Anti-R
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6:42 AM - Mar 20, 2013 #61

Pretty much.

I mean, replace Tifa with Barret and Advent Children's plot wouldn't be any different.
Utada Hikaru wrote:Everybody finds love in the end.
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Jon Snow
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10:16 PM - Mar 21, 2013 #62

Dreamstar wrote:I'm a bit pissed off the Villa wasn't mentioned. I know it's optional, but I'm pretty sure everyone bought that thing 'cause if you go into the bathroom you can hear Cloud taking a bath and then he re-does his hair in the mirror. *squealz* 'cause it's big and nice!
What? :huh: Nuh-uh, that's a stranger you see/hear in the bathroom I thought. :lol:
The Iron Throne is mine...


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GreyGardens
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10:22 PM - Mar 21, 2013 #63

Anti-R wrote:I mean, replace Tifa with Barret and Advent Children's plot wouldn't be any different.
THIS.
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Dreamstar
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10:42 PM - Mar 21, 2013 #64

Calilily wrote:
Dreamstar wrote:I'm a bit pissed off the Villa wasn't mentioned. I know it's optional, but I'm pretty sure everyone bought that thing 'cause if you go into the bathroom you can hear Cloud taking a bath and then he re-does his hair in the mirror. *squealz* 'cause it's big and nice!
What? :huh: Nuh-uh, that's a stranger you see/hear in the bathroom I thought. :lol:
Nope, if you go into the bathroom AFTER YOU BUY THE PLACE! You can have Cloud take a bath. XD
Anti-R wrote:I mean, replace Tifa with Barret and Advent Children's plot wouldn't be any different.
Oh, I agree. She was only created as a girl to be by Cloud's side til the end:
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11960&page=2 wrote:i—Was the Aerith's shocking death scene also confirmed at that time?

Nomura: I suggested to Kitase about having either Aerith or Tifa die, and it was decided that we'd go in that direction.

i—Were there two heroines from the outset?

Nomura: No, originally there was only Aerith, and Tifa was added as another heroine later. To make up for Aerith dying, we needed a heroine who would be by the hero's side until the end. Plus with Aerith's death, while there were characters in previous “FF” games who lost their lives, we wanted to try a different approach. By bringing out a 'sense of loss' with Aerith's death, we also wanted to portray the theme of “FFVII” which is 'life'.
[+] Spoiler
Cloud: He took someone away from me. Forever.
Terra: So when you find him, what are you going to do?
Will killing him bring back the woman that you lost?
This isn't in any way to honor her memory.
To take your love for her and turn it into hate?

---Cloud and Terra WOFF
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Your-Rain
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2:46 AM - Mar 24, 2013 #65

[quote=Anastar]Well, believe it or not, I've heard Cloti's get mad when I say that the LT's up to personal interpretation, too. I can specify that I think Cloti is a [b]possible[/b] interpretation just like Clerith is a [b]possible[/b] interpretation, and they get mad because they say I'm refusing to face facts because Cloti is the only possible pairing and that it's canon that Cloud loves Tifa. >_<

That's what gets me - when they try to insist that the [b]ONLY[/b] possible interpretation is that Cloud loves Tifa and when they try to pretend that it's [b]fact[/b] when it's not. They won't even say that it's their [b]opinion[/b] - they insist that it's fact.

IMO, that's just twisting what SE has said to us. Nomura has even blatantly said that other interpretations are possible:

[color=blue]”Advent Children is a piece of work made by Japanese people. In Hollywood movies, I think there is a tendency where the meaning of all the scenes have to be expressed clearly but, this isn’t something like that. [b]With our work, the viewer is free to decide how they interpret or enjoy it. The staff has their own answers to all the scenes in the movie such as the angel statue that makes an appearance many times. But, even if someone who has watched it interprets it differently, then that is just another answer.[/b] I guess “comparing answers” with friends is one of the ways you can enjoy the movie. I think AC is a movie that makes those who have watched it, want to talk about it with others.”[/color] -Tetsuya Nomura, FFVII AC Prologue Book

I don't know how much more blatantly he could say that there's not just one way to interpret the story.
[/quote]
No, I believe you there, cause I have witnessed it myself and it is annoying, but you can't really get through to people that won't listen, like I said it goes in one ear out the other, but there are cloti's that do share the clerith's views. I think they're contradicting themselves there, cause they're saying you "can't face the facts", while they themselves are refusing to know that there are possible solutions in the LT, my god what a world :rolleyes: They hold on to the FTOIL page as evidence cause they it canonize's there pairing or so they believe, this is why they refuse to know that there's other possible ways to view the LT, cause it's a threat to there pairing of ever being the one and true couples of FFVII. But it shouldn't be a threat, if both are possible intended pairs, then they shouldn't worry, cause it still means that Cloti is a possible couple.


I know, I have seen them say that too, cause like I said before they feel it threatens the whole idea that there ship is canon, which is not, cause like I said above, Cloti is still a possible pairing.

Hmmm I don't think Nomura was talking about pairings here, he's pretty much talking about the movie, saying that you can interpret a scene or objects in your own point of views, I don't think he means what he says in his statement, cause if he was, he would mention about the LT being up to the viewers personal opinions. Like I really don't see anything here that mentions about who Cloud loves is up to the players interpretation, it seems to me he's just talking about the movie and wants to leave certain scenes/objects/thing up to the watchers view points.


Sometimes life seems too quiet
Into paralyzing silence
Like the moonless dark
Meant to make me strong
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colbie
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10:04 AM - Feb 21, 2018 #66

Anti-R wrote:Pretty much.

I mean, replace Tifa with Barret and Advent Children's plot wouldn't be any different.
Old thread, but I wish this was canon. I would love for places like TLS be like " THEY LIVE TOGETHER AND HAVE TWO KIDS, THEY'RE CANON "

lmao.
We always grow back, don't we baby ?
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Anastar
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7:12 PM - Apr 09, 2018 #67

One thing that I've brought up to TLS and Tres Dias is the fact that the FTOIL page doesn't actually show the Highwind scene. If you look at the FTOIL page carefully, ALL of the scenes talked about on the page are shown in the screenshot above the description.

The screenshot on the FTOIL page for Cloud and Tifa is actually the morning after, not the Highwind Scene itself.

The HA and LA versions of the morning after are almost identical and there is absolutely NO hint that they may have had sex during that scene.

TLS chose to ignore this, but if you look at it carefully you'll see that the FTOIL page is talking about the morning after, not the Highwind Scene itself.
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Jon Snow
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5:43 PM - Apr 10, 2018 #68

Anastar wrote:One thing that I've brought up to TLS and Tres Dias is the fact that the FTOIL page doesn't actually show the Highwind scene. If you look at the FTOIL page carefully, ALL of the scenes talked about on the page are shown in the screenshot above the description.

The screenshot on the FTOIL page for Cloud and Tifa is actually the morning after, not the Highwind Scene itself.

The HA and LA versions of the morning after are almost identical and there is absolutely NO hint that they may have had sex during that scene.

TLS chose to ignore this, but if you look at it carefully you'll see that the FTOIL page is talking about the morning after, not the Highwind Scene itself.
The screenshot could indicate that it's either version. But clotis claim the description is what "proves" it's the Highwind scene, not the picture.

That said, if it is the next morning as you said, that means regardless of which highwind scene the player gets, the next morning is a mutually romantic moment between Cloud and Tifa. So basically, when you think that FTOIL is talking about the next morning that could be used as proof for cloti—and if you're argument is correct, then it is a cloti confirmation.

However, the page is just about the HAHW scene, which is why it's on FTOIL. It wouldn't be on FTOIL if it wasn't romantic (whether it's Tifa confessing or both of them). So whether it's the night before or the next morning doesn't matter, either scene being on FTOIL is an automatic confirmation because the page is just about romantic love between two people in the Final Fantasy series.


However, just in case anyone finds this interesting.... after my friend Rosey gifted me with the Ultimanias so I could start translating them myself, I found this:



It's from the same book as FTOIL (20th Anniversary Ultimania) and as you can see, despite FTOIL, this introductory page for FF "loves" excludes FFVII entirely.


It has:
* Squall and Rinoa
* Zidane and Garnet
* Tidus and Yuna
* FFI's unrequited love
* and one for XI (which I've never played)


It seems really odd that the staff who wrote this book would include Clerith/Cloti on FTOIL and then leave out the Final Fantasy series most successful game (FF7) from this section about love stories.

Of course, the Ultimanias were also written by random people at Bent Co. with no indication that they sought any fact-checking from Kitase, Nojima, or Nomura on any of these details. Proven by the fact that there are literally dozens of mistakes/errors/inconsistencies in these books that even Japanese people cite as reason to doubt their credibility.

Examples:

* The 10thAU says Aerith had no idea Zack died (which goes against the cloti belief that she sensed that Zack died)

* The Ultimania also says that Zack was undecided on "which girlfriend" he was going to see when he got to Midgar, Crisis Core depicts Zack trying to get to Aerith.

* The inconsistencies on the timeline.

Just to name a few.


I say a lot of people are betting a lot on a book that the creator's themselves had no part in--for an optional scene, that neither character recalls or acts like ever happened 3 years later. The Ultimania is what people call "baiting". It's there to get the $$$ from die-hards, but everyone knows they ultimately mean jack $hit, with maybe the exception of the 25thAU since it's the only one to be translated in other languages.

The HAHW scene is totally debunked by the Lifestream scene (which takes place a mere week before the end of the game). The 25thAU states that when Tifa ventures into the Lifestream, she discovers that Cloud had an "ephemeral" crush on her.

"Ephemeral" = lasting for a very short time.

Cloti is nuked.

The optional HAHW scene doesn't have any relevancy to the canon story.



The Iron Throne is mine...


A STORY OF A LOVE
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Anastar
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1:57 PM - Apr 11, 2018 #69

Jon Snow
wrote:The screenshot could indicate that it's either version. But clotis claim the description is what "proves" it's the Highwind scene, not the picture.
First, as I said above, the screenshot corresponds with the description for all other couples on the page.

Second, take a look at the description:

VII The night before the final battle
Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match.


That description also fits the Morning After Scene it takes place before dawn breaks.. BTW, I'm referring to it as "The Morning After" scene, but it actually takes place at night because the sun has not risen yet. The following scene takes place after the sun has risen. Here is the script of the scene I'm talking about:

HA Scene 137
(The scene fades in once more to the grassy hill. It is still mostly dark out, but the hint of a sun is glowing beyond the horizon. Cloud and Tifa are seated on a small rise in the ground. Tifa is resting her head on his shoulder; both are dozing. Cloud lifts his head slightly.)
Cloud "...It's almost dawn..."
Tifa "H, huh...?"
(He lifts his head further, just enough so that he can look at her.)
Cloud "Sorry. Did I wake you...? It's almost dawn, Tifa."
(She lifts her head off his shoulder and looks around sleepily.)
Tifa "Umm... G, good morning... Cloud."
Tifa "Give me a little longer... Just a little bit longer..."
(She rests her head on his shoulder again.)
Tifa "This day will never come again... So let me have this moment..."
(He nods)
Cloud "Yeah... okay."
(He lowers his head again.)
Cloud “This is probably the last time we'll have together..."


Note: the bolded sentence shows that the sun has not risen yet.

There is no indication that they had sex other than Tifa resting her head on his shoulder. However, for all we know, Tifa sat down next to Cloud and her head fell to Cloud's shoulder as she fell asleep. Both are fully dressed and Cloud's arm is not around Tifa's shoulder.

The most affectionate thing that happens is that Cloud agrees to let her "have this moment" and says that it's probably the last time they;ll have together. But is that saying they are romantically in love with one another, or that they have a deep bond of friendship? Purely a matter of interpretation, if you ask me.

The point is that Tifa resting her head on Cloud's shoulder "for a little while longer" is the two of them confirming that their feelings match without using words. It also happens before dawn, so it occurs at night. Therefore, the description fits this scene.

As a result, the Cloti claim that Cloud and Tifa confirm their feelings without words means that they had sex is totally shot apart by the screenshot on the page.

There is no definite indication of romantic love in this scene, either. Cloud's words could indicate a deep bond of platonic love between them just as easily as it could indicate romantic love. If you ask me, the portrayal of Cloud and Tifa's relationship in AC as well as in CoT also leaves the same question open because we never see any definite
indication of romantic love between them.

As an added note, the LA version of the scene I'm talking about above shows Cloud not agreeing to let Tifa rest her head on his shoulder a little while longer. All he says in response to her question is "......". You can see the script HERE.
wrote:It's from the same book as FTOIL (20th Anniversary Ultimania) and as you can see, despite FTOIL, this introductory page for FF "loves" excludes FFVII entirely.


It has:
* Squall and Rinoa
* Zidane and Garnet
* Tidus and Yuna
* FFI's unrequited love
* and one for XI (which I've never played)


It seems really odd that the staff who wrote this book would include Clerith/Cloti on FTOIL and then leave out the Final Fantasy series most successful game (FF7) from this section about love stories.
Indeed, that is VERY interesting! You might want to start a separate thread about that page just to draw more attention to it. This is the first I've ever heard about it.

But you're absolutely right that it's very interesting that FFVII is left out on this page about love scenes. For a long time, I've been saying that there is no love scene anywhere in FFVII except by interpretation. That is, there is no undeniable scene shown in anywhere in the FFVII series like Tidus and Yuna kissing in the lake. There's plenty of hints, but it's all left to interpretation, IMO.
wrote:I say a lot of people are betting a lot on a book that the creator's themselves had no part in--for an optional scene, that neither character recalls or acts like ever happened 3 years later. The Ultimania is what people call "baiting". It's there to get the $$$ from die-hards, but everyone knows they ultimately mean jack $hit, with maybe the exception of the 25thAU since it's the only one to be translated in other languages.
Couldn't agree with you more. :cheer:
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colbie
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12:06 PM - Apr 13, 2018 #70

That's rather fascinating that they left out anything from FFVII. As already said, FFVII is a big game, and would you think that they would put the high affection in there.


offtopic : What's servant and master about, I wonder ?

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