Joined: March 30th, 2010, 9:02 am

August 15th, 2013, 11:05 pm #31

I use Embeco 880 tiling grout.
Also have 8 sleeves.
So far no splits but have seen some pin holes in #4.
Rod.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 6th, 2002, 6:11 pm

August 20th, 2013, 5:09 pm #32

While we have talked about nearly every aspect of this engine have we all encountered the cylinder walls splitting?TorinoPat has got my curiosity up now on cylinder failures.I will start with my own experience, I have not cracked any 351c blocks that had not been caused by something else. The first one was over rev kiss the valve and good by cylinder! That was block no.1! The next was base plate in carb screw let loose fell in to no.3 and jammed piston hard and boom cracked top to bottom. The next was 400 block bored .030 over was not sonic tested and was 408 cubes. Ran fine for two years then started dumping water in pan. No.8 was split on outside part of block. That engine dynoed at 551. The last 436 stroker ended up dumping coolant from a split deck which was caused from improper installation of liners. Jury is still out whether these liners were actually needed. It will be interesting to hear if you guys have had trouble in this area! If indeed you suffered a failure from poor cylinders or other failures caused the cylinder to give out. It is known that a hearty block such as bbf, Dart Windsor,fe blocks can suffer a failure at keep the cylinder intact. This in most cases doesn't happen usually with this motor. However I think we had a post on this earlier this week. Lets hear the stories boys! Did your sleeve let loose from something failing or from weakness! I have talked with Paul Jenkins and while he never said he busted cylinders I would imagine he has. But he did tell me his blocks were stock blocks filled and prepared by himself. He may have had xe blocks at one time but never mentioned it. Also if something else fails and takes cylinder can that really be classed as a weakness? In the snowmobile world it happens regularly ? Let me know!
Mine was a mispaced carb base nut. I dropped it and couldn't find it. I even pulled the intake and checked the runners, I didn't see it.
Trying to start the motor I found it. I dropped it into a runner that had an open intake valve. It compressed some but not enough. You guys know what happened next.

It was a really valuable (expensive) lesson. I keep the nut around to remind myself. I should have pulled the head when I couldn't find the nut or at least I should have turned the engine over by hand.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 7th, 2005, 1:24 am

August 20th, 2013, 7:41 pm #33

While we have talked about nearly every aspect of this engine have we all encountered the cylinder walls splitting?TorinoPat has got my curiosity up now on cylinder failures.I will start with my own experience, I have not cracked any 351c blocks that had not been caused by something else. The first one was over rev kiss the valve and good by cylinder! That was block no.1! The next was base plate in carb screw let loose fell in to no.3 and jammed piston hard and boom cracked top to bottom. The next was 400 block bored .030 over was not sonic tested and was 408 cubes. Ran fine for two years then started dumping water in pan. No.8 was split on outside part of block. That engine dynoed at 551. The last 436 stroker ended up dumping coolant from a split deck which was caused from improper installation of liners. Jury is still out whether these liners were actually needed. It will be interesting to hear if you guys have had trouble in this area! If indeed you suffered a failure from poor cylinders or other failures caused the cylinder to give out. It is known that a hearty block such as bbf, Dart Windsor,fe blocks can suffer a failure at keep the cylinder intact. This in most cases doesn't happen usually with this motor. However I think we had a post on this earlier this week. Lets hear the stories boys! Did your sleeve let loose from something failing or from weakness! I have talked with Paul Jenkins and while he never said he busted cylinders I would imagine he has. But he did tell me his blocks were stock blocks filled and prepared by himself. He may have had xe blocks at one time but never mentioned it. Also if something else fails and takes cylinder can that really be classed as a weakness? In the snowmobile world it happens regularly ? Let me know!
I too have split a few cylinder walls,at least 3 or 4. None of the problems I had, were with dropped valves or any engine failure. I had the most trouble in the early 1980's before I started to use embecco 885 grout or a full round skirted piston. Another Super Stock racer, Kip Martin told a bunch of us at the U.S. Nationals in the mid 1980's about using Embecco 636 grout to fill blocks with. It is my understanding that the embecco 885 grout replaced the 636 grout. I also heard that that stuff was first made to be used on the launch pads for Nasa to withstand the blast of their Rockets. At that time, Kip Martin had a machine shop in Kansas that was near the hotbed of NHRA stock and Super Stock racing. I also had talked to several other Comp and Super Stock racers aboout using grout and they all gave me good ideas about using it. I have previously have posted some of the things I did and don't have the time to rehash them right now.
When we would rehoned the blocks, you could see the area that was not filled with the first few swipes of the hone,so in my opinion the fill worked good. After I started filling blocks along with using a round skirted piston, I never split another cylinder wall for probably at least 300 runs, making over 500 horsepower at over 8500 rpms in a drag race engine using stock 351c blocks. The last block I filled, was still used this summer, and is in a drag race car and is now at least .070 over stock 351c block. Also last time on the dyno, it made over 600 horsepower.

www.lifterboretools.com
Last edited by winkmiester on August 20th, 2013, 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 1st, 2004, 8:05 pm

August 20th, 2013, 10:46 pm #34

Nope no jug in the trunk. I was on my way to a car show thought I would run the gears a bit. My rev limiter is set at 6000 so It didnt get too wound up ran out first hit second got to about 4500 sounded sick, big bang,parts bouncing off the road and a big cloud of smoke followed by a sinking feeling. It seems it dropped an intake valve on #8 found three cracked valve spring retainers as well. My guess is this retainer cracked let loose and the rest as they say....
Condolences Steve. That's a bummer.

That's an amazingly large hole in the side of your motor, the rod & piston remained intact, and they took out a whole side of a cylinder wall instead. Factory valves? Forged pistons? Did the rods big end remained attached to the crank journal? Were the rod nuts still tight?

I know a Pantera guy whose son did a tune-up on the motor, in the process he unknowingly crossed two plug wires. When the Pantera owner took the car on a test drive after the tune-up he noticed it was running "rough" and figured the engine needed to be "blow-out". So he pressed the accelerator pedal to the floor ... and blew the crankshaft into the oil pan, and left pieces laying in the road behind him.

Condolences again.



-G
____________________________________________________________

Pantera Photos | Pantera Motors | Six Photo Albums of 351C Info | One | Two | Three | Four | Five | Six

.


Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 10th, 2008, 11:10 pm

August 20th, 2013, 11:50 pm #35

George
Hyper pistons and it did not stay intact,shattered into many tiny pcs. The rod stayed intact but bent, the wrist pin was still on the rod. The big end of the rod seemed fine bolts nice and tight. The spring retainer failed and the intake valve hit the piston on #8. The rod on # 5 was bent as well doesnt appear that the valve hit on #5 no piston damage on #5.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: June 16th, 2004, 4:57 am

August 21st, 2013, 6:39 am #36

I too have split a few cylinder walls,at least 3 or 4. None of the problems I had, were with dropped valves or any engine failure. I had the most trouble in the early 1980's before I started to use embecco 885 grout or a full round skirted piston. Another Super Stock racer, Kip Martin told a bunch of us at the U.S. Nationals in the mid 1980's about using Embecco 636 grout to fill blocks with. It is my understanding that the embecco 885 grout replaced the 636 grout. I also heard that that stuff was first made to be used on the launch pads for Nasa to withstand the blast of their Rockets. At that time, Kip Martin had a machine shop in Kansas that was near the hotbed of NHRA stock and Super Stock racing. I also had talked to several other Comp and Super Stock racers aboout using grout and they all gave me good ideas about using it. I have previously have posted some of the things I did and don't have the time to rehash them right now.
When we would rehoned the blocks, you could see the area that was not filled with the first few swipes of the hone,so in my opinion the fill worked good. After I started filling blocks along with using a round skirted piston, I never split another cylinder wall for probably at least 300 runs, making over 500 horsepower at over 8500 rpms in a drag race engine using stock 351c blocks. The last block I filled, was still used this summer, and is in a drag race car and is now at least .070 over stock 351c block. Also last time on the dyno, it made over 600 horsepower.

www.lifterboretools.com
I was thinking 636 was still available these days. But after searching the web to see if it could actually still be purchased somewhere/anywhere turned up no results, I guess it really is gone for good.

About the only current thing I found on the web for the 636 was a bunch of it's past MSDS PDF sheets. And some old info about it being reformulated somewhere around 2000-2001 (if I'm reading the web info correctly) and that the original "636" name was changed to "636 Plus" after reformulating the recipe. Couldn't find what year the reformulated 636 was finally axed.





my youtube page.
http://www.youtube.com/user/DILLIGASDAVE/videos?view=0

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 13th, 2006, 4:59 am

September 7th, 2013, 1:04 pm #37

Well the neighbors and good freinds also just split FE cylinder at race last weekend. Was a half grout and let loose from above grout line. We not the only ones boys.
Quote
Like
Share