16 last Wednesday.

It's absolutely nuts to consider how good Florida is at most every sport it plays.

It's the Everything University.
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Joined: October 3rd, 2013, 4:59 pm

May 15th, 2018, 4:27 am #3

Tennessee used to be that way.  When I was there in the early 90's we had a ton of Olympians on campus.  I think it goes back to the day that Tennessee was so much more wealthy of a program than everyone else and could afford to prop up the lesser attended sports like girls basketball, gymnastics and track and field.  Since then I think a combination of other programs sharing the same revenue combined with just good management at UF has made UF the Athletic dept of the SEC east.  

I just spoke with my buddy who is the CFO of UT Athletics and he said Fulmer is solely focused on football right now so I do not see UT expanding strongly back into other sports anytime soon.    

BTW, I do wonder why so many Olympians have chosen Florida now over Tennessee since that was something traditionally Tennessee had a pretty good reputation for development.   I think it might be as simple as a young kid saying "sure, I will move to Florida.  They have beaches there!"   
"Gentlemen, touchdowns follow blocking as sure night follows day" -Gen Neyland
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Joined: August 10th, 2017, 5:39 am

May 15th, 2018, 5:08 am #4

I think schools started focusing on where the money comes from and cut support for olympic sports.  Sometimes it was just letting them die on the vine and other times it was cutting the program.  I think I mentioned this somewhere, but Kirby recently announced that he would let players participate in track.  I had no idea they couldn't participate.  Years ago it wasn't unusual for a football player to be a great sprinter of shot putter.  It's crazy how they have focused the kids on only football.
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May 15th, 2018, 6:12 am #5

Florida has always been fantastic at all sports.

They've won the SEC All Sports title 11, about to be 12, straight times.

While others we're spending on football, Florida built facilities and invested in the other programs. Baseball and softball are getting new facilities and then the big spend on football.
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Joined: October 3rd, 2013, 4:59 pm

May 15th, 2018, 8:12 am #6

It does not seem that long ago when football players were excelling at track and field.  Willie Gault made the 1980 Olympic team that boycotted, but he helped the U.S 4x100 meter relay team set a world record (37.86 seconds) at the 1983 World Championships in Helsinki before taking his act to the NFL as a first-round pick (18th overall) by the Bears.  Rocket Ismail excelled in the 55-meter indoor race finishing second at the 1991 NCAA Championships. Herschel Walker ran 10.32 in 100m plus was seventh in the 55m at the 1981 NCAA Indoor Championships.   Deion Sanders ran the fastest 100 m in FSU history in baseball pants.   Those are just the ones I can remember and wikipedia'd.   
"Gentlemen, touchdowns follow blocking as sure night follows day" -Gen Neyland
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Joined: August 29th, 2012, 6:09 pm

May 15th, 2018, 3:52 pm #7

Sports is about specialization any more. Pick a sport, and run with it.

I know there's a big push back about that right now, but think about where the best baseball players come from. The Caribbean. They play every day of the year, for years. They never stop.
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Joined: August 10th, 2017, 5:39 am

May 17th, 2018, 8:41 am #8

Fan, this should brighten your day.  This is 3 star prospect that Pruitt recruited and coached up.

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Joined: September 4th, 2012, 11:23 am

May 19th, 2018, 5:27 am #9

sec realist wrote: Sports is about specialization any more. Pick a sport, and run with it.

I know there's a big push back about that right now, but think about where the best baseball players come from. The Caribbean. They play every day of the year, for years. They never stop.
Dabo stresses at every camp he has that they recruit multiple sport athletes. Last year I think he said 83 of 855 scholarship players played multiple sports in high school. Loves wrestlers in the trenches, basketball players at the 9 position for 50/50 balls, etc etc. Track guys are always a plus

Nuk played basketball his freshman year at Clemson...many forget that. Renfrow would likely be a starter on the baseball team and many tried to get him to pursue that path over football. Mike Williams and Tee Higgins were basketball stars. Heck Mitch Hyatt started on his basketball team. Grady Jarrett was a state champ wrestler.

Simmons broke the state record in triple jump at 220 pounds...Feaster has both 100m and 200m state record

It was nice to hear him tell young kids they didnt have to pick a sport. Parents need to realize not every kid is going to college on a scholarship

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/res ... -athletics

6.9% of all high school football players go on to play in college and only 2.9% play D-1.

Wrestling is just 2.9% and just 1% play D-1

Baseball is 7.1% 2/ just 2.1% playing D-1

Kids need to be kids and not be forced to play just one sport. If you're an elite athlete you will rise to the top with proper coaching and good work ethic. Best local baseball player I ever saw was Julian Dean...he was also a top football recruit and track star (didn't even practice just participated in meets when baseball schedule allowed). Went on to play at UNC, got into the booger sugar and life went down hill. Ended up being charged with a cold case murder and committed suicide. Sad story...
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Joined: August 29th, 2012, 6:09 pm

May 19th, 2018, 9:35 am #10

Football is different. It's not competitive year round. You can and should be doing other sports.

You just can't get away with it in baseball. The best players in the world go all year, with little time off.

You get left behind.
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Joined: September 4th, 2012, 11:23 am

May 22nd, 2018, 4:11 am #11

sec realist wrote: Football is different. It's not competitive year round. You can and should be doing other sports.

You just can't get away with it in baseball. The best players in the world go all year, with little time off.

You get left behind.
That's what they want you to believe but there are lots of baseball players that are above average to elite that play football as well. I simply do not buy it. Now if you aren't a naturally gifted athlete, maybe you need that but I simply think kids playing baseball year round are the reason for more shoulder, elbow and arm issues these days.

The Terrance Gist kid, who was the best baseball player on the SC team that went to LLWS is a better football player. Plays baseball for fun and hes a super star at it. A friend of mine has a son who is the starting center for the football team and will likely go on to play college ball is also one of the best baseball players (catchers) in the area. I could go on and on with examples...

Kyle Parker played both baseball and football at Clemson at a high level...could have likely went pro in either. Heck, DJ Reader played baseball at Clemson for 2 years and is now a starting DT for the Texans. Renfrow was a baseball player that would likely be starting at Clemson if he opted to play.

And football is becoming competitive year round and more coaches are pushing for them to be in it year round. Season, spring ball, weights, film, 7 on 7, etc etc. There is even AAU ball now that kids are playing year round. I just do not think it is a necessity. Now if that is what a kid loves and they are passionate about it, then good for them. I just see way too many kids get burnt out. Wrestling is a year round sport these days but I am seeing Division 1 level kids hanging up their shoes because they are worn out and tired.

If your son continues to love it, then by all means support that and I hope it pays off but I see lots of high level, D-1 baseball talent playing other sports.

Elite athletes are elite athletes. Most D-1 athletes could have been a D-1 athlete in another sport had they pursued that. I mean, even little ole me could have played small level college football. The Citadel even asked me to come out when they were short on DBs but wrestling coach wouldn't let me without forfeiting my scholarship and I never focused on football, never went to camps, never spent all year working on the trade.

I just think this "pick a sport and focus on it at 8 years old" is a bit much on kids. And I have a kid who swims year round...he got burnt out, took a break, now he is back but wanting to play lacrosse along with his swimming in high school so guess what? He's gonna play lacrosse.
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Joined: August 29th, 2012, 6:09 pm

May 22nd, 2018, 5:02 am #12

Not an easy thing to navigate, for sure.

Ask this question:

What is the percentage of Caribbean players in professional baseball? Then compare that population base versus the United States.

The numbers are so overwhelming it's not even a real debate when you look at it that way.

There are always outliers. Looking at it the macro clears it up.

The arm injury problem is real. Kids are throwing more and much harder. Coaching is much better today, and more guys know how to maximize potential than before. My son is a pitcher, and so I'm terrified. We manage and limit his numbers, but he throws damn hard and I can't help but worry.

There is a tremendous athlete that starts on his football team as the rb. He's my son's age and had been in classes with G. He plays baseball half the year. The amount of at bats he "misses out on" kills him. By the time these kids reach high school level, my son will have something like 700 more at bats. That experience can't be bought.

He starts a strength and agility program in a couple of weeks - will last the summer. It's designed to increase mobility and improve running form. Strengthen the core.
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Joined: September 4th, 2012, 11:23 am

May 23rd, 2018, 4:58 am #13

I’ll also add to the arm issue...it’s one thing they throw hard and a lot more but also they start throwing breaking pitches way before the elbow and arm is ready for that.

I remember throwing a curve ball in a game when I was 10 or so and my coach jumping my ass and telling me to stick with fast balls and change ups unless I wanted to ruin my arm.
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May 23rd, 2018, 6:36 am #14

G's pitching coach played 14 mlb seasons as a pitcher.

He taught G to throw a curve. He said it doesn't hurt the arm if it's thrown right, and so who better teach it than him.

He will not teach a slider until the kids start to shave, though. Said that pitch is different and that it can fuck up an arm if its not ready.
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Joined: August 10th, 2017, 5:39 am

May 23rd, 2018, 9:11 am #15

I think it depends what the athlete is trying to get out of the sport.  

Scholarship?  Outside of BB and football the scholarships really aren't that great.  A kid could get a free ride with grades and SAT score to a lot of second tier schools.  Baseball is 11.7 scholarships for 27 players!  

Academics?  Sports can be a huge hook to elite universities, but you still have to have the grades.

Competition?  Definitely drives a lot of athletes.  As a parent we have to keep this desire in check to be sure they lay the foundation for a career after sports.

Attention?  Another thing we have to watch.  At some point they won't be getting that attention anymore.  

Love to be part of team and play the sport?  This generally is the best reason and it's about finding the right school.

Just my 2 cents.
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Joined: August 10th, 2017, 5:39 am

May 23rd, 2018, 9:14 am #16

btw, my daughter pulled up her swim team pic from 2.5 seasons ago and over half of the fast kids aren't swimming anymore.  Puberty changes everything.
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Joined: October 3rd, 2013, 4:59 pm

May 23rd, 2018, 9:18 am #17

The leap from high school to college is just severe.   As I have mentioned in the past I was a big fish in a very small pond going to a small Baptist High School.   It made me just cocky enough to try to walk on at UT Chattanooga and I was absolutely destroyed.   Chattanooga is a lower tier school with no history of fielding a good football team and they were all amazing athletes.  It absolutely blew my mind how much bigger, faster and stronger they were.   
"Gentlemen, touchdowns follow blocking as sure night follows day" -Gen Neyland
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sec realist
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Joined: August 29th, 2012, 6:09 pm

May 23rd, 2018, 9:51 am #18

No telling what kinds of athletes kids will become.

I've heard pro baseball scouts say they can pick the special kids out around 12 or 13 years old.

See something nuts:

https://www.imgacademy.com/boarding-sch ... cs/tuition
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Joined: September 4th, 2012, 11:23 am

May 23rd, 2018, 9:56 am #19

brown dog wrote: btw, my daughter pulled up her swim team pic from 2.5 seasons ago and over half of the fast kids aren't swimming anymore.  Puberty changes everything.
Swimming has a lot of attrition but going to my sons banquet almost every senior that’s stuck it out is swimming in college.

Crazy
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Joined: October 3rd, 2013, 4:59 pm

May 23rd, 2018, 10:07 am #20

sec realist wrote: No telling what kinds of athletes kids will become.

I've heard pro baseball scouts say they can pick the special kids out around 12 or 13 years old.

See something nuts:

https://www.imgacademy.com/boarding-sch ... cs/tuition
Whoa.   I just clicked on baseball since I know that is what your son excels at and tuition is HIGH (9th - 12th GRADE & POST-GRAD H.S.) $78,650 $62,650 MIDDLE (5th - 8th GRADE) $75,650 $59,650.
The first is boarding, the second is commuting.  It kinds of defeats the purpose of saving money with a college scholarship huh? 
"Gentlemen, touchdowns follow blocking as sure night follows day" -Gen Neyland
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sec realist
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Joined: August 29th, 2012, 6:09 pm

May 23rd, 2018, 1:19 pm #21

It's. Fucking. Crazy!!

It's not that complicated. You can assemble a dedicated team of coaches, trainers and dieticians and not come remotely close to that cost. Nuts!!

People are stupid.
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Joined: September 4th, 2012, 11:23 am

May 24th, 2018, 7:05 am #22

IMG gives a lot of scholarships. If you’re a top notch prospect you aren’t paying to go there
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May 24th, 2018, 12:46 pm #23

No doubt.

That partially explains the cost to everyone else.

Side note:

Most of the local schools refuse to play them in most sports. They can't recruit players but IMG can. They don't want them after their players.
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Joined: September 4th, 2012, 1:50 pm

May 30th, 2018, 6:19 am #24

I would put a few of the BIG teams on this list …. Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota ...
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Joined: October 3rd, 2013, 4:59 pm

May 30th, 2018, 6:25 am #25

Kentuckytoo wrote: I would put a few of the BIG teams on this list …. Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota ...
I can't disagree with that list.   Illinois always surprises me.  You would think with a football obsessed, densely populated city like Chicago you could find some talent.  I think they all leave for Michigan and Ohio State.
"Gentlemen, touchdowns follow blocking as sure night follows day" -Gen Neyland
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