Embarrassing Admissions

Embarrassing Admissions

Joined: October 1st, 2004, 8:05 pm

May 2nd, 2012, 8:22 pm #1

When I go out to the Pantera and twist the key, it starts right up and I drive away. Its very fast and very reliable. That has always made me happy.

My Pantera's motor is just a 351C with all factory castings. I don't have problems with crankshafts having couterweights that are too large, or alloy heads that eat the valve guides, roller lifters that fall apart, or poorly made Chinese stuff. It even has one of those defective Shelby intake manifolds on it. DOH!

Sure, the 351C in my Pantera doesn't burn rubber quite as easily as a 408, I have to get into the throttle just a little harder, but ya know, that little bit of extra traction actually helps my Pantera go faster. I feel kinda stupid ... I've lived decades believing going faster was what hot-rodding was all about. Now I find out its about burning rubber and building motors that idle like a race motor even though they aren't race motors and building motors that don't rev any higher than the factory motors. The 4V Cleveland cylinder head was designed as a high rpm cylinder head, I thought high rpm was something to aim for, now I learn its something to be avoided. Face Palm. I feel embarrassed to admit I actually enjoy revving my Pantera's 351C to 7000 rpm. Maybe my Pantera's motor needs a set of those restrictive 3V heads too!

Is the drama and headaches really that much fun that you actually spend extra money on these parts in order to experience all the trouble you have with them? Maybe its some higher form of religious expression. Maybe the Arabs who sleep on beds of nails, walk on burning charcoal and beat themselves with chains should consider building 408 Clevelands too?

Maybe I should buy a Torker manifold and 3310 Holley this afternoon and see what its all about.

-G
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Joined: May 20th, 2005, 4:48 pm

May 2nd, 2012, 8:24 pm #2



Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC






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Joined: May 22nd, 2007, 8:41 pm

May 2nd, 2012, 9:16 pm #3

Like most of us Old guys that grew up with Clevelands, George is using an intellectual tongue-in-cheek humor to characterize the mindset of all the late bloomers to the Cleveland. And I totally agree with him, because after all, there is nothing that can replicate the sound and feel of a 351 Cleveland at 7000 RPM's. No other engine, Fords included sounds like a Cleveland.

The Older I get......The faster I WAS!
Last edited by 70TooMach on May 2nd, 2012, 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 13th, 2006, 4:59 am

May 2nd, 2012, 11:07 pm #4

Ya he is right nothing wails like the c-motor at high note. As for 3310 George! Im old and its really not that big of a deal!When you can buy a carb for 50 bucks and spend another 20 for parts to make it work ?? Well you get the picture!
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Joined: July 21st, 2005, 12:13 am

May 2nd, 2012, 11:24 pm #5

Yeah - many of us are hot rodders and always want more. The original is great, but that doesn't stop us from trying to make it even better.
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Joined: August 17th, 2007, 12:27 pm

May 3rd, 2012, 12:24 am #6

Dont worry, some of us still have stock stroke clevelands. I took your advice a couple years ago and built a 7000 rpm cleveland that I drive every time I can and drag race as much as possible.
I have logged about 4000 trouble free miles on the solid flat tappet cam, and propelled my 3750 pound air conditioned convertible mustang to 8.1 in the 1/8 mile and 12.85 in the quarter. on premium pump gas. At least 100 trips down the track.



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Last edited by jorgem2 on May 3rd, 2012, 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 18th, 2005, 2:39 am

May 3rd, 2012, 12:50 am #7


Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC





George is just suffering from a weekend in Phoenix with over 50 Panteras. It gets a little crazy with all the engine combinations that are being used on those cars. It takes me a while to sort out all the information from one of those events and figure out what is good to do and what is questionable.
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Joined: October 1st, 2004, 8:05 pm

May 3rd, 2012, 1:12 am #8

Dont worry, some of us still have stock stroke clevelands. I took your advice a couple years ago and built a 7000 rpm cleveland that I drive every time I can and drag race as much as possible.
I have logged about 4000 trouble free miles on the solid flat tappet cam, and propelled my 3750 pound air conditioned convertible mustang to 8.1 in the 1/8 mile and 12.85 in the quarter. on premium pump gas. At least 100 trips down the track.



[/IMG]
n/m
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Joined: June 16th, 2004, 4:57 am

May 3rd, 2012, 1:49 am #9

When I go out to the Pantera and twist the key, it starts right up and I drive away. Its very fast and very reliable. That has always made me happy.

My Pantera's motor is just a 351C with all factory castings. I don't have problems with crankshafts having couterweights that are too large, or alloy heads that eat the valve guides, roller lifters that fall apart, or poorly made Chinese stuff. It even has one of those defective Shelby intake manifolds on it. DOH!

Sure, the 351C in my Pantera doesn't burn rubber quite as easily as a 408, I have to get into the throttle just a little harder, but ya know, that little bit of extra traction actually helps my Pantera go faster. I feel kinda stupid ... I've lived decades believing going faster was what hot-rodding was all about. Now I find out its about burning rubber and building motors that idle like a race motor even though they aren't race motors and building motors that don't rev any higher than the factory motors. The 4V Cleveland cylinder head was designed as a high rpm cylinder head, I thought high rpm was something to aim for, now I learn its something to be avoided. Face Palm. I feel embarrassed to admit I actually enjoy revving my Pantera's 351C to 7000 rpm. Maybe my Pantera's motor needs a set of those restrictive 3V heads too!

Is the drama and headaches really that much fun that you actually spend extra money on these parts in order to experience all the trouble you have with them? Maybe its some higher form of religious expression. Maybe the Arabs who sleep on beds of nails, walk on burning charcoal and beat themselves with chains should consider building 408 Clevelands too?

Maybe I should buy a Torker manifold and 3310 Holley this afternoon and see what its all about.

-G
<div>Funny thing about part of George's tongue-in-cheek 351-C vs a bigger/stroker engine rant is many years ago I used to always hear the Boss 302 guys say the <strong>exact same thing </strong>why their factory Boss 302 stuff was better than the bigger 351-C. (lol)</div>

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Joined: January 10th, 2002, 5:53 pm

May 3rd, 2012, 3:05 am #10

When I go out to the Pantera and twist the key, it starts right up and I drive away. Its very fast and very reliable. That has always made me happy.

My Pantera's motor is just a 351C with all factory castings. I don't have problems with crankshafts having couterweights that are too large, or alloy heads that eat the valve guides, roller lifters that fall apart, or poorly made Chinese stuff. It even has one of those defective Shelby intake manifolds on it. DOH!

Sure, the 351C in my Pantera doesn't burn rubber quite as easily as a 408, I have to get into the throttle just a little harder, but ya know, that little bit of extra traction actually helps my Pantera go faster. I feel kinda stupid ... I've lived decades believing going faster was what hot-rodding was all about. Now I find out its about burning rubber and building motors that idle like a race motor even though they aren't race motors and building motors that don't rev any higher than the factory motors. The 4V Cleveland cylinder head was designed as a high rpm cylinder head, I thought high rpm was something to aim for, now I learn its something to be avoided. Face Palm. I feel embarrassed to admit I actually enjoy revving my Pantera's 351C to 7000 rpm. Maybe my Pantera's motor needs a set of those restrictive 3V heads too!

Is the drama and headaches really that much fun that you actually spend extra money on these parts in order to experience all the trouble you have with them? Maybe its some higher form of religious expression. Maybe the Arabs who sleep on beds of nails, walk on burning charcoal and beat themselves with chains should consider building 408 Clevelands too?

Maybe I should buy a Torker manifold and 3310 Holley this afternoon and see what its all about.

-G
When I get a cut in the shop, I clean it with Berrymans and wrap it in a rag. Tried it on cold sores too - doesn't work. When I was a kid, I used to challenge friends with shots of cider vinegar. When my back itches, I get my wife to buff it with emory cloth. I have hit my finger with a hammer in the presence of children and not said a bad word.

So maybe it's only natural that the pieces for the next motor would be a leftover rebuilder 351W block, a long arm crank, some pistons that allow for a C head, those extra bare 4V closed chambers under the bench, an impulse eBay 351C tunnelram purchase, a pile of misc 650 DP Holley parts from years of swap meets, some kind of home brew spacer and all the other attendant one off pieces. No, never dealt with multiple carburation. Nah, I don't expect any problems....other than the obvious. Sure, I could run down to Tommy Vaughn Motors and pick up a 300 or 400HPish small block that would be in and running in less time than the 12 hours it took to go pick it up. Well - I say where's the fun in that. I do know it'll be fun to puzzle it all out and talk about it here, then eventually romp on down the road with it. It's all good! Enjoy your ride George, be thankful for it and the time to spend in it.

1967 Falcon 4 door 351C-4V
1970 Mustang 351C-2V
http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod
Owner built, owner abused.
Last edited by Falcon67 on May 3rd, 2012, 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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