My Build

Joined: August 4th, 2011, 9:37 pm

March 27th, 2013, 2:26 am #1

In case anyone is interested, I'm beginning a Cleveland build. I learned a lot reading these forums over the past couple of years. I really appreciate all the information and help.

My engine is the orignal from my 1970 Mach 1 with a shaker. I plan to bolt a 5-speed behind it and run something like a 3:70 rear gear. It's an H-Code 2v.

I considered getting a set of 4V heads. But there are two 1970 Mach 1s with 4V Clevelands in my Mustang club and both owners complain their cars are complete dogs at lower RPMs. And both engines are mostly stock. I think this is because we live at over 6,000 feet above sea level. So, I believe you guys when you say if you build a Cleveland right, the 4V heads will scream. But it seems high altitude really changes things.

I found a set of Aussie heads on Craigslist for a good price and picked those up. They were already machined and had adjustable, screw-in rocker studs with Boss 302 pushrod guides installed. They also came with a set of roller rockers. But the rockers are big block Chevy examples. I'm going to sell those to a bowtie guy and get a set of actual Cleveland roller rockers. What do you think of the Lunati rockers?

I called Bullet last week to order a cam. Wow, those guys are great! The guy who answered the phone is the guy who took my order and, I think, will actually grind the cam. Love those smaller shops. He asked me a lot of questions and I told him I wanted to do local cruising and long drives; hoping to open it up on remote roads through the Rocky Mountains. Surprisingly, he asked if I was opposed to a solid lifter cam. I told him I actually like the old school "Rat-A-Tat-Tat" from solid lifters and don't mind adjusting them. I also said a choppy idle wasn't an objective, but I didn't care if did have a choppy idle. He strongly recommended a solid lifter cam. So I said OK. Here's the cam he recommended:

238/248 @.050
Lift: .558 intake .580 exhaust
112 separation
CL 108

I admit I dont know what that really means. But I get the impression the guys at Bullet really know what they're doing. Funny, the guy at Bullet said I was the complete opposite of most people who insist on a hydraulic cam and just want a choppy idle. I asked about a roller cam. He said for my needs a roller cam really wouldn't do anything for me, but it would cost a lot more. I don't mind running a ZDDP oil.

I think I'm going to have to run an Edelbrock Performer 2V intake because of my shaker. If anyone knows how to run an Edelbrock Air Gap with a shaker, I'd be interested to know.

I'm also taking a hard look at a Quick Fuel carb. I'd like something with a choke and annular boosters.

I plan to have my original distributor rebuilt and curved Daytona Performance. I know the points will work fine. But I'll likely go with a Pertronix, or something similar. I don't like messing with points. I've seen mention of the Duraspark II and would like to know more about it and if it would be a good choice for me.

My machinist ordered a Speed Pro rebuild kit with hypereutectic pistons. All the forged pistons he found were very expensive. I'm thinking those pistons will be fine for my needs.

I would appreciate suggestions for headers. I ran Hooker Competition headers years ago and liked them. But I'm hearing those are now made overseas and the quality isn't what it used to be.

I'd love to hear comments, questions or criticisms. Thanks!
Last edited by ColoradoKlutch on March 27th, 2013, 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 12th, 2008, 1:55 pm

March 29th, 2013, 11:13 am #2

Sounds good Klutch. Depending on your hood clearance, l'd fit as big of an open carb spacer or two stuck together on that intake as I could. It will like the extra plenum volume. An engine rev limiter would also be a wise addition, things can get ugly quick with the foot buried if something goes wrong! That cam sounds like a reasonable thing, probably more exhaust duration and lift than I would use on a 2v head, especially if the exhaust system is good, but these guys are the experts. Keep us informed on your progress, and good luck.
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Joined: December 23rd, 2004, 3:26 pm

March 29th, 2013, 11:45 am #3

In case anyone is interested, I'm beginning a Cleveland build. I learned a lot reading these forums over the past couple of years. I really appreciate all the information and help.

My engine is the orignal from my 1970 Mach 1 with a shaker. I plan to bolt a 5-speed behind it and run something like a 3:70 rear gear. It's an H-Code 2v.

I considered getting a set of 4V heads. But there are two 1970 Mach 1s with 4V Clevelands in my Mustang club and both owners complain their cars are complete dogs at lower RPMs. And both engines are mostly stock. I think this is because we live at over 6,000 feet above sea level. So, I believe you guys when you say if you build a Cleveland right, the 4V heads will scream. But it seems high altitude really changes things.

I found a set of Aussie heads on Craigslist for a good price and picked those up. They were already machined and had adjustable, screw-in rocker studs with Boss 302 pushrod guides installed. They also came with a set of roller rockers. But the rockers are big block Chevy examples. I'm going to sell those to a bowtie guy and get a set of actual Cleveland roller rockers. What do you think of the Lunati rockers?

I called Bullet last week to order a cam. Wow, those guys are great! The guy who answered the phone is the guy who took my order and, I think, will actually grind the cam. Love those smaller shops. He asked me a lot of questions and I told him I wanted to do local cruising and long drives; hoping to open it up on remote roads through the Rocky Mountains. Surprisingly, he asked if I was opposed to a solid lifter cam. I told him I actually like the old school "Rat-A-Tat-Tat" from solid lifters and don't mind adjusting them. I also said a choppy idle wasn't an objective, but I didn't care if did have a choppy idle. He strongly recommended a solid lifter cam. So I said OK. Here's the cam he recommended:

238/248 @.050
Lift: .558 intake .580 exhaust
112 separation
CL 108

I admit I dont know what that really means. But I get the impression the guys at Bullet really know what they're doing. Funny, the guy at Bullet said I was the complete opposite of most people who insist on a hydraulic cam and just want a choppy idle. I asked about a roller cam. He said for my needs a roller cam really wouldn't do anything for me, but it would cost a lot more. I don't mind running a ZDDP oil.

I think I'm going to have to run an Edelbrock Performer 2V intake because of my shaker. If anyone knows how to run an Edelbrock Air Gap with a shaker, I'd be interested to know.

I'm also taking a hard look at a Quick Fuel carb. I'd like something with a choke and annular boosters.

I plan to have my original distributor rebuilt and curved Daytona Performance. I know the points will work fine. But I'll likely go with a Pertronix, or something similar. I don't like messing with points. I've seen mention of the Duraspark II and would like to know more about it and if it would be a good choice for me.

My machinist ordered a Speed Pro rebuild kit with hypereutectic pistons. All the forged pistons he found were very expensive. I'm thinking those pistons will be fine for my needs.

I would appreciate suggestions for headers. I ran Hooker Competition headers years ago and liked them. But I'm hearing those are now made overseas and the quality isn't what it used to be.

I'd love to hear comments, questions or criticisms. Thanks!
The traditional solutions for altitude are: 1. a cam with a little more lift, but not too much duration, and 2. forced air induction. I wonder if a third alternative, i.e., a little more stroke, would serve as the solution to performance at altitude? While I'm not the advocate of stroking I once was, it seems a LITTLE more stroke would pull more air in through those 4Vs? Then compress and cam accordingly. I'd like to hear your thoughts, guys.
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Joined: December 16th, 2003, 1:59 am

March 29th, 2013, 3:00 pm #4

In case anyone is interested, I'm beginning a Cleveland build. I learned a lot reading these forums over the past couple of years. I really appreciate all the information and help.

My engine is the orignal from my 1970 Mach 1 with a shaker. I plan to bolt a 5-speed behind it and run something like a 3:70 rear gear. It's an H-Code 2v.

I considered getting a set of 4V heads. But there are two 1970 Mach 1s with 4V Clevelands in my Mustang club and both owners complain their cars are complete dogs at lower RPMs. And both engines are mostly stock. I think this is because we live at over 6,000 feet above sea level. So, I believe you guys when you say if you build a Cleveland right, the 4V heads will scream. But it seems high altitude really changes things.

I found a set of Aussie heads on Craigslist for a good price and picked those up. They were already machined and had adjustable, screw-in rocker studs with Boss 302 pushrod guides installed. They also came with a set of roller rockers. But the rockers are big block Chevy examples. I'm going to sell those to a bowtie guy and get a set of actual Cleveland roller rockers. What do you think of the Lunati rockers?

I called Bullet last week to order a cam. Wow, those guys are great! The guy who answered the phone is the guy who took my order and, I think, will actually grind the cam. Love those smaller shops. He asked me a lot of questions and I told him I wanted to do local cruising and long drives; hoping to open it up on remote roads through the Rocky Mountains. Surprisingly, he asked if I was opposed to a solid lifter cam. I told him I actually like the old school "Rat-A-Tat-Tat" from solid lifters and don't mind adjusting them. I also said a choppy idle wasn't an objective, but I didn't care if did have a choppy idle. He strongly recommended a solid lifter cam. So I said OK. Here's the cam he recommended:

238/248 @.050
Lift: .558 intake .580 exhaust
112 separation
CL 108

I admit I dont know what that really means. But I get the impression the guys at Bullet really know what they're doing. Funny, the guy at Bullet said I was the complete opposite of most people who insist on a hydraulic cam and just want a choppy idle. I asked about a roller cam. He said for my needs a roller cam really wouldn't do anything for me, but it would cost a lot more. I don't mind running a ZDDP oil.

I think I'm going to have to run an Edelbrock Performer 2V intake because of my shaker. If anyone knows how to run an Edelbrock Air Gap with a shaker, I'd be interested to know.

I'm also taking a hard look at a Quick Fuel carb. I'd like something with a choke and annular boosters.

I plan to have my original distributor rebuilt and curved Daytona Performance. I know the points will work fine. But I'll likely go with a Pertronix, or something similar. I don't like messing with points. I've seen mention of the Duraspark II and would like to know more about it and if it would be a good choice for me.

My machinist ordered a Speed Pro rebuild kit with hypereutectic pistons. All the forged pistons he found were very expensive. I'm thinking those pistons will be fine for my needs.

I would appreciate suggestions for headers. I ran Hooker Competition headers years ago and liked them. But I'm hearing those are now made overseas and the quality isn't what it used to be.

I'd love to hear comments, questions or criticisms. Thanks!
the basic specs look very similar to the Crane F-238,

http://www.cranecams.com/234-235.pdf

except with a little more Lobe Separation Angle that will reduce overlap and reign in the crazy reversion that the F-238 has. running it 4* advanced (the 108* ICL vs the 112* LSA) will also help the streetability & improve operation below 3000 rpm, but a stock converter won't cut it if you run it with an auto trans

Leon Grice of www.fordramair.com says you need aprox 3.5" between the carb & hood for a shaker

there'll be phantoms, there'll be fires on the road... and the white man dancing
Last edited by tinman351 on March 30th, 2013, 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 4th, 2011, 9:37 pm

March 30th, 2013, 12:44 am #5

In case anyone is interested, I'm beginning a Cleveland build. I learned a lot reading these forums over the past couple of years. I really appreciate all the information and help.

My engine is the orignal from my 1970 Mach 1 with a shaker. I plan to bolt a 5-speed behind it and run something like a 3:70 rear gear. It's an H-Code 2v.

I considered getting a set of 4V heads. But there are two 1970 Mach 1s with 4V Clevelands in my Mustang club and both owners complain their cars are complete dogs at lower RPMs. And both engines are mostly stock. I think this is because we live at over 6,000 feet above sea level. So, I believe you guys when you say if you build a Cleveland right, the 4V heads will scream. But it seems high altitude really changes things.

I found a set of Aussie heads on Craigslist for a good price and picked those up. They were already machined and had adjustable, screw-in rocker studs with Boss 302 pushrod guides installed. They also came with a set of roller rockers. But the rockers are big block Chevy examples. I'm going to sell those to a bowtie guy and get a set of actual Cleveland roller rockers. What do you think of the Lunati rockers?

I called Bullet last week to order a cam. Wow, those guys are great! The guy who answered the phone is the guy who took my order and, I think, will actually grind the cam. Love those smaller shops. He asked me a lot of questions and I told him I wanted to do local cruising and long drives; hoping to open it up on remote roads through the Rocky Mountains. Surprisingly, he asked if I was opposed to a solid lifter cam. I told him I actually like the old school "Rat-A-Tat-Tat" from solid lifters and don't mind adjusting them. I also said a choppy idle wasn't an objective, but I didn't care if did have a choppy idle. He strongly recommended a solid lifter cam. So I said OK. Here's the cam he recommended:

238/248 @.050
Lift: .558 intake .580 exhaust
112 separation
CL 108

I admit I dont know what that really means. But I get the impression the guys at Bullet really know what they're doing. Funny, the guy at Bullet said I was the complete opposite of most people who insist on a hydraulic cam and just want a choppy idle. I asked about a roller cam. He said for my needs a roller cam really wouldn't do anything for me, but it would cost a lot more. I don't mind running a ZDDP oil.

I think I'm going to have to run an Edelbrock Performer 2V intake because of my shaker. If anyone knows how to run an Edelbrock Air Gap with a shaker, I'd be interested to know.

I'm also taking a hard look at a Quick Fuel carb. I'd like something with a choke and annular boosters.

I plan to have my original distributor rebuilt and curved Daytona Performance. I know the points will work fine. But I'll likely go with a Pertronix, or something similar. I don't like messing with points. I've seen mention of the Duraspark II and would like to know more about it and if it would be a good choice for me.

My machinist ordered a Speed Pro rebuild kit with hypereutectic pistons. All the forged pistons he found were very expensive. I'm thinking those pistons will be fine for my needs.

I would appreciate suggestions for headers. I ran Hooker Competition headers years ago and liked them. But I'm hearing those are now made overseas and the quality isn't what it used to be.

I'd love to hear comments, questions or criticisms. Thanks!
Thanks for the feedback, guys.

The cam was designed for a manual. My Mach 1 came with a 3-speed manual from the factory. Not sure a T5z would hold up to that engine. I'll probably have to go with a TKO 500. But again, I'm wondering if that will work with a shaker. (I understand the bigger case creates an angle in the engine/trans.) I do have some questions, please:

- Would the Harland Sharp roller rockers fit under factory, stamped steel valve covers?

- What headers would you recommend?

- Was Bullet a good choice for a cam grinder?

- Is a Quick Fuel a good carb choice?

Thanks!
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Joined: July 26th, 2002, 1:52 am

April 2nd, 2013, 2:03 pm #6

In case anyone is interested, I'm beginning a Cleveland build. I learned a lot reading these forums over the past couple of years. I really appreciate all the information and help.

My engine is the orignal from my 1970 Mach 1 with a shaker. I plan to bolt a 5-speed behind it and run something like a 3:70 rear gear. It's an H-Code 2v.

I considered getting a set of 4V heads. But there are two 1970 Mach 1s with 4V Clevelands in my Mustang club and both owners complain their cars are complete dogs at lower RPMs. And both engines are mostly stock. I think this is because we live at over 6,000 feet above sea level. So, I believe you guys when you say if you build a Cleveland right, the 4V heads will scream. But it seems high altitude really changes things.

I found a set of Aussie heads on Craigslist for a good price and picked those up. They were already machined and had adjustable, screw-in rocker studs with Boss 302 pushrod guides installed. They also came with a set of roller rockers. But the rockers are big block Chevy examples. I'm going to sell those to a bowtie guy and get a set of actual Cleveland roller rockers. What do you think of the Lunati rockers?

I called Bullet last week to order a cam. Wow, those guys are great! The guy who answered the phone is the guy who took my order and, I think, will actually grind the cam. Love those smaller shops. He asked me a lot of questions and I told him I wanted to do local cruising and long drives; hoping to open it up on remote roads through the Rocky Mountains. Surprisingly, he asked if I was opposed to a solid lifter cam. I told him I actually like the old school "Rat-A-Tat-Tat" from solid lifters and don't mind adjusting them. I also said a choppy idle wasn't an objective, but I didn't care if did have a choppy idle. He strongly recommended a solid lifter cam. So I said OK. Here's the cam he recommended:

238/248 @.050
Lift: .558 intake .580 exhaust
112 separation
CL 108

I admit I dont know what that really means. But I get the impression the guys at Bullet really know what they're doing. Funny, the guy at Bullet said I was the complete opposite of most people who insist on a hydraulic cam and just want a choppy idle. I asked about a roller cam. He said for my needs a roller cam really wouldn't do anything for me, but it would cost a lot more. I don't mind running a ZDDP oil.

I think I'm going to have to run an Edelbrock Performer 2V intake because of my shaker. If anyone knows how to run an Edelbrock Air Gap with a shaker, I'd be interested to know.

I'm also taking a hard look at a Quick Fuel carb. I'd like something with a choke and annular boosters.

I plan to have my original distributor rebuilt and curved Daytona Performance. I know the points will work fine. But I'll likely go with a Pertronix, or something similar. I don't like messing with points. I've seen mention of the Duraspark II and would like to know more about it and if it would be a good choice for me.

My machinist ordered a Speed Pro rebuild kit with hypereutectic pistons. All the forged pistons he found were very expensive. I'm thinking those pistons will be fine for my needs.

I would appreciate suggestions for headers. I ran Hooker Competition headers years ago and liked them. But I'm hearing those are now made overseas and the quality isn't what it used to be.

I'd love to hear comments, questions or criticisms. Thanks!
by buddy had one at the same time and we would test them by grunting up a steep driveway . there were no secrets involved I bolted it together with common stuff from summit . I dont know why people complain about no torque .

your build looks good , yeah the lunati rockers are good along withe their 70000 solid lifters .yes the boys at bullet are good at what they do , I prefer a tighter lobe separation than that but what they are recommending will be smooth.

Henry Ford said to Barney Oldfield: You made me and I made you. Oldfield shook his head and replied Old 999 made both of us.


Fluff Brown
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