Harmonic Balancer - Why not stock?

Harmonic Balancer - Why not stock?

Joined: June 14th, 2011, 10:13 pm

September 2nd, 2011, 4:45 pm #1

Don't mean to beat a dead horse but I'm curious. The decision to pull my engine a couple of weeks ago verses this fall was my harmonic balancer was spinning. I found this out when I replaced my old Mallory Distributor with Larry Stocks new setup and trying to time the car. After hearing some horror stories I thought it was best to bite the bullet and just get on with the rebuild. So.... I read every thread in the last post about harmonic balancers. ATI ATI and ATI. After a long hard conversation with Larry Stock, he would not put ANYTHING but an original Ford Balancer in any of his engines. Said he has personally seen three ATI's shear off at the crank. Most of us know Larry and he see's many Pantera's in a racing situations as he races his and of course the Pantera get together in Reno where many cars end up in his shop for repairs. It seems funny to me that the claims of more RPM's needed a newer, more technically advanced harmonic balancer but Larry's experience is exactly the opposite.

There was only one slight mention about a stock balancer in that lengthly post. I know, everyone has opinions based in experiences but why not use a stock balancer?

Dave
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Joined: July 21st, 2005, 12:13 am

September 2nd, 2011, 4:50 pm #2

Most of us guys like to tinker, so we like to try to make things better. There's nothing wrong with original Ford equipment when it's relatively new and in good condition.
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Joined: February 18th, 2011, 4:04 am

September 2nd, 2011, 7:51 pm #3

Don't mean to beat a dead horse but I'm curious. The decision to pull my engine a couple of weeks ago verses this fall was my harmonic balancer was spinning. I found this out when I replaced my old Mallory Distributor with Larry Stocks new setup and trying to time the car. After hearing some horror stories I thought it was best to bite the bullet and just get on with the rebuild. So.... I read every thread in the last post about harmonic balancers. ATI ATI and ATI. After a long hard conversation with Larry Stock, he would not put ANYTHING but an original Ford Balancer in any of his engines. Said he has personally seen three ATI's shear off at the crank. Most of us know Larry and he see's many Pantera's in a racing situations as he races his and of course the Pantera get together in Reno where many cars end up in his shop for repairs. It seems funny to me that the claims of more RPM's needed a newer, more technically advanced harmonic balancer but Larry's experience is exactly the opposite.

There was only one slight mention about a stock balancer in that lengthly post. I know, everyone has opinions based in experiences but why not use a stock balancer?

Dave
i've personally had two stock balancers have the outer ring slip.i finaly went with an aftermarket one problem solved.
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Joined: October 1st, 2004, 8:05 pm

September 3rd, 2011, 5:33 am #4

Don't mean to beat a dead horse but I'm curious. The decision to pull my engine a couple of weeks ago verses this fall was my harmonic balancer was spinning. I found this out when I replaced my old Mallory Distributor with Larry Stocks new setup and trying to time the car. After hearing some horror stories I thought it was best to bite the bullet and just get on with the rebuild. So.... I read every thread in the last post about harmonic balancers. ATI ATI and ATI. After a long hard conversation with Larry Stock, he would not put ANYTHING but an original Ford Balancer in any of his engines. Said he has personally seen three ATI's shear off at the crank. Most of us know Larry and he see's many Pantera's in a racing situations as he races his and of course the Pantera get together in Reno where many cars end up in his shop for repairs. It seems funny to me that the claims of more RPM's needed a newer, more technically advanced harmonic balancer but Larry's experience is exactly the opposite.

There was only one slight mention about a stock balancer in that lengthly post. I know, everyone has opinions based in experiences but why not use a stock balancer?

Dave
As far back as the 1970s we considered the M code & Q code dampers inadequate for high performance, they are basically 5000 rpm dampers. If you want to wind that motor out you'll want to beef up the damper to bolster the durability of the motor. In the 1970s we drove to a Ford dealership and ordered the R code (Boss 351) damper new from Ford. You don't have that option today.

Ford stopped manufacturing the 351C in 1974, and the 351M & 400 in 1982. Which means any Ford damper you may want to use is 3 to 4 decades old. The damper consists of an outer ring and an inner hub bonded to one another because each is bonded to a rubber ring between them. After 3 to 4 decades the bonds to that rubber ring are questionable. And when an outer ring comes loose it can come apart and cause damage and injury.

Those are the two reasons for replacing the OEM damper.

If Larry has you questioning the ATI damper, look into using a BHJ damper instead. #FO-EB351C-7 for external balance.
The BHJ damper is choice quality stuff.



-G
____________________________________________________________

Pantera Photos | 351C Historic Information | 351C Technical Information

If you use a 351C 4V powered vehicle for a grocery getter ... the eggs aren't going to make it home!
Last edited by gpence on September 3rd, 2011, 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 26th, 2002, 1:52 am

September 3rd, 2011, 3:32 pm #5

Don't mean to beat a dead horse but I'm curious. The decision to pull my engine a couple of weeks ago verses this fall was my harmonic balancer was spinning. I found this out when I replaced my old Mallory Distributor with Larry Stocks new setup and trying to time the car. After hearing some horror stories I thought it was best to bite the bullet and just get on with the rebuild. So.... I read every thread in the last post about harmonic balancers. ATI ATI and ATI. After a long hard conversation with Larry Stock, he would not put ANYTHING but an original Ford Balancer in any of his engines. Said he has personally seen three ATI's shear off at the crank. Most of us know Larry and he see's many Pantera's in a racing situations as he races his and of course the Pantera get together in Reno where many cars end up in his shop for repairs. It seems funny to me that the claims of more RPM's needed a newer, more technically advanced harmonic balancer but Larry's experience is exactly the opposite.

There was only one slight mention about a stock balancer in that lengthly post. I know, everyone has opinions based in experiences but why not use a stock balancer?

Dave
I wouldn't worry much about a couple broken ati's I've seen broken carrilo rods twisted mw 40 spline axles and every other thing .

like george said bhj makes an alternative and romac is good too.

back before these things were available and you could get boss 302 and boss 351 dampers that is what big time racers run .

Last thing anybody heard, was when I started screamin'....Catch me if you can
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Joined: June 14th, 2011, 10:13 pm

September 7th, 2011, 3:32 pm #6

As far back as the 1970s we considered the M code & Q code dampers inadequate for high performance, they are basically 5000 rpm dampers. If you want to wind that motor out you'll want to beef up the damper to bolster the durability of the motor. In the 1970s we drove to a Ford dealership and ordered the R code (Boss 351) damper new from Ford. You don't have that option today.

Ford stopped manufacturing the 351C in 1974, and the 351M & 400 in 1982. Which means any Ford damper you may want to use is 3 to 4 decades old. The damper consists of an outer ring and an inner hub bonded to one another because each is bonded to a rubber ring between them. After 3 to 4 decades the bonds to that rubber ring are questionable. And when an outer ring comes loose it can come apart and cause damage and injury.

Those are the two reasons for replacing the OEM damper.

If Larry has you questioning the ATI damper, look into using a BHJ damper instead. #FO-EB351C-7 for external balance.
The BHJ damper is choice quality stuff.



-G
____________________________________________________________

Pantera Photos | 351C Historic Information | 351C Technical Information

If you use a 351C 4V powered vehicle for a grocery getter ... the eggs aren't going to make it home!
Ok, I have to re-torte. Talking to Larry yesterday and apparently it was not three ATI's that he had witnessed. I had mentioned aftermarket ATI's in my original conversation with him but he was just talking aftermarket in general. So, it came down to "Don't use aftermarket Fluid type Harmonic Balancers" because he has seen three rip off the crank. I stand corrected and my apologies.

So I called BHJ yesterday. $511.00 smackers and let's just say I was warned about that guy from another engine person and sure enough..... That's all I'm going to say. I hung up and bought an ATI from Summit. I'm sure the quality of the BHJ is awesome but I'm not going to deal with a that!!!

Thanks all..... my cam, pistons, balancer, gasket kit and cam bearings from Meyer are all going to be here soon.

DT
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Joined: May 20th, 2005, 4:48 pm

September 7th, 2011, 4:33 pm #7



Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC






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Joined: October 1st, 2004, 8:05 pm

September 7th, 2011, 6:08 pm #8

Ok, I have to re-torte. Talking to Larry yesterday and apparently it was not three ATI's that he had witnessed. I had mentioned aftermarket ATI's in my original conversation with him but he was just talking aftermarket in general. So, it came down to "Don't use aftermarket Fluid type Harmonic Balancers" because he has seen three rip off the crank. I stand corrected and my apologies.

So I called BHJ yesterday. $511.00 smackers and let's just say I was warned about that guy from another engine person and sure enough..... That's all I'm going to say. I hung up and bought an ATI from Summit. I'm sure the quality of the BHJ is awesome but I'm not going to deal with a that!!!

Thanks all..... my cam, pistons, balancer, gasket kit and cam bearings from Meyer are all going to be here soon.

DT
I wouldn't put up with someone's crap or disrespect either Dave. I'm glad you took your business elsewhere.

Its great that Larry clarified his earlier statement. Larry is good people. The ATI damper will work well for you.

-G
____________________________________________________________

Pantera Photos | 351C Historic Information | 351C Technical Information

If you use a 351C 4V powered vehicle for a grocery getter ... the eggs aren't going to make it home!
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Joined: December 16th, 2003, 1:59 am

September 7th, 2011, 6:25 pm #9

when i saw the $511 number i thought 'that thing better zip me up & send me on my way'

i'm sure it's a very nice piece though

there'll be phantoms, there'll be fires on the road... and the white man dancing
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Joined: September 5th, 2006, 1:33 am

September 8th, 2011, 12:39 am #10

As far back as the 1970s we considered the M code & Q code dampers inadequate for high performance, they are basically 5000 rpm dampers. If you want to wind that motor out you'll want to beef up the damper to bolster the durability of the motor. In the 1970s we drove to a Ford dealership and ordered the R code (Boss 351) damper new from Ford. You don't have that option today.

Ford stopped manufacturing the 351C in 1974, and the 351M & 400 in 1982. Which means any Ford damper you may want to use is 3 to 4 decades old. The damper consists of an outer ring and an inner hub bonded to one another because each is bonded to a rubber ring between them. After 3 to 4 decades the bonds to that rubber ring are questionable. And when an outer ring comes loose it can come apart and cause damage and injury.

Those are the two reasons for replacing the OEM damper.

If Larry has you questioning the ATI damper, look into using a BHJ damper instead. #FO-EB351C-7 for external balance.
The BHJ damper is choice quality stuff.



-G
____________________________________________________________

Pantera Photos | 351C Historic Information | 351C Technical Information

If you use a 351C 4V powered vehicle for a grocery getter ... the eggs aren't going to make it home!


Holy moly, that's an old, esoteric album cover, George! Should feature in a trivia contest somewhere. I still have that album, by the bye.

A Visigoth explains the sack of Rome: We wanted art, literature...culture! We're sorry we broke some stuff.
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