Clutch Help

Clutch Help

Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 4:58 pm

July 14th, 2011, 4:43 pm #1

Have a mild built 4V 351C with a 4 speed toploader. I use it for cruising around in the desert, rock crawling, dunes and daily driving. What clutch should I run in it? Centerforce seems to be around double the cost but claims 60% better holding power.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTF-D ... refilter=1


I also need to rebuild the 4 speed toploader. Never done before, I am better off having it done? Was thinking about buying a kit and a book and trying to do it myself. $$ is tight.

Where is a good place to order a rebuild kit? David Kee? Maybe I should inspect gears before I order?

Thanks in advance

Last edited by 68Bronco on July 14th, 2011, 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 9th, 2010, 9:16 pm

July 14th, 2011, 6:48 pm #2

Never used Centerforce so I cannot comment on the quality, however I have utilized a Mcleod Clutch and like the quality.

As for the toploader rebuild, Mark ahttp://www.toploaderheaven.com/ has everything you will need to work on it. You can purchase a cd and tool kit that has a breakdown of the entire transmission along with step by step instructions for disassembly/reassembly while the tool kit contains some specialized pieces to make the process easier.

I hope this helps,



~Corey
Last edited by jredline1984 on July 14th, 2011, 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: June 12th, 2009, 1:31 pm

July 15th, 2011, 2:17 am #3

Have a mild built 4V 351C with a 4 speed toploader. I use it for cruising around in the desert, rock crawling, dunes and daily driving. What clutch should I run in it? Centerforce seems to be around double the cost but claims 60% better holding power.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTF-D ... refilter=1


I also need to rebuild the 4 speed toploader. Never done before, I am better off having it done? Was thinking about buying a kit and a book and trying to do it myself. $$ is tight.

Where is a good place to order a rebuild kit? David Kee? Maybe I should inspect gears before I order?

Thanks in advance
http://www.b2motorsportsllc.com/mainpage.htm
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Joined: April 30th, 2005, 7:32 am

July 16th, 2011, 3:04 am #4

Have a mild built 4V 351C with a 4 speed toploader. I use it for cruising around in the desert, rock crawling, dunes and daily driving. What clutch should I run in it? Centerforce seems to be around double the cost but claims 60% better holding power.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTF-D ... refilter=1


I also need to rebuild the 4 speed toploader. Never done before, I am better off having it done? Was thinking about buying a kit and a book and trying to do it myself. $$ is tight.

Where is a good place to order a rebuild kit? David Kee? Maybe I should inspect gears before I order?

Thanks in advance
The way they design clutches is to use rpm to help it hold the horsepower. At rockcrawling rpm I don't think it will help. I don't think a toploader is your best bet for that application either come to think of it. If thats what you have a good stock 11inch 3 finger long style clutch will be more than enough.
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Joined: May 20th, 2005, 4:48 pm

July 16th, 2011, 11:30 pm #5

Have a mild built 4V 351C with a 4 speed toploader. I use it for cruising around in the desert, rock crawling, dunes and daily driving. What clutch should I run in it? Centerforce seems to be around double the cost but claims 60% better holding power.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTF-D ... refilter=1


I also need to rebuild the 4 speed toploader. Never done before, I am better off having it done? Was thinking about buying a kit and a book and trying to do it myself. $$ is tight.

Where is a good place to order a rebuild kit? David Kee? Maybe I should inspect gears before I order?

Thanks in advance
I may ruffle some feathers here, but my advice is to stay away from Centerforce whenever possible. I should make a log of the calls I get from Centerforce customers complaining.

What it boils down to is that they use an OEM pressure plate (mainly from Luc or Valeo), then add their "counterweights". Those counterweights give all kinds of trouble and the issues vary from car to car. Sometimes the counterweights are such that they require an insane amount of rpm to function. Other times, they cause premature engagement.

In either case, a lot of guys end up removing the counterweights, which just puts it back to an OEM static pressure. In my opinion, if a guy has a Centerforce clutch and it's working, then a stock replacement clutch would work just as well.

There are a lot better choices out there for a dependable clutch kit and most are much cheaper than Centerforce. RAM & Mcleod make some great clutches and if you're under 450hp and have a small input Toploader, you can get a complete kit from RAM (including plate, disc, bearing, alignment tool) for $280.

As for the Toploader rebuild, anyone can rebuild a Toploader if you have a few tools. You can do it without a bearing press, but you will need some good brass punches or some bearing drivers, in addition to a good set of snap ring pliers and some patience.

My advice here would be to take a good look at the gears first to see what you'll need. Most Toploaders will need a few gears replaced as the synchronizer engagement teeth get blunt. If you don't need gears, a good quality rebuild kit will run about $100 and will come with everything that you need.

Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC






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Joined: July 26th, 2002, 1:52 am

July 16th, 2011, 11:34 pm #6

I also use the skf high load bearings in my toploader rebuilds , david kee sells them .

that's right man we got mills that'll blow that heap of yours right off the road .
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Joined: October 1st, 2004, 8:05 pm

July 17th, 2011, 12:29 am #7

I may ruffle some feathers here, but my advice is to stay away from Centerforce whenever possible. I should make a log of the calls I get from Centerforce customers complaining.

What it boils down to is that they use an OEM pressure plate (mainly from Luc or Valeo), then add their "counterweights". Those counterweights give all kinds of trouble and the issues vary from car to car. Sometimes the counterweights are such that they require an insane amount of rpm to function. Other times, they cause premature engagement.

In either case, a lot of guys end up removing the counterweights, which just puts it back to an OEM static pressure. In my opinion, if a guy has a Centerforce clutch and it's working, then a stock replacement clutch would work just as well.

There are a lot better choices out there for a dependable clutch kit and most are much cheaper than Centerforce. RAM & Mcleod make some great clutches and if you're under 450hp and have a small input Toploader, you can get a complete kit from RAM (including plate, disc, bearing, alignment tool) for $280.

As for the Toploader rebuild, anyone can rebuild a Toploader if you have a few tools. You can do it without a bearing press, but you will need some good brass punches or some bearing drivers, in addition to a good set of snap ring pliers and some patience.

My advice here would be to take a good look at the gears first to see what you'll need. Most Toploaders will need a few gears replaced as the synchronizer engagement teeth get blunt. If you don't need gears, a good quality rebuild kit will run about $100 and will come with everything that you need.

Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC





Pantera owners have trouble with the Centerforce clutch too.

Lots of positive feedback for the McLeod & Hayes long style clutches.

-G
____________________________________________________________

Pantera Photos | 351C Historic Information | 351C Technical Information

If you use a 351C 4V powered vehicle for a grocery getter ... the eggs aren't going to make it home!
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Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 4:58 pm

July 17th, 2011, 7:18 am #8

I may ruffle some feathers here, but my advice is to stay away from Centerforce whenever possible. I should make a log of the calls I get from Centerforce customers complaining.

What it boils down to is that they use an OEM pressure plate (mainly from Luc or Valeo), then add their "counterweights". Those counterweights give all kinds of trouble and the issues vary from car to car. Sometimes the counterweights are such that they require an insane amount of rpm to function. Other times, they cause premature engagement.

In either case, a lot of guys end up removing the counterweights, which just puts it back to an OEM static pressure. In my opinion, if a guy has a Centerforce clutch and it's working, then a stock replacement clutch would work just as well.

There are a lot better choices out there for a dependable clutch kit and most are much cheaper than Centerforce. RAM & Mcleod make some great clutches and if you're under 450hp and have a small input Toploader, you can get a complete kit from RAM (including plate, disc, bearing, alignment tool) for $280.

As for the Toploader rebuild, anyone can rebuild a Toploader if you have a few tools. You can do it without a bearing press, but you will need some good brass punches or some bearing drivers, in addition to a good set of snap ring pliers and some patience.

My advice here would be to take a good look at the gears first to see what you'll need. Most Toploaders will need a few gears replaced as the synchronizer engagement teeth get blunt. If you don't need gears, a good quality rebuild kit will run about $100 and will come with everything that you need.

Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC





Maybe just get a Ram then. it had a stock looking three finger style in it that worked great till it burned out.

Get new bearings? Maybe the road race rebuild kit?

http://4speedtoploaders.com/shopsite_sc ... dkits.html
Last edited by 68Bronco on July 17th, 2011, 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: May 20th, 2005, 4:48 pm

July 17th, 2011, 11:29 am #9

For what you're doing, they're not necessary, but if you want to spend the extra money, it would be a good investment.

As for the clutch, yes, I would go with the RAM. 11" Long. An HDX series will hold enough power for you (they're rated for 450hp), but doesn't have a killer clutch pedal or a chattering disc. If I can help you in any way, let me know. I'll beat anyone's prices...

Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC






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Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 4:58 pm

July 18th, 2011, 6:49 pm #10

I may ruffle some feathers here, but my advice is to stay away from Centerforce whenever possible. I should make a log of the calls I get from Centerforce customers complaining.

What it boils down to is that they use an OEM pressure plate (mainly from Luc or Valeo), then add their "counterweights". Those counterweights give all kinds of trouble and the issues vary from car to car. Sometimes the counterweights are such that they require an insane amount of rpm to function. Other times, they cause premature engagement.

In either case, a lot of guys end up removing the counterweights, which just puts it back to an OEM static pressure. In my opinion, if a guy has a Centerforce clutch and it's working, then a stock replacement clutch would work just as well.

There are a lot better choices out there for a dependable clutch kit and most are much cheaper than Centerforce. RAM & Mcleod make some great clutches and if you're under 450hp and have a small input Toploader, you can get a complete kit from RAM (including plate, disc, bearing, alignment tool) for $280.

As for the Toploader rebuild, anyone can rebuild a Toploader if you have a few tools. You can do it without a bearing press, but you will need some good brass punches or some bearing drivers, in addition to a good set of snap ring pliers and some patience.

My advice here would be to take a good look at the gears first to see what you'll need. Most Toploaders will need a few gears replaced as the synchronizer engagement teeth get blunt. If you don't need gears, a good quality rebuild kit will run about $100 and will come with everything that you need.

Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC





RAM HDX Long

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RAM-88769HDX/

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