Cleveland project puzzle help sought

Cleveland project puzzle help sought

Joined: August 23rd, 2011, 3:39 pm

August 23rd, 2011, 3:39 pm #1

Hi there, thanks for letting me post some questions. I just collected an early 351C shortblock from a friend. Standard, 9J something casting dates. It was a factory four speed Ranchero that burned propane.
Not sure if it is worth thinking about std size pistons just to maintain cyl walls?
Here is what I have, and roughly where Im going with it-
Open Chamber 4V heads, matching TRW popups on stock rods, Crower stainless steel rockers, Moroso front sump pan (if it clears the headers), and various parts and pieces short of cam lifters springs and retainers. and carbs. The only intake I have for it is an odd piece I wanted to get opinions on, and also some recommends on cam mfg and profiles. Seems like I want a BIG roller, something short of being brutal on parts or unreliable in the long run, hopefully?
I know, I know.
But if you can see what I want here, and have some polite suggestions, maybe someone knows something about my intake? Im not even sure its useable, Id like to mock it up to a clean longblock.
Hopefully I can get some pictures in here too. Lets find out.
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Joined: December 16th, 2003, 1:59 am

August 23rd, 2011, 5:18 pm #2

having been running propane the cylinders may not have any wear at all on them due to no fuel wash-down near the top

there'll be phantoms, there'll be fires on the road... and the white man dancing
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Joined: May 20th, 2005, 4:48 pm

August 23rd, 2011, 5:59 pm #3

Hi there, thanks for letting me post some questions. I just collected an early 351C shortblock from a friend. Standard, 9J something casting dates. It was a factory four speed Ranchero that burned propane.
Not sure if it is worth thinking about std size pistons just to maintain cyl walls?
Here is what I have, and roughly where Im going with it-
Open Chamber 4V heads, matching TRW popups on stock rods, Crower stainless steel rockers, Moroso front sump pan (if it clears the headers), and various parts and pieces short of cam lifters springs and retainers. and carbs. The only intake I have for it is an odd piece I wanted to get opinions on, and also some recommends on cam mfg and profiles. Seems like I want a BIG roller, something short of being brutal on parts or unreliable in the long run, hopefully?
I know, I know.
But if you can see what I want here, and have some polite suggestions, maybe someone knows something about my intake? Im not even sure its useable, Id like to mock it up to a clean longblock.
Hopefully I can get some pictures in here too. Lets find out.
The biggest mistake to be made is to not build the engine for the application. Is this going to be a cruiser, race car, or something to park at a car show?

The intake looks like a Weiand piece, but also looks like it's had some welding done on it. Tunnel rams are good for race cars, but on a small engine like a 351, especially with 4V heads, you're looking at a soggy bottom end for a hp/tq curve.

Just depends on what you're wanting to do with it. All show and no go is just that....and an engine that's built for the application makes all the difference in the world.

Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC






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Joined: February 3rd, 2003, 5:22 pm

August 23rd, 2011, 6:09 pm #4

it looks like a heavily modified Weiand or maybe Edel-B's UR series, set now for dual 4500's. It appears by the horizontal welding on the runners that there was an attempt to enlarge the passages for more airflow. Heck, today the 4500 carbs alone would cost about $1,650-$1,750 new, less throttle linkage. If you must have the t-ram look, one would be better off for driveability with a new Weiand tunnel ram, for about $450, plus a pair of good used smaller cfm 4150 Holleys which are much more plentiful and a heck of a lot cheaper.
Last edited by machoneman on August 23rd, 2011, 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 23rd, 2011, 3:39 pm

August 23rd, 2011, 7:16 pm #5

Having been watching for a UR19 years ago, this is what I found. Looks a good bit like the Roush modified UR-19 shown in May 1977 Hot Rod, only with straighter runners than shown in their example.
Its a pretty sweet period piece, and I would be inclined to find some OLD Dominators for it,
IF any of this junk turns out useable. Greasy Standard shortblock is now actually +030 .010... dangit.
Assuming this intake is useable (my concern being squareness and seal) then its a high rpm application, IF the stainless rockers can work at 7800 ish RPM's with whatever measures... I do have some nice narrow stem Manley SD valves, hiport exhaust plates, Hooker Boss 302 headers(?) that worked in a 351C cougar...
Likely a C5 stubby trans behind it, probably a midsize wagon body, depending on how things shake out.
IDEALLY, it would end up with a 4 speed in my 65 Mustang coupe, but thats only if it became practical (muy idea of practical, anyway). If it were more go than show, I could really put some rubber under my 66 Villager, and the headers I have might just fit. Im going to have to do a lot of mocking up to decide which car. Ive heard 351w in a 65 Mustang is more hassle than a 351C. One or the other, most likely
First thing is to clean the block, check the cyls for straightness, if theres a chance maybe have it honed to my old (unused mounted on reconned rods w/rings...)trw popups. really sounding sketchy now, but Im sure there are always options. A 377 stroker sounds neat, but I bet its the least practical.
Camshaft availability and mfg recs will matter most. A big chance I would slop this thing together just to see what RPM windows it.
Last edited by lowriser on August 23rd, 2011, 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 23rd, 2011, 3:39 pm

August 23rd, 2011, 7:33 pm #6

The biggest mistake to be made is to not build the engine for the application. Is this going to be a cruiser, race car, or something to park at a car show?

The intake looks like a Weiand piece, but also looks like it's had some welding done on it. Tunnel rams are good for race cars, but on a small engine like a 351, especially with 4V heads, you're looking at a soggy bottom end for a hp/tq curve.

Just depends on what you're wanting to do with it. All show and no go is just that....and an engine that's built for the application makes all the difference in the world.

Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC





Its a long trip to the nearest drag strip, so it wouldnt be much fun if I couldnt drive it around the block or to local events. I have a pretty high tolerance for radical, and most folks stop far short of what I consider sensible, almost especially with Clevelands. This could be the ultimate no budget throwaway experiment, or it could be a really nice period type buildup that would see my first car through the rest of our life.
Not a fuel injected, air conditioned loafer, or a high tech retro modern compromise.
Shrill, scary, different and hard to beat, thats what I like. Noclass racing.
I hope that covers the main parameters.
thanks for your help and input.
big time.











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Joined: May 20th, 2005, 4:48 pm

August 23rd, 2011, 7:35 pm #7

Having been watching for a UR19 years ago, this is what I found. Looks a good bit like the Roush modified UR-19 shown in May 1977 Hot Rod, only with straighter runners than shown in their example.
Its a pretty sweet period piece, and I would be inclined to find some OLD Dominators for it,
IF any of this junk turns out useable. Greasy Standard shortblock is now actually +030 .010... dangit.
Assuming this intake is useable (my concern being squareness and seal) then its a high rpm application, IF the stainless rockers can work at 7800 ish RPM's with whatever measures... I do have some nice narrow stem Manley SD valves, hiport exhaust plates, Hooker Boss 302 headers(?) that worked in a 351C cougar...
Likely a C5 stubby trans behind it, probably a midsize wagon body, depending on how things shake out.
IDEALLY, it would end up with a 4 speed in my 65 Mustang coupe, but thats only if it became practical (muy idea of practical, anyway). If it were more go than show, I could really put some rubber under my 66 Villager, and the headers I have might just fit. Im going to have to do a lot of mocking up to decide which car. Ive heard 351w in a 65 Mustang is more hassle than a 351C. One or the other, most likely
First thing is to clean the block, check the cyls for straightness, if theres a chance maybe have it honed to my old (unused mounted on reconned rods w/rings...)trw popups. really sounding sketchy now, but Im sure there are always options. A 377 stroker sounds neat, but I bet its the least practical.
Camshaft availability and mfg recs will matter most. A big chance I would slop this thing together just to see what RPM windows it.
...then the camshafts are certainly available. Solid rollers are available, mild to wild. Comp's street roller grinds would be nice and would be easier on the valvetrain, but if you're aiming for 7500, then being easy on the valvetrain isn't really a priority...LOL I can have a custom cam ground for you that would work in any application that you decide on. I use custom Comp sticks for some of my street engines and all of my race stuff.

The 377 is certainly a cost effective route. There's a good chance that your crank will need reconditioned anyway, might as well have it offset ground and gain some cubes. A 377 will still hit the revs really easy and you'd be gaining some horsepower and torque to boot.

Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC






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Joined: August 23rd, 2011, 3:39 pm

August 23rd, 2011, 8:57 pm #8

Closer to full race than street, especially by most definitions.
Im not sure if 7800 rpm and stainless stud mount rockers is reasonable.
If this block checks out (what I would call a miracle) then we can see what fits together.
thanks again!
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Joined: May 20th, 2005, 4:48 pm

August 24th, 2011, 12:16 am #9

...and at that rpm level, you will need a stud girdle.



Brent Lykins
B2 Motorsports, LLC






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Joined: December 16th, 2003, 1:59 am

August 24th, 2011, 8:01 am #10

Hi there, thanks for letting me post some questions. I just collected an early 351C shortblock from a friend. Standard, 9J something casting dates. It was a factory four speed Ranchero that burned propane.
Not sure if it is worth thinking about std size pistons just to maintain cyl walls?
Here is what I have, and roughly where Im going with it-
Open Chamber 4V heads, matching TRW popups on stock rods, Crower stainless steel rockers, Moroso front sump pan (if it clears the headers), and various parts and pieces short of cam lifters springs and retainers. and carbs. The only intake I have for it is an odd piece I wanted to get opinions on, and also some recommends on cam mfg and profiles. Seems like I want a BIG roller, something short of being brutal on parts or unreliable in the long run, hopefully?
I know, I know.
But if you can see what I want here, and have some polite suggestions, maybe someone knows something about my intake? Im not even sure its useable, Id like to mock it up to a clean longblock.
Hopefully I can get some pictures in here too. Lets find out.
it looks like there's enough meat around the holes to drill & tap a 4150 pattern...

here's a nifty deal on 450's
http://tinyurl.com/450-tunnel-ram-carbs


there'll be phantoms, there'll be fires on the road... and the white man dancing
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